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Mass Sell Off across the World

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posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 05:24 PM

Originally posted by St Udio
The property tax, or millage rates are gonna skyrocket

St Udio, is there evidence for this you can explain in layman's term? or is this a self-evident or foregone conclusion? (You can probably tell from this and previous posts I'm not very savvy about financial matters.)

posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 03:45 AM
Hi Yuefo,

I just wrote a long article for you, and lost it just before posting, grrr.

In a nutshell then:

Youy and average Joe are in the same situation, both do the same job, earn the same, both have 50K saved as a nestegg. Average Joe buys a house now, and feels good. You rent now, and save or invest the 50K. You have nothing (except 50K available at any time), average Joe has a house! He must be doing better than you, why didn't you buy a house you think.

Then the market corrects. Money leaves the marketplace, jobs disappear as a result as companies try to keep profit levels up or losses to a minimum, reducing moneyflow in the public sector. This creates less demand, especially for bigger investments like cars and houses and such. Demand drops, therefore prices drop, and because some people lose their jobs and have to sell to prevent foreclosure, house prices drop even more.

Meanwhile, cost of living goes up as inflation tries to counter what has happened in the marketplace. So, let's stop here and look at where you and Average Joe are 12 months down the track.

You have both miraculously managed to keep your jobs, so you have a fixed income. Good news. Average Joe's house is worth 50K less, and therefore in reality he has nothing but a mortgage to pay for a house that is 0% his own). He is committed and may as well be renting.

You on the other hand have been renting, and now that the house prices have gone down, you can use your 50K to purchase that home, and because the price is lower, have a smaller mortgage to pay off. You may actually end up buying Average Joe's home.

In a bad situation where say both of you lose your job, Average Joe's situation gets even worse, and you are glad you have that 50K available for you during this time between jobs (which may be some time).

So who has less worries overall? You do, and why? Because you rented now instead of purchasing.

So what is the moral of the story? It is not what you do, but when you do it that determines your fate.

Of course I am presenting this from a macro perspective, and peoples individual situation may cause above example to vary or differ, but it does hold a sense of logic that may be worth a thought or two.....

Would it help if I said that I am renting now too. I don't need to, but I would rather do that and protect the money I have worked so hard for, than let it disappear into thin air because of a market factor I have no control over?

Owning a house makes us feel something that renting does not give us, I admit, but it is not always associated as much with independence and financial security as we would like to think.

Best wishes

posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 05:27 AM
well, the markets open up again tomorrow...

interesting to see if the fears are still there. some reckon the next few weeks are going to be up and down.

the Chinese market is expected to hit another correction, which could trigger another sell off

posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 05:21 PM

Fears of fresh stock market falls

It is feared that Asian and European shares could fall further on Monday after New York's Dow Jones Industrial Average fell 208 points on Friday.

The Dow had its biggest weekly fall since March 2003 after banks involved in big buyouts failed to find buyers for $20bn (£9.8bn) worth of debt.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

oh dear. expect some my drama to come.

[edit on 29-7-2007 by infinite]

[edit on 29-7-2007 by infinite]

posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 07:09 PM
Tokyo's been open for 8 minutes and it's already down 200 points.

It appears there's also some political turmoil over there putting pressure on the Japanese markets.

[edit on 7/29/2007 by djohnsto77]

posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 02:11 AM
Hi Infinite, thanks for your posts, much appreciated.

Fortunately last weeks action will not keep going for too long this week, but the Dow has peaked, mark my words. The reason why it will not dive into the abyss is because there is still about 5 trillion in US Dollars (whether securities, cash as part of the countries' exchange portfolio etc) in the hands of foreign countries. They will not let the Dollar slide too fast down this road yet.

One day however, when the US Dollar is no longer attractive as a currency, this 5 trillion, or a big portion of it, will come home to roost. What happens when all this money flows back into the country? Inflation!

I just saw an article on a major news website with the title: How to survive a correction. I would have posted it, if it had something good to say.

One needs to remember that there are always at least two parties involved, there are always two sides to the story. Also when it comes to the market. Some people have been genuinely warning us, and sharing information on how bestto protect yourself, others will write the opposite hoping people will continue to invest so that THEY continue making money of YOU. You can tell who these authors are easily, as they continue to promote healthy markets, 14K topping on the Dow, stocks going to do well the next few years, commodities are a bad investment etc. Don't be fooled by this.

The one thing almost everyone agrees on however, is to increase liquidity. Make sure you have as much cash available as you can, whether it is for surviving down the road, or in order to be able to make good investments after the correction.

Why isn't the market ready to correct in a big manner yet? Because through last weeks drop the dollar has maintained it's value vs other currencies. This means that sell-offs were probably instigated by US investors, and not overseas investors. When they start to sell then things will move a lot faster.

Good luck out there.

posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 01:06 PM
As of 2:00 pm, 1010 wins news reports the "Dow" "Flat.."

What happened to the "World Sell Off" ???

Where is the collapse that you folks are talking about?

Where is the Soup lines?

