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Mass Sell Off across the World

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posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 04:35 AM
Predictions and warnings of a major correction on the economy is gaining more and more voices. We'll just have to wait a see.

posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 06:09 AM
European markets are all over the place, up and down.

Many commentators feel that a correction is needed and this is going to last for a while. It's healthy, but the longer we leave it, the larger the correction will be.

posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 06:37 AM
Although the DOW had reached 14K, it is still worth 40% less than in 2001 if you take inflation into account. Then of course this is Govt CPI inflation figures being used. If you use REAL inflation figures the market is already worth considerably less. The only reason this is not visible yet is because all the other countries are printing money like mad as well, causing a slower 'visible' decline, as the market appears to be rising still.

Calculate in that we are being shown the market through an inflation filter and one may wonder how long it will take before the world reacts as the point of no return is crossed....

And when that isn't enough, during this time of despair the legality of the Amero will still need to be discussed, but that is another topic.

I wish you all wise spending/saving.

posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 08:06 AM
Putting it into perspective, the DJIA is where it was back at the beginning of the month:

A bigger and more abrupt drop happened in February of this year:

...and there was no big selloff of stocks before 9/11. The big decline happened in 2002

posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 09:52 AM
It's called taking profits.

You can read anything into it you want but in the end that's what it is.

posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 11:23 AM
DOW - 115

still abit more selling off going on.

some reckon it will carry on into next week (Chinese stock market is expected to correct itself next week, 24% this year!!)

posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 01:08 PM
Duh -- doesn't anyone remember the correction???

As always on ATS..."chicken little the sky is falling!!!!"

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 02:47 AM
Ya know i've always wondered why there wasn't a Financial/Business Conspiracy forum. A place to discuss possible financial conspiracies like insider trading activities, suppresion of gold/silver prices, no longer reporting M-3 numbers by fed, under the radar intervention in markets by govt or private entities,malfeacence of publicly traded companies in areas away from the spotlight, and other juicy stuff. I know you can find alot of these things in alot of the other forums, but it'd be nice to have them in one place. I also figure that these may be some of the conspiracies we have the best chance of PROVING TO BE TRUE!

Yes this correction has hurt me a bit, but anyone with a brain could've seen it coming. I got out of the REIT's i had months ago and rearranged my IRA into dividend payers, ADR's, bond funds, and the gold ETF. I've started taking the money i was putting into my trading account and buying physical silver and paying extra toward the mortgage every month. It didn't take a nobel nominated economist to see this coming. Did anyone really think that people who didn't pay their bills before they bought a house would magically get responsible by owning a home? Homebuilders continued to overbuild to keep The Street happy, and the financiers were more than willing to scrape the bottom of the credit barrel to keep it going. In my opinion they deserve to pay the piper, only problem is their greed is in the end gonna hurt everyone.

Back in '05 the wife and I bought our first house. We ended up getting what i think is a pretty good fixed rate 30 YR 5.625% and it was VA secured. We were pretty broke at the time (but both had proveable income and fair to decent credit) and i felt bad that we had nothing to pay down (hence why paying extra toward the mortgage when i can afford it is a priority to me). At the time i was looking around for a house, i was concerned about our lack of a substantial down payment. One of the agents i talked to told us about all the new loan "products" available at the time. ARM's (not new and smart people have known to stay away from them particularly when rates are low) interest only, and other weird things that I knew better than to get int. To make a long story short, our income has gone up and our payment has stayed the same leading to more money in pocket for other things(like gas and food), while the people we know who took these exotic loans are paying more for their home even as their income goes up which along with the rise in gas and food prices leaves them with less income to spend on other things.

I don't think the subprime issue is even in the middle innings yet and figure we the taxpayer will probably end up paying for the bailout anyway. The bailout of banks/lending institutions if the Republicans have the power or the bailout of people who made poor financial decisions by buying homes they couldn't afford if its the Democrats that make the call. Or possibly we could see some true bipartisanship and see the taxpayer bailout the enablers and the deadbeats.

