Assuming the conspiracy theories behind the Illuminati/Masons are false myths

Assuming the conspiracy theories about the Illuminati existing and running the world are false, is their a grain of truth to them.

As much as this may upset some people here, I am of the belief the Illuminati does not exist. I do not believe Masons are clandestinely running the world or hatching nefarious plots to place microchips in people's brains.

The myths about the Illuminati and Masons on the other hand, are compelling stories. Like all compellling stories, they may harbor some truth. This truth may be an accurate description of the world at large, or could be a description of the teller of the story.

One truth in the myth could be a truth about those who believe and recount the myths. These people may feel powerless in a world that is becoming more complex. These people feel that the complex world they live in would not function coherently unless some single entity were in control. Since they, and many of the people they associate with are powerless, and someone must have some power, some small group of strange people must have the power that makes the world coherent.

Perhaps the myth reveals truths about our class system. We also live in a society where socioeconomic classes for the most part do not have any meaningful interactions with eachother. Since most people do not have any meaningful interaction with the highest socieoeconomic classes, they are ignorant of what these people are really like. Furthermore, their perceptions of the highest socioeconomic groups may be biased or distorted by feelings of jealousy, alienation, or injustice. This leads them to make outlandish speculations of what these people are really like. One of thse speculations may be various Illuminati/freemason theories.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint


Perhaps the myth reveals truths about our class system.

I think you hit the mark exactly. For example, one common feature shared by the conspiracy theorists is that they believe that the Masonic fraternity is peopled by rich snobby folks....and seem honestly surprised when they learn it's not the case at all.

It seems that they project their own fears and class prejudices onto Masonry, sort of like anti-Semites do to the Jews.

You don't upset me... I personally have never believed in all of the "Masonic conspiracy" theories... and the Illuminatti that are running things right now are not those of old...

Another thing I would like to add is that perhaps the theories are a commentary on our societies values, or lack thereof. People may see that our society as a whole is moving in an irrational or immoral direction. They feel that since the bulk of society is behaving immorally or irrationally, some unified entity is pushing society in that direction. Since that entity is hard to identify or visualize, the people who believe that entity exists will make wild theories as to what it is and what its qualities are. This of course leads to Illuminati/Masonry conspiracy theories.

One instance in which this sentiment is particularly accute is in people's views of social and economic advancement. Most of us were told that if we worked hard and played by the rules we would be rewarded. Unfortunatley the world is not fair and many people who work hard and play by the rules do not do well, and it at least appears to many that people who do not work hard or cheat are rewarded with wealth, career, and social advancement. People who work hard and play by the rules who do not advance begin to question why they are left behind while others who appear to be dishonest, lazy, or unproductive advance. They may then conclude that those who get ahead must have some sort of secret, unfair advantage, and that advantage is the Illuminati or Masons.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
Another thing I would like to add is that perhaps the theories are a commentary on our societies values, or lack thereof. People may see that our society as a whole is moving in an irrational or immoral direction. They feel that since the bulk of society is behaving immorally or irrationally, some unified entity is pushing society in that direction. ... (snip) ... They may then conclude that those who get ahead must have some sort of secret, unfair advantage, and that advantage is the Illuminati or Masons.

If this is true, and it could well be, the irony of being accused of being immoral wouldn't be missed on most masons

Great thread btw

One of the things that led me to joining Freemasonry aside from the speculative side,and a love for philosophy and interest in learning about world religions and belief systems WAS the fact that in a degenerate sick society, I see the masons as one of the few groups of people, short of a religious body (church,etc) that are making an actual attempt to live righteously,ethically,and morally.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
[I think you hit the mark exactly. For example, one common feature shared by the conspiracy theorists is that they believe that the Masonic fraternity is peopled by rich snobby folks....and seem honestly surprised when they learn it's not the case at all.

It seems that they project their own fears and class prejudices onto Masonry, sort of like anti-Semites do to the Jews.

Of course, you could be one of the "low ranking" masons who are in the dark about the real inner workings of masonry. Or, you could be a bona fide "high ranking" mason who is taking time away from your activities of Zionist world domination to post something on this message board which will mislead us as to your true agenda.

The Illuminati is speculative. Freemasonry is also speculative, as is the Bohemian Grove and Skull & Bones. This is what happens when you have secret societies, and that's the problem with secret societies. It is also a breeding ground for actual conspiracies. You can say the same thing about a secret government. Here, check this out:



Who was JFK talking about?

heh you could be a mason and still have no idea how they actually work.Unless your a high ranking mason i will stick to my believes because there is so much evidence.one fast example,we could only choose between two skull and bones members for president,Bush or Kerry.Coidncidence that poeple in these groups end up being the richest most pwerfull poeple on the planet case and case again?I dont think so

Originally posted by Colloneh7
The Illuminati is speculative. Freemasonry is also speculative, as is the Bohemian Grove and Skull & Bones.

