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FBI Proposes Building Network of U.S. Informants

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posted on Aug, 5 2007 @ 01:52 AM
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Well this is just great. The cranky old bat next door is sure to report me for something.


Originally posted by Justin Oldham

The Sept. 11 bill is a top Democratic priority and Republicans fought hard to include the passenger immunity protection, creating common cause with Connecticut Independent Joe Lieberman, chairman of the conference committee knitting together the House and Senate bills designed to implement unfulfilled security recommendations of the Sept. 11 commission.


Yeah, big surprise stealth neocon Lieberman's pushing this one. Jeez I hate that prick. But then again, basically I hate them all.




posted on Aug, 5 2007 @ 03:51 PM
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I'll say one thing for the kids in congress. They are certainly giving us a lot to think about. I hope that what you see here on this and other web sites will motivate you to get out and vote...while you still can.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 06:40 AM
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Many people here cannot understand the importance of a HUMINT element in our intelligence network. Neither did Clinton. He thought that all we needed were better sattelites, so he tore it down, and with the help of Jamie Gorelick (remember her? ) built a wall between the CIA and FBI. That is what today we have such a dearth of translators and others that can blend in with other cultures.

It takes years to build an effective HUMINT organization. The FBI is not building a network of neighborhood snitches and busybodies, believe me. They have much bigger fish to fry.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky The FBI is not building a network of neighborhood snitches and busybodies, believe me. They have much bigger fish to fry.


I see you cite Orwell as your signature...."People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Might I, then, respond in kind by letting Orwell do the talking for me?

"Early in life I had noticed that no event is ever correctly reported in a newspaper."

"Nationalism is power hunger tempered by self-deception."

"Every war when it comes, or before it comes, is represented not as a war but as an act of self-defense against a homicidal maniac. "

"Political language... is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."

"If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever. "


and finally..."We have now sunk to a depth at which restatement of the obvious is the first duty of intelligent men."

'Nuff Said?



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky
It takes years to build an effective HUMINT organization. The FBI is not building a network of neighborhood snitches and busybodies, believe me. They have much bigger fish to fry.


I wish I could see things your way. I really do. In the 1950's, Hoover's HUMINT net reached every level of society. Yes, I know it was cut back, but it makes the point that it was done once before, so it can be done to us again. The recently passed hold-harless law designed to protect informants will be claimed by anyone who wants to rat on somebody.

An examination of the East German Stasi demonstrates just how easy it is to build and grow information nets. The Soviets and even the Chinese have demostrated to us that its not hard to penetrate a society with informant networks. It won't be long before we see informant hotlines advertised on t.v. and radio. "Got a tip? Stay anonnymous and call 1-800-s-t-o-p-t-e-r-r-o-r."



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 09:44 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I see you cite Orwell as your signature...."People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
Might I, then, respond in kind by letting Orwell do the talking for me?

And a few weeks ago, I had a Steven Wright quotation as part of my signature.


Go ahead, knock yourself out.
So you can dig out a few quotes that you think are somehow relevant; so what?
That's supposed to prove something?

Jeezus, the competition is getting thin...


Originally posted by marg6043
Js, you can call me paranoid, crazy or more to marg that you know but the truth is that I am nothing more than a regular everyday Spanish women, citizen a very concern citizen, that has see through the years the decline of our political system.

I am worry sick that one day America, our freedoms and what I have grown with will be gone and over with, more under this administration than ever.

Is that so bad Js? to worry so much, I can not help it, the signs are there everyday and for all to see.

Sorry if I can not turn my head to the other side and ignore them.

marg.

marg, marg, you have got to toughen up a bit. You know what the problem is? You listen to the wrong messages. Stop listening to the pseudo-intellectual babble and rabbit-hearted people that are afraid of their own shadow. And realize that for many people, this is the first administration that they have lived through as an adult, or are aware of. They have no basis, no experience, so they succumb to the sensationalism and alarmism that is spread by the fringe elements. And then there are those from other countries, who are so envious of the US that they constantly compare us to Nazi Germany or other oppresive regimes.