I'm a little apprehensive about the future and what will happen to the assets in my trading account. The IRA i'm less worried about cause hopefully it'll be 30 years before i need what's in it.

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 03:07 AM

Originally posted by 3_Libras

I just hope you realise that a number of credible papers in the US, such as the Washington Post, are predicting a very, very bad future for the US economy.

I just hope you realize that half of their warnings are politically motivated. They want to blame anything bad on the POTUS and somehow give credit for anything good in the economy to Clinton (the boy one.)

You watch you Washington Post; it will all be George Bushes fault.

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 03:18 AM
Quick question. I'm currently house hunting. If the economy turns bad, what happens to interest rates--up or down? I'm about to make an offer on a property, and I'm wondering if I should hurry up or wait a little while.

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 03:33 AM
I have seen two of ProfTom's comments now, both on separate threads, here he basically says that ATS and the people on it are stupid, in the other one he said that if anyone doesn't like the US then they should leave to the other side so he can drop 500lb bombs on them.

Seriously, what is this guy doing here, he's got nothing to add, instead trying to turn a positive discussion into a negative one. Do we just ignore this guy or are there ways of having people like this removed. If I remember the terms & conditions correctly, this type of thing is not allowed.

I just had to say that people, my apologies for drifting of the subject, it is obvious that there are some people on here who try to sabotage the actual discussion, and that while they have their heads in the sand. I have joined in order to be able to have good discussions and debate (I respect other peoples opinions whatever they are, so long as they do not start to turn the conversation into a character assassination - which I believe is a sign of weakness and/or lack of wisdom).

I think it is good to see however that people like this exist and would rather go to their graves with this type of mentality intact, than open their eyes and face their fears that what they don't want to be is actually true.

So thank you ProfTom, you have provided us with a basic perception of what types of people are out there, which is why we have CPI figures that are bent out of proportion because food energy and housing is not added, why M3 moneycount is no longer reported etc.

Having studied the US and global economy for 11 years now I can fairly securely predict the following:

1) There will be a fairly large correction before half september, what we have seen the last two days is only about 10-20% of what the total losses will entail

2) Inflation will increase and food prices will soar by 30% plus before the end of the year (especially grain)

3) Mortgage defaults will double within 12 months

4) Social Service support from the Govt will decrease substantially

5) The NAU and introduction of the Amero will be the proposed solution for the deliberate bankruptcy of the US. There will be increasing protest against this, so another even bigger correction in 2009 will take place to make this inevitable.

People tend to think that a stockmarket collapse will cause the Chinese market to collapse also. This is not true. Yes, it will correct like all other stockmarkets, but not crash. When the chinese no longer need to invest a huge amount of their export earnings into US based securities, any moneys received from sales to the US (although this will reduce drastically) can be spent on improving the standard of life inside China itself. The US went through this same phase of national growth post WWII.

Of course I would love to be wrong, but when you know that the US is being run by people with ProfTom's way of thinking, one tends to be more right when one lends credence to the opposite of what these people say.

So I hope ProfTom invests in US backed securities while the rest of us start spendng wisely, saving, repaying the mortgage faster if possible, and if you are already tight on spending and low on cash, find a way to get rid of that credit card ASAP and be prepared to sacrifice, as it is only going to get worse!

My apologies for using you as an example ProfTom, but somehow I think that is exactly what you wanted in the first place, any type of attention will do! Glad to be of service, now please leave this site if you have nothing good to say about it.

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 03:40 AM
Yuefo, the market is all about timing, There is always money to be made somewhere, it just depends on where in the market cycle you are. This is DEFINITELY not a time to buy, as much as I know you may think it is the right thing to do, making you more responsible, moving forward in the world etc. Will you move forward if the house you buy now is worth 50K less in 1-2 years?

When the house prices have sunk after an economic crash it is the time to buy, when the market is peaking, like now, it is time to rent. Coming from a family that has made more money (than I can ever spend) on real estate in the last 20 years, I know what I am talking about. My family has sold all real estate recently and we are waiting......waiting for the next investment opportunity, after the market crash! If I was you, I would rent until at least 2009, you will thank me for it afterwards. I am renting too now, believe it or not even though I am not short of money at all.