Do you even know what speculative means? Do you have any idea what freemasons speculate on, or why they are called speculative?

Do some research, my friend. You might just surprise yourself. As has been noted many times before, the search feature here on ATS is your friend.

Originally posted by Project_Silo
heh you could be a mason and still have no idea how they actually work.

Unlike non-masons, who seem to know so much more.

Unless your a high ranking mason i will stick to my believes because there is so much evidence.

Could you explain to me what you understand by the term 'high ranking mason'? Do you believe there is a specific point at which a freemason becomes 'high ranking'? If so... perhaps I have already reached it.

It would be nice to know...

[edit on 7/30/07 by Trinityman]

33 degrees are the only ones i think have any part in the more sinister plans.Lower level do the other stuff like set up evets from what i hear.

Originally posted by Trinityman

Originally posted by Colloneh7
The Illuminati is speculative. Freemasonry is also speculative, as is the Bohemian Grove and Skull & Bones.

Do you even know what speculative means? Do you have any idea what freemasons speculate on, or why they are called speculative?

Don't condescend me as if you know everything. I know what speculative means. In fact, if you would not quote me out of context, you would see that in the very next sentence, the answer to your question of why people are speculative of freemasonry is because:

"This is what happens when you have secret societies, and that's the problem with secret societies."

Not to mention the sworn oath freemasons swear to each other under threat of death as well as all of the occultism. Do you even know what you are involved in? I would surmise (yes I know what that means) that you do not.

Do some research, my friend. You might just surprise yourself. As has been noted many times before, the search feature here on ATS is your friend.

I have done research, but just from the few comments I have recieved from you and your fellow freemasons at this website, I can see that it is you guys who need to do more research. Unless, you wish to factor in dishonesty into that equation.

[edit on 31-7-2007 by Colloneh7]

Originally posted by Project_Silo
33 degrees are the only ones i think have any part in the more sinister plans.Lower level do the other stuff like set up evets from what i hear.

To begin with, 33° members are not at a "higher level" than other members. A 33° Mason is a member of the Scottish Rite who has been made an honorary member of the Supreme Council. 33° Masons are subordinate to the same laws and regulations as everyone else. For example, to be Worshipful Master of a Lodge, one need only be Third Degree. So in cases when the Master of the Lodge has no other degrees than the first three, he still "outranks" everyone else in the Lodge, including those of the Scottish Rite 33°.

Now, exactly which 33° Mason do you think is involved in "sinister plans". Appak, who is a member here at ATS, is a 33° Mason. Roy Clark, the country musician who hosted "Hee Haw" in the '70's is a 33°, as is his buddy Mel Tillis. Dr. Kenneth Lyons, a bishop in the United Methodist Church, is a 33° Mason, and is Grand Chaplain for the Supreme Council. What kind of sinister stuff is he up to?

Originally posted by Colloneh7
Don't condescend me as if you know everything. I know what speculative means. In fact, if you would not quote me out of context, you would see that in the very next sentence, the answer to your question of why people are speculative of freemasonry is because:

"This is what happens when you have secret societies, and that's the problem with secret societies."

Now there's no need to be grumpy. I'm very glad that you know what speculative means, because it makes it easier for you to answer my next question

Do you have any idea what freemasons speculate on, or why they are called speculative?

Once you know the answer to that question (well OK, there are two questions there) you will be well on the way to making an advancement in masonic knowledge.

As to the "secrecy", I think you are getting mixed up between secret and private. A private meeting is one which you know perfectly well where it meets, possibly why it meets and maybe even who is meeting there. But you are not invited and you don't know what goes on inside. You wouldn't even know a secret meeting had happened.

Not to mention the sworn oath freemasons swear to each other...

You just did. What about them?

... under threat of death...

News to me. You are not by any chance referring to the symbolic penalties are you, which everyone knows are symbolic. It's even specifically stated as such at the time.

... as well as all of the occultism.

Again. What?!?? Instead of just throwing out these 'oh so clever' sound bites perhaps you could give me some specific examples. I'm most familiar with Emulation, so perhaps you could start there.

Do you even know what you are involved in? I would surmise (yes I know what that means) that you do not.

A great deal more than you do, it would seem. Please tell me what makes you so qualified to comment on something about which you apparently know so little.

