IRS loses challenge to prove tax liability

this lawyer may just have an *accident* interesting story to follow

and twitchy good post, maybe subconsciously people understand this and it gives them more of a reason to seem ignorant (they may be safer that way)

Originally posted by ledbedder20
This is great! But a ruling form a higher court would really help the cause.

Maybe like a Federal Judge? Never happen they are part of the system. All these cases like this just get brushed under the rug so to speak.

Although there is no statue dictating that income tax are to be paid, there is common law supporting it. From what I gather its been tested at the supreme level and the evidence such as an insufficient number of States agreeing to the income tax was all presented and judge deemed it irrelevant. Therefore this whole "there is no law" BS argument is simply that, BS.

Originally posted by shots
however no matter what people do there is no way out of taxation by the government in one form or another as much as we all hate it. All they will do is start new tax and give it a new name, which means they still get the money the want and in some cases need.

My first thoughts after reading the OP was, "Hope in one and and .... in the other. See which fills up faster." But, I decided to go with a more supportive response.

I have to admit, I think this is the case. Corporate America is great at shifting around ideas, money, debts, information and just about everything else that saturates their industry. And they should be – they learned from the best ... our government. If the Federal Income Tax is lifted, whether by the abolishment of the IRS or whatever means, taxes will be adjusted by state and local institutions.

I, for one, don't mind paying taxes. I love our schools and roads. It's just the ones that were never meant to be — the illegal taxes that really chap my @ss. Glad to see them take a loss, but it's nothing to get too excited over.

Originally posted by Crakeur
but that would also mean my fees would be fixed and all your salaries and other fees would be fixed and that would/could destroy commerce as we know it.

Uuummmm. Reminiscent of Communism.

I like most other people in the US would like to keep my hard earned money in my pocket, there is A but.
The but is if I do that then can I cant bitch when a foreign nation sets there sights on taking over? and the army doesnt lift a finger because there is'nt and army. I Cant bitch when my house is burning down and the firemen don't come.
When that neighbor hood thug steals what Is mine. Ive kept my tax money and not paid the police to get my stuff back. So think about this. If you don't pay taxes don't use the public services. its simple and basic. Taxes fund our Right to pursue happiness. Delude your self if you like but the facts are the facts.

All Cryer got was a "Stay Out Of Jail" card from the jury because he convinced the jury he actually believes his BS. The verdict has nothing to do with the evidence presented, per se.

He still has to pay.

He will lose his civil trial.

If he tries this again he goes to prison.

Settle down everyone.

Originally posted by IAttackPeople
All Cryer got was a "Stay Out Of Jail" card from the jury because he convinced the jury he actually believes his BS. The verdict has nothing to do with the evidence presented, per se.

He still has to pay.

He will lose his civil trial.

If he tries this again he goes to prison.

Settle down everyone.

Lulz, just by using the word "BS" and using the specific structure in your post, you are instantly provoking people to start an argument that will last for pages and pages. I probably will not be able to stop it, but whatever.

*waits to see how other people handle your comments*

Originally posted by twitchy
...
The more this becomes public knowlege, the greater the perceived threat is to the establishment, and the establishment is hardly above violence and subversion to perpetuate their own power. It seems to me that any time in western history that a people has figured out and resisted what was really going on with the whole concept of finance, it has gotten ugly for them.

To quote Thomas Jeferson:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure. "

Just sayin'....

Pretty cool. I went and watched all 4 segments on Youtube and I'll probably check the "memorandum" out. The bottom line is that if you thought the response was bad and unacceptable for New Orleans when Katrina hit, imagine what it would have been like if nobody was paying their taxes. Our taxes fund alot of programs, non-regulatory or not, and without them our Federal Gov't couldn't operate.

I also would like to note that he(Tom Cryer) doesn't mention anything about local, and state taxes and the laws concerning those authorities. I believe him and think there is no law that quantifies "taxable income".