Good luck!

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 03:54 AM
Oh my god. Thanks nextstep. I'm literally about to meet with my agent tomorrow to arrange an offer. I'm sending what you said and see what her reaction is. This is exactly what I've been worrying about.

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 05:49 AM

Originally posted by Nextstep
1) There will be a fairly large correction before half september, what we have seen the last two days is only about 10-20% of what the total losses will entail

Funny you should say that,

I was watching CNBC yesterday (not the type to scream "run to the hills!") but made some interesting comments.

Firstly, a major correction is way overdue. It was in the 80s when we last saw an 20% correction. As the pundits said, we will see one in our lives. Even went as far to say a market crash is likely too.

DJIA is only 0.8 off a 5% correction, but its likely to increase. The Chinese markets will kick things off again. 24%+ for the year? Chinese stocks will help to bring about a large correction.

European stock markets lost between 6-10% last week.

Market crash? not sure, large correction of 10%+? Yes

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 07:46 AM

Good luck, am glad to be of help. You may want to ask some other people as well, as your agent is only interested in one thing, and that is selling a house to you so she makes money (especially in the market where her sales volume has surely reduced in the last 12 months).

Interestingly, I once invested in a well advertised financial scheme some years ago, at a time when the economy was also peaking like it is now. It cost me my investment and 50% plus to buy my way out of it years later. Was the scheme bad? NO, I just jumped in at the wrong time.

By the way, if you are going to purchase regardless, and I understand there must be many personal, financial and emotional reasons which help determine your decision making process, try to get yourself a 30year fixed rate mortgage. Any floating interest rate mortgages, or 1 or 5 year fixed, then floating are something you want to stay very far away from, even if this means not purchasing. Your partner may not like you for it now, but will be grateful in the next few years.

What is actually happening on a macro level is a Govt scheme to move purchasing power (which is different than how much you own as a figure) from the lower and middle class to the upper class, thereby increasing the amount of power they have to instill their upcoming policies.

I will gladly expand on this if anyone is interested, and also how you can best protect yourself and your families in the future (no I am not an investment advisor, I do not want to gain from you or anyone by sharing any advice, it just hurts me to see how many people will become affected negatively by what is coming. Besides, most investment advisors only know about their own area of expertise, and sound advise comes from those who understand the whole market, which is why I started doing my own homework years ago and profited as a result).

And if you still are not sure what to do, close your eyes, discount everything anyone has said, including me, and listen to your gut instinct. It will give you an answer instantly, and in my case has never been wrong yet!

Good luck Yuefo!

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 11:31 AM
This has been my opinion for three years. I've been waiting and waiting. Do you think it will really happen?

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 12:01 PM
the market alternately soars or falls,

the average is the median between the two...nothing more than that.
Sure the 'average' fell yesterday,

but a person's holdings vary from person to person,
the plain-brown paper portfolio i've acquired over time
actually rose a couple % while the broader market fell a couple %

mostly due to my Lance Inc. shares that gained a goodly +10%

all-in-all, i see it likely that in another 6 weeks we'll be back above
the 14,000 highs again.
unless a hedge fund or two goes belly up
and/or credit/loans are only available to the $150K/yr class

~meanwhile the transfer of wealth is going along smoothly~
and the required 'shaking' of the money tree disengages all the dead leaves and bloated fruits.

it's a pickers market
Canadian $ on par with U$D & 10 pesos = being the ratio for Ameros

it's all good, for the agile


posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 02:37 PM
Hi Arius, Thanks for your question, I appreciate your concern. It pays to be vigilant in an economy where data is twisted, but also within the total market are always smaller markets which rise and peak at different moments. This means there are always opportunities.

Personally I thought the market would have been at this point last december (I don't mind showing my faults and mistakes, we all do it), although now I understand the dynamics of why and how it has been extended for so long.