These moonbats will drive you crazy if you let them. Remember all of their dire predictions? That we would be living in a police state or rounded up in concentration camps, with ID chips implanted into our brains. How many of their wacko predictions have come true? How many times have you seen someone predict that the sky would fall on such and such a date? There is currently a thread going on with the title "Nuclear attack on America is very(!) imminent!". It has 15 flags and 145 replies, and nearly 11,000 views. This is what you work with every day, marg. Think about it.:shk:

Don't believe all the hype, marg.


Originally posted by Justin Oldham
It won't be long before we see informant hotlines advertised on t.v. and radio. "Got a tip? Stay anonnymous and call 1-800-s-t-o-p-t-e-r-r-o-r."

Many cities have anonymous crime tipster hotlines, and have had them for years. Hell, some of them even offer rewards. And with all of that gov't intrusion and Stasi-like tactics, we're not living under a police state yet.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 10:07 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky So you can dig out a few quotes that you think are somehow relevant; so what?
That's supposed to prove something? Jeezus, the competition is getting thin...


Is this a competition, then? I thought it was a civil exchange of thoughts and discussion. I mean really, if this is a competition, then I win if the US turns into a police state by the government misuse of some recently acquired powers. I sincerely don't want to win that one. I suppose I'm just pointing out the fragility of democracy and a potential for those in power to pervert their sworn mandates. It's happened before...

Finally, I was also illuminating the incongruity of your having citied Orwell as a tag, when he put so much effort into warning us of what he saw as an impending police state. Call it irony if you will.

...and most days...I'm happy to let Steven Wright do the talking for me.


[edit on 6-8-2007 by JohnnyCanuck]



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 12:41 PM
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JS how do you think Americans will feel with having snitches all over the place as neighbors, friends and family members, like this so call FBI building of network informants seems to become.

This is nothing more than fear mongering so the population will be afraid of their freedom of speech.

To become Afraid of ones elected government is the death of freedom and Democracy.


Add the fear among fellow citizens and Americans to that and you got yourself a dictatorship.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Is this a competition, then? I thought it was a civil exchange of thoughts and discussion. I mean really, if this is a competition, then I win if the US turns into a police state by the government misuse of some recently acquired powers.

I don't consider baseless comparisons of the US to Nazi Germany a civil exchange of thoughts. It's more like the ramblings of the uninformed, imo. Nothing more than an example of Godwin's law.


Originally posted by marg6043
JS how do you think Americans will feel with having snitches all over the place as neighbors, friends and family members, like this so call FBI building of network informants seems to become.

This is nothing more than fear mongering so the population will be afraid of their freedom of speech.

To become Afraid of ones elected government is the death of freedom and Democracy.


Add the fear among fellow citizens and Americans to that and you got yourself a dictatorship.



The FBI's boss gave them a job to do. Build up our HUMINT. So the FBI tells Congress that it plans to hire 15,000 informants. HUMAN Informants. The HUM part of HUMINT.

So unless you know of a better way to beef up our HUMAN Intelligence, it sounds like a pretty reasonable thing to do. Right?

As far as fear mongering and being afraid, well that's just something you're going to have to live with, marg. I've tried to help you, to no avail. I have just one more thing to say to you....



BOO!



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 08:14 PM
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Originally posted by jsobecky

BOO!


Guess what Js, it will be to you too. Unless you have a good standing with the present administration agenda and been a snitch will give you good rewards.



posted on Aug, 6 2007 @ 10:40 PM
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Wow.

Not only are they initiating an informant movement, but they are making damned sure that the public knows they are being watched.

Bush has the right to suspend elections indefinitely in the event of war or national crisis... and they've made sure you are watching for just such a thing.

All they need now is a crisis. Which I can almost guarantee there are parties in place to ensure that the crisis in question can occur un-inhibited. If and when that occurs, you will have your police state, and all the wonders of fascism that go along with a dictatorship.

I hope this doesn't carry out as they intend... or we may have just lost a free nation.

Oh well, there will always be other free nations to escape to.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by jsobeckyI don't consider baseless comparisons of the US to Nazi Germany a civil exchange of thoughts. It's more like the ramblings of the uninformed, imo. Nothing more than an example of Godwin's law.