Originally posted by twitchy
One thing that gives me the willies about all this is the fact that once people start figuring out the income tax scam, they might start figuring out other stuff as well like the federal reserve system. Yes of course this knowlege is a good thing, but it seems like it would be similar to trying to jerk a honey jar out of a bears paws. That's one big fat old grouchy bear that isn't going to like it.

That is why I'm throwing every extra cent into gold...and I'm NOT stashing it in bank vault box.

Originally posted by TheBorg

Originally posted by mecheng

Originally posted by SonicInfinity
I don't believe that's possible. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we prevented from suing the IRS, since they're not considered an entity? For example, one cannot sue the Congress because they are not an entity in the same regards that a naturalized citizen is.

I hope this is correct, as it's been several years since I had this conversation in a Constitutional class.

TheBorg

I was under the understanding that the IRS is not a government agency but a corporation based out of Puerto Rico? did I dream that?

I knew I had seen that somewhere, here is the link:

www.supremelaw.org...

edited to add link.

[edit on 27-7-2007 by darkheartrising]

Originally posted by ledbedder20

I agree that maybe we would be better off if America wasn't as rich, but as someone stated in an earlier post, it's ognna be pretty hard to get those in power to give it up.

C'ome on, I'm sure you realize that America isn't rich, we are in debt to the Federal Reserve, they're the rich ones....and they're British!

sorry for the back to back posts but I'm fired up!

Originally posted by Thunder15
The bottom line is that if you thought the response was bad and unacceptable for New Orleans when Katrina hit, imagine what it would have been like if nobody was paying their taxes. Our taxes fund alot of programs, non-regulatory or not, and without them our Federal Gov't couldn't operate.

There was a time when each state operated individually, there seems to be a common concensus that we NEED the Federal Government, this is the kind of mentalityt that gave rise to the Democrat party's way of thinking of a "welfare state" like we need Big Brother to "take care" of U.S.

What we NEED is a smaller Fed. Gov. and if abolishing the illegal IRS then maybe this will happen..

(ok, this is my last one for a while, I'll shut up and get some popcorn ready...carry on)

I think many people here are misunderstanding what this is about.

It's not about NOT paying taxes. It's about not paying a Federal Income Tax.

There was never meant to be a Federal Income Tax. It's something that was enacted nearly a century ago. Our government functioned fine without a Federal Income tax long before it was exacted and it'll functioned fine after it is gone.

I don't think anyone here is "bitching" about paying State and Local Taxes. State and Local taxes is what makes our country run. The Federal Income Tax makes up the majority of our Military spending. Don't get me wrong, I think we should have a separate tax for Defense. But I, for one, do not enjoy paying for our government to sponsor Invasion and Occupation campaigns overseas or rouge regimes that topple democratic governments in third world countries.

That's where your Federal Income Tax is going and that's what this OP is about.

Originally posted by angryamerican
So think about this. If you don't pay taxes don't use the public services. its simple and basic. Taxes fund our Right to pursue happiness. Delude your self if you like but the facts are the facts.

I agree with angryamerican. Nobody likes taxes, but if we want to live in a society with social security, pension, schools, hospitals, roads etc. etc. we are all going to have to chip in! This is the concept of socialist democracy. You put a little into the pool, and when the time comes that you need help there will be resources in the pool to draw from.

The problem as I see it is the ever increasing individualism and privatization of just about every state institution. The way the US wants global economy to work is by eliminating any state control and put everyting on the so called "free market". This works well for the rich who can afford to buy all the services they need, but for the poor - and increasingly for the average joe - the cost will be too great.

You have this problem already: If you get hurt and end up in hospital and don't have medical insurance they can send you away without treatment. There is no safetynet in this kind of capitalism. If you can't afford to pay ever increasing prices for services that should have been guaranteed to you by the state, you become the loser and you are on your own. There is no "economical gain" in helping the unfortunate in this kind of system...

So I think it would be better to change how the money from taxes are used, rather than trying to abolish them alltogether.


Edit: Man that was some lousy spelling! Corrected some of it...

[edit on 27-7-2007 by DrLeary]

Originally posted by ledbedder20
BUT, if income tax was abolished, our government, structured the way it is currently, would collapse.