Where are the toilet paper lines?

Where is the doom and gloom?

Nothing you folks predict comes true....again

posted on Jul, 30 2007 @ 04:21 PM
ProfTom, if you read my posts you will see I predicted none of what you say. I predicted other things, which is more than I can say for someone else on this thread. I would love to see a positive contribution from your side as to what you think will happen. I'm beginning to wonder if you know how, I have not seen one from you yet. Your choice to only fool yourself is yours though, and I respect your choice.

I stand by what I have said in my previous posts and will not comment on you again.

posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 08:59 AM
Tuesday 10:am

1010 wyns news reports the dow up 100 points.

where is the mass world sell off again???

posted on Jul, 31 2007 @ 04:01 PM
I did think this was over

U.S. Stocks Retreat on Subprime Concern; Bank, Tech Shares Fall

July 31 (Bloomberg) -- U.S. stocks fell after troubled American Home Mortgage Investment Corp. said it lacks cash to fund new loans and traders speculated Apple Inc. will cut production of its widely touted iPhone. The Standard & Poor's 500 Index posted its biggest monthly decline in three years.

Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc., Bear Stearns Cos. and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. led the brokerage industry to a 10-month low because the prospect of American Home liquidating assets depressed the value of mortgage securities traded on Wall Street. The concern that Apple overestimated demand for its unique mobile telephone helped send the S&P 500 Information Technology Index to its lowest level since March.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

posted on Aug, 4 2007 @ 02:47 AM
Reality check from Cramer

Only one man could display this level of 'passion' on cable television and get away with least he's being honest. Cramer says it's "Armageddon" out there...calls on Bernanke to "open the discount window, and cut rates".

Got Gold?

[edit on 4-8-2007 by OBE1]

posted on Aug, 4 2007 @ 09:39 AM

Bear Stearns triggers Dow crash

Investment bank Bear Stearns precipitated one of the worst market slumps of the year yesterday after admitting that the US credit markets were the worst it had seen in more than two decades.

"These times are pretty significant," he said on a call with investors. "I've been out here for 22 years, and this is as bad as I've seen it in the fixed-income markets."

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Potential to get ugly, very ugly.

[edit on 4-8-2007 by infinite]

posted on Aug, 4 2007 @ 04:51 PM
While I believe that Cramer is honest in his appraisal of the impact from the mortgage crises....I believe that his mention of the thousands of lower & middle income Americans losing, or about to lose their homes is was a footnote. I see this outburst as a theatrical plea to set-up the enevitable Fed bail-out...a stop-loss on a rapidly deflating liquidity/profit bubble. If I were to try this stunt on TV, they'd haul my booty off for observation

Here is an updated, annotated version of this same Cramer 'Stop Trading' segment.

Cut rates, and the Dollar breaks down to test the historical low...raise rates to save the Buck and ease inflation, and the economy stalls...continue to tread water, and the consequences only become more grave. When we begin to see declining employment numbers, we'll have the Perfect Stagflation Storm.

posted on Aug, 4 2007 @ 05:54 PM
All these talking heads on the Bloomberg financial report talking about hedgfunds and liquidity problems saying that banks have tightened requirements for business loans, and I say well wellcome the world of john Q public we all know what it is like when a person deals with a bank loan officer and has been almost impossible personal loans for years. Of the approximately 14 million home owners in the USA who have home loans well over half are adjustable rate mortgages (ARM) they will be the ones who have to absorb the cost of the landslide of mortgage defaults that looms on the horizon and as their rates go up and their real estate equity goes down they will soon reach a point where it is easier just to walk away from the house than to pay more on a note that has lost a third of it's original value.

posted on Aug, 4 2007 @ 08:02 PM

Originally posted by pantheria
just to walk away from the house than to pay more on a note that has lost a third of it's original value.

Tell you what, right now in my county alone is a listing of over 2000 homes for foreclosure and I do not live in a big county at all.

I always heard about the fall of the dollar but it wasn't until I went to UK that I finally experience how bad the American dollar is.

I wanted to purchase a book and the price was on euros, when I did the money change to see the price on American dollars for the first time in my life I understood how bad it was.

Friday was a very bad day in the markets and its been like that for the last three weeks.

posted on Aug, 5 2007 @ 04:48 AM
OBE1, good posts. Friday job numbers were down (it's starting so you infer).

I spoke to a friend and bank director yesterday, and although aware of the sub-prime mortgage issue, he was under the impression that this could continue another 20-30 years like this. I did not mention it, but I believe he does not see the whole picture of the effects of inflation, the US senate having to up the debt ceiling because they can't keep up payments on interest, the econo-political agenda for implementation of the Amero, the attempted increase in segregation between lower and high income groups, and the increased risk of globalisation (although it also has benefits, I do not discount that).

The combination of all these aspects leads to a scenario unseen in modern or US history, and the one major link that has not yet been discussed is the timing. IF there will be a mass sell-off, when will this likely occur? In order to help push Oil above 100USD (which will happen before the end of the year), a sell-off or large correction (10-25% of market value) will need to occur before half september this year.