Unless, you wish to factor in dishonesty into that equation.

Perhaps you could explain this throwaway comment a little more. I'm interested to know what you mean by this.

33 degree is to higher and more enlightened then the rest from everything i have ever heard.these are also the ones who do all the stuff that the rest of you masons have no idea about.But your gonna keep saying that is bs and i'm not going to stop thinking it so i see this going no where.

Originally posted by Project_Silo
33 degree is to higher and more enlightened then the rest from everything i have ever heard.these are also the ones who do all the stuff that the rest of you masons have no idea about.But your gonna keep saying that is bs and i'm not going to stop thinking it so i see this going no where.

I disagree. I think this really can go somewhere. Just tell me where you got this information from - lets look at how good the source is and where they got their information from. Then we'll compare that with my first hand knowledge and go from there.

Fair?

I have come to a conclusion about freemasonry, and that it is nothing more than a patsy organization given its dictates by a powerful clandestine organization to which President Kennedy alluded to in his secret society speech.

This organization is not the Illuminati, Priory Of Zion, Jesuits, Catholic Church, New World Order, Zionists, Jews, Nazi's, Bohemian Grove, U.S. Government, Federal Reserve, or the Freemasonry. As all of these organizations are more or less "Patsy's" to be sacrificed to the Owners.

This organization, as Kennedy stated is in fact global in nature and is centered around family bloodlines. They have a name, but who here really is interested in the truth.............

Originally posted by Project_Silo
33 degree is to higher and more enlightened then the rest from everything i have ever heard.

Then what you have heard is not accurate, and certainly didn't come from Masons. 33rd Degree Masons are those members of the Scottish Rite who have been honorary members of the Supreme Council, or have been elected voting members of the Supreme Council.

Voting members of the Supreme Council are called "Sovereign Grand Inspectors General". All other 33rd Degree Masons are called "Inspectors General Honorary".

Appak, an actice member of this very forum, is a 33rd Degree Mason.
I'm a 32nd Degree Mason, and so are several others around here. If you think we're "enlightened", thanks, but you obviosly don't know us very well!

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
I have come to a conclusion about freemasonry, and that it is nothing more than a patsy organization given its dictates by a powerful clandestine organization to which President Kennedy alluded to in his secret society speech.

This organization is not the Illuminati, Priory Of Zion, Jesuits, Catholic Church, New World Order, Zionists, Jews, Nazi's, Bohemian Grove, U.S. Government, Federal Reserve, or the Freemasonry. As all of these organizations are more or less "Patsy's" to be sacrificed to the Owners.

This organization, as Kennedy stated is in fact global in nature and is centered around family bloodlines. They have a name, but who here really is interested in the truth.............

Ah, All Seeing Eye. It's been a while.

I would, from my research and the opinions and conclusions it has led me to, almost wholeheartedly agree with this (yes, you read that right. We almost agree on something). Where we differ in this is that I don't think that the organizations mentioned (both real and fictional ) are so much "patsies" that take "orders" or direction from the small group that may indeed be pulling global strings. I don't entirely doubt that such a group of people exists; after all from the beginning there have been those who felt it was given to them to determine the fates of their fellows, and they have always worked behind the scenes. History tells us this. Note that just as I don't entirely doubt their existence, I don't entirely doubt that it is a whole lot of paranoid drivel either.

We just don't know. If we did, maybe we could get a break from all the offensive "Masons are Evil" threads and discuss what is really a danger to us...

Such an organization would consider the keeping of their existence secret of tantamount importance, and having ties to any real operating group increases the chances that they would be discovered. However, these people certainly would use the population's fear and ignorance of fraternal organizations like Freemasonry to their advantage... if everyone is so concerned with the lodge down the street, no one will be looking when they swoop down and all of a sudden we are facing what so many people fear, and it's coming from nowhere because everyone is looking in the wrong direction. They would want to villify any type of organization that could foster the seeds of revolution against their tyranny, which, history tells us, Freemasonry is exceptionally well structured for.

People obviously recognize this, but their fear is misplaced. If anything, the very connections and networks that Freemasonry has created, and that conspiracy theorists seem to fear is working against them, would be the very vanguard in the fight against whatever "New World Order" type globalist tyrannical government would try to take over. One thing I can safely say about Masons in general is that most if not every last one of us loves their country and their freedoms, and would be amongst the first to fight if anyone ever tried to take that from the people. Freedom, liberty, human rights; these are all things that most Masons feel strongly about, and would be quick to defend.

I Know I would fight, and I'm almost positive my brethren here would agree.