I thougt I read that our federal income tax is used to pay off the national debt (sorry I don't have time to read all of this) Why an Income Tax is Not Necessary to Fund the U.S. Government

Sick of Fed Income Tax... vote for Ron Paul! Debt and Taxes

Here's a good thread on the Fed...The FED is a serious scam. When is something going to be done about it?

Originally posted by TheBorgI don't believe that's possible. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we prevented from suing the IRS, since they're not considered an entity?

Talk about a scam!!! They take your money illegally, provide you with no law what so ever that forces you to pay them, and to top it all you can't even sue them in court! Genius, pure genius. And us suckers just keep on paying, and paying, and paying.

A couple more thoughts...
1) Didn't this country start in part because we were sick of paying taxes. Ever hear of the Boston Tea Party?
2) If everyone asked their employer to not withhold their income tax and instead, pay it at the end of the year... there would be a much greater outcry and demand that something be done. But since they take money out each month before you get your paycheck, most people don't realize how much that total REALLY is.
3) The system is set up for the rich to skirt paying their fair share. It is set up to be so complicated that the average person has no idea of the loopholes to get out of paying like the rich do.

You should all read this... 31 Questions and Answers about the IRS

The IRS is not an organization within the United States Department of the Treasury.

When all the evidence is examined objectively, IRS appears to be a money laundry, extortion racket, and conspiracy to engage in a pattern of racketeering activity, in violation of 18 U.S.C. 1951 and 1961 et seq. (“RICO”).

After much diligent research, several investigators have concluded that there is no known Act of Congress, nor any Executive Order, giving IRS lawful jurisdiction to operate within any of the 50 States of the Union.

There is much more...

[edit on 27-7-2007 by mecheng]

[edit on 27-7-2007 by mecheng]

Originally posted by angryamerican
The but is if I do that then can I cant bitch when a foreign nation sets there sights on taking over? and the army doesnt lift a finger because there is'nt and army.

The armed forces could still be maintained through state militias to rpotect the continental USA. what your taxes pay for at the moment is for the US armed forces to pursue actions abroad for economic reasons, driven by corporate greed and power.

I Cant bitch when my house is burning down and the firemen don't come.

Again, this would be funded from local / state taxes.

Taxes fund our Right to pursue happiness. Delude your self if you like but the facts are the facts.

No, taxes do NOT fund your right to pursue happiness. Your taxes are there to enable the government to walk all over you and demand that you comply with their wishes.

Big government needs Big money. The bigger it becomes the bigger the amount of money. The biggest winners are the corporate boys who lobby / pay for political favours to use your tax money to their own benefit.

Originally posted by mecheng

Originally posted by ledbedder20
You should all read this... 31 Questions and Answers about the IRS

Uh..yeah...I put that link in my post above....thanks for reading it.

Originally posted by darkheartrisingUh..yeah...I put that link in my post above....thanks for reading it.

Uh... yeah... it was good. There's more there than just why the IRS can't be sued. That's why I suggested that everyone read it... thanks for posting it

[edit on 27-7-2007 by mecheng]

I am glad you posted this because many people have no idea what taxes pays what and the differences between the taxes.

Thanks for schooling the people that have no clue.

Originally posted by tyranny22
I think many people here are misunderstanding what this is about.

It's not about NOT paying taxes. It's about not paying a Federal Income Tax.

There was never meant to be a Federal Income Tax. It's something that was enacted nearly a century ago. Our government functioned fine without a Federal Income tax long before it was exacted and it'll functioned fine after it is gone.

I don't think anyone here is "bitching" about paying State and Local Taxes. State and Local taxes is what makes our country run. The Federal Income Tax makes up the majority of our Military spending. Don't get me wrong, I think we should have a separate tax for Defense. But I, for one, do not enjoy paying for our government to sponsor Invasion and Occupation campaigns overseas or rouge regimes that topple democratic governments in third world countries.

That's where your Federal Income Tax is going and that's what this OP is about.