What do others think about this?

posted on Aug, 5 2007 @ 05:43 AM

Originally posted by Nextstep

IF there will be a mass sell-off, when will this likely occur? In order to help push Oil above 100USD (which will happen before the end of the year), a sell-off or large correction (10-25% of market value) will need to occur before half september this year.

What do others think about this?

It was reported by other sites that the June 2007 Bilderberg Meeting
has allowed for oil to price between $105-$150. for the 2007-2008 time frame.

derivitive packages bundled by bankers were allowed to insert sub-prime ARM mortgages into the risk bundles that big investment groups bought through hedge funds...
the risky dirivities were way over priced-along with the commissions that were paid straight away...
so now all these fancy financiers are busy trying to devise a way to recover.....which isn't going to happen any time soon.

heres a comprehensive article to read over,
it addresses some of your points and several others...all appropos to the
financial/markets turmoil/exchange rates/ = 'mess' that's been created
by [ The Return of the Robber Barons ]

link to article "In Richistan: Fantanstic Wealth for a Few; Steady Decline for Many"


posted on Aug, 5 2007 @ 08:33 AM
St Udio thanks for that article, very interesting. Paul Roberts generally makes great articles/headlines, especially lately having seemingly reached a patriotic level of ethics and responsibility.

Great to hear about the Bilderberger price setting target, my approach is purely from a financial extrapolation of cause/result so it is nice to see other evidence complementing this.

Yen carry trading is the other side of the flip coin that is keeping things afloat right now, but here too there is strain on the economy to raise interest rates. When this happens the global economy scales will be put out of balance further, speeding up what appears to be part of a broarder plan...

When will someone manage to get free energy on the market in a producable and sellable form so the economy can be stimulated with new markets and employment opportunities........

posted on Aug, 5 2007 @ 03:46 PM
Another thread with some excellent info and view points. Interesting that aside from Cramer's outburst, I haven't heard much conjecture from the media pundits leading into this weeks FOMC meeting. Maybe it's just that I haven't been paying attention. Short of announcing a rate cut (which I think is unlikely at this point) it's going to take some pretty clever word-smithing to remain on hold, and still manage to quell the current market jitters. Last weeks NBC-Wall St. Journal Poll indicated that two thirds of Americans believe we are now in recession, or that we will be in 2008.

Fortunately, I'm not one of those with great exposure to the mortgage industry. I didn't recently enter an overblown RE market by the skin of my teeth, and I don't have an ARM scheduled to reset. I haven't been forced to live off my equity [yet], nor am I invested either personally, or through a pension fund, in over-leveraged derivatives. Still, like all other middle, and lower income Americans, I'm not immune to the ultimate effects of what appears to be an increasing liquidity/credit my economic views are as subject to personal bias as anyone else's.

It's becoming obvious that the vested interests preaching subprime containment were wrong. The fallout is already affecting foreign financial institutions (Germany/Australia), and I think this trend will continue well into 08. Scared foreign money may withdraw from US equity markets looking for greener pastures. Dollar weakness may drag on US treasuries as a safe haven investment, and growing foreign discontentment with the current administrations policies abroad may further dampen US investment interest. I suspect that Hank Paulson's trip to China this week included discussions centering on Bejing's continued support of the US bond market.

As far as the timing of a severe correction is concerned, I'm looking towards the end of 07, but as Nextstep suggested, a strengthening Yen is a wild card. A massive unwinding of the carry trade would devastate the US broad markets, and even a moderate cover will have deep repercussions. Barring this scenario, several pundits are calling for continued volitility into Fall, that may even include another record DOW...then the possibility for a serious correction occuring in Oct.

I think elevated oil prices are related more to reduced production, and the US Dollar...than to the equities market. For example, after this coming Tuesday, there are three more FOMC meetings scheduled for 07...Sept...Oct...and Dec. Should the Fed find it necessary to assume an easing bias before the end of the year...the markets would rally...but the Dollar goes further South. So we could experience another series of record highs in the broad markets, and still see crude at $100+ due to Dollar weakness. Fundamentally, oil prices are controlled at the level of production. A Dollar, weak against other major currencies, affects the purchasing power of oil producing countries. This seems to encourage reduced production/supply, and higher an offset

I hope I don't sound cavalier regarding the subprime mess. My heart truly goes-out to any, and all that find themselves on the brink. The convenient changes to the bankruptcy laws in 2005 only exacerbate the current situation of millions of good people. I have my own suspicions about the timing, and motives behind those law changes.

posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 05:57 PM

Originally posted by infinite
Potential to get ugly, very ugly.

Nope just the british media trying to make a big issue out of one bad week.

The Dow industrials surged 286 points Monday, posting its biggest point gain of the year, helped by financial sector strength just ahead of the Federal Reserve's policy meeting.

The Dow Jones industrial average (up 262.24 to 13,444.15, Charts) soared 286 points, or 2.16 percent, based on early tallies, rebounding from a 281 point late session selloff Friday.


Imagine that the biggest gain of the whole year

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