There are many other factors involved, some which I will write in another post if desired, but the august / september 2007 time period is an important one.

From that perspective it may be wise to opt out for a period of a few (2)months and minimise the risk of any 'correction' as the potential losses are greater than the gains to be made in this time period, and therefore too great a risk (high risk seems to be more acceptable currently in the US, which is why I say this now).

Commodities will be rising across the board, but will also see a dip during this correction, which is why it is better to wait before buying. Following this period will see many opportunities in this sector. Remember to calculate in a loss in buying power of about 10% due to real monetary inflation per year, so your returns need to be higher than this if you want to make REAL profits.

The reason why it will be different this time round compared to say the 1987 crash, and the internet bubble has several reasons, some major ones being:

1) The US economy is already in the hands of foreign countries in that they only keep it going by purchasing US securities. They will continue to do so only because it is in their best interest, until their interests are better served otherwise.

2) This time round the housing sector is involved, which means many many millions of Americans will be affected. With the burst in the internet bubble, it was real estate prices in places like San Jose that were affected, meaning the effect was only regional. Now that it concerns the housing market it will be national. The impact on consumption within the US will therefore be greater, causing an even more widespread problem.

Knowing these things provides enough of a basis to organise yourself properly financially, do some research into commodities, inflation and what it really does to your spending power. Also think about what you would need to do if your income is reduced (through purchasing power) yet costs rise. Which regular bills don't you need? How much of an impact will it have on you? How much risk do you have (debt vs assets) and therefore how much precaution must you take compared to say your neighbours, or parents, or colleagues?

Pay of credit card debts before any other loans, then start with your mortgage, if you have these.

I'm not sharing this to instill fear into anyone, only to provide insight which anyone can use should they desire to. Fear is in oneself, just like the knowledge of what is right and wrong for you.

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 04:25 PM

Originally posted by Nextstep
You may want to ask some other people as well, as your agent is only interested in one thing, and that is selling a house to you so she makes money (especially in the market where her sales volume has surely reduced in the last 12 months).

Well it's much like you said. My agent massaged me with various facts and figures. One thing she said however was true--I'm not looking at the home purchase as an investment so much as a living situation. But I'm unnerved, as the downpayment is most of my nestegg. As you eluded to, there are other aspects for me to consider, in that my invalid mother is getting a divorce and I need to take her in, forcing my hand a bit. As she is contributing to the downpayment, the buying option has surfaced as an attractive alternative to renting.

I took your advice and got a second opinion from my boss, who is a real estate developer, and she gave me a somewhat ambiguous response. Actually both of them suggested that while the prices would probably drop, the price would still swing up well beyond that within a decade, and I am planning to stay put at least that long. I'm not as confident as they are however because their assumption it seems to me is that the economy as a whole will be intact throughout, and I'm not.

My compromise is that I'm making an offer $50K below what I intended and seeing where that puts me. Thanks for your input Nextstep, much appreciated.

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 05:00 PM

Originally posted by yuefo

Actually both of them suggested that while the prices would probably drop, the price would still swing up well beyond that within a decade, and I am planning to stay put at least that long.

sure the asking price may drop.......
all the 'Flip-this-house' speculators will try to get out from under the balloon $$, ARMs they entered. hoping to net a profit on the lending
credit new suckers entered the housing turnover market

as all those 'flip-this-house' dreamers' are suddenly faced with foreclosures...
with the reality of substantial Loss !!!

they did not make a bad opportunity choice ---
it was only their 'timing' that was erroneous,
better luck next time on the get rich scheme

Oh, i forgot to mention my point!

The property tax, or millage rates are gonna skyrocket
and suck up any anticipated advantage you might imagine
you have for making a sale on the real-estate involved........

after all, how many people feel secure they have a secure position
(job) with a guaranteed income- - -any more???
with the down-sizing & oursourcing & mergers/acquisitions
who wants to 'roll-the-dice' on a 100% commitment of the 'families'
combined income for 5-10 years (if your fortunate enough to excape foreclosures)

get analytical !!

[edit on 28-7-2007 by St Udio]

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