Couple of things, here. First off, if you'll take note of the thread, there is more discussion here of the East German Stasi than the Nazis, because it is a more contemporary discussion of a state so afraid of its people that it riddles society with informants. In fact, you'll note the Oscar handed out in '07 for Best Foreign Language Film of the Year: "The Lives of Others". Not only is it a reflection of the German need to come to terms with the fact that in the DDR, folks spied on their neighbours, and when the wall fell the files were opened...it might also be considered a tale for our times.

Secondly, you'll notice that Godwin's law doesn't question the appropriateness of Nazi anologies, it simply makes the observation that usenet groups eventually get there, and cautions against our dilution of their inherant abhorance. Seems to me, though, that in a discussion of the instruments of a police state, it's kinda natural to look back to the sociopolitical experiments of the last century. After all, in the epigraph for Shirer's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" , he cited Santayana in saying "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

However, jsobecky, I admire your trust in your President and sincerely hope that all of this paranoia turns out to be twaddle.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Couple of things, here. First off, if you'll take note of the thread, there is more discussion here of the East German Stasi than the Nazis, because it is a more contemporary discussion of a state so afraid of its people that it riddles society with informants.

I see more of a people afraid of their state than the reverse. And these fears are compounded by the baseless comparison of the US to Nazis or Stasi or whatever.


Secondly, you'll notice that Godwin's law doesn't question the appropriateness of Nazi anologies, it simply makes the observation that usenet groups eventually get there, and cautions against our dilution of their inherant abhorance.

No, it simply makes the observation that it is inevitable that sooner or later the discussion will result in baseless comparisons to Germany by the uninformed.


Seems to me, though, that in a discussion of the instruments of a police state, it's kinda natural to look back to the sociopolitical experiments of the last century. After all, in the epigraph for Shirer's "Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" , he cited Santayana in saying "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

And it seems to me that those who attempt to validate their argument with cliches and quotations are usually out of ammunition, and must rely on a mock-intellectual facade to support their baseless comparisons to Germany.


However, jsobecky, I admire your trust in your President and sincerely hope that all of this paranoia turns out to be twaddle.

It's good to see that you acknowledge your paranoia. However what you interpret as trust in my president is more of a pragmatic approach to a problem.

I have seen no discussion of the real issue from you or any other paranoiac here. All you have offered is a fear of hiring 15,000 informants, and an incorrect interpretation of the purpose of hiring them. You offer cliches and quotations as "proof". Not my cup of tea, thank you.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by jsobecky I see more of a people afraid of their state than the reverse.

...and is that a natural state of affairs for an American? Not that I recall.


No, it (Godwin's law) simply makes the observation that it is inevitable that sooner or later the discussion will result in baseless comparisons to Germany by the uninformed.


Hmm...wiki ain't perfect I guess, but this is what it has to say about that:

Godwin's Law does not question whether any particular reference or comparison to Hitler or the Nazis might be appropriate, but only asserts that one arising is increasingly probable. It is precisely because such a comparison or reference may sometimes be appropriate, Godwin has argued, that overuse of Nazi and Hitler comparisons should be avoided, because it robs the valid comparisons of their impact.


Further:

However, Godwin's Law itself can be abused, as a distraction or diversion, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate. A 2005 Reason magazine article argued that Godwin's law is often misused to ridicule even valid comparisons. en.wikipedia.org...'s_Law



And it seems to me that those who attempt to validate their argument with cliches and quotations...

sorta like citing Godwin's law, I suppose...


...are usually out of ammunition, and must rely on a mock-intellectual facade to support their baseless comparisons to Germany.

I see the world around me...and for context, I had relatives in both the Gestapo and the Vopo. Forgive me if citing Shirer's monumental study of the Nazi era and Santayana in the same sentence amounts to a mock-intellectual facade. You should get out more.


It's good to see that you acknowledge your paranoia.
Haven't I asked you before to play nice? And back in the day, we said "a little paranoia is always cool"

You're right, though, we aren't getting very far here. It's time for me to fall back on my signature line.



posted on Aug, 7 2007 @ 09:03 AM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham
I'll say one thing for the kids in congress. They are certainly giving us a lot to think about. I hope that what you see here on this and other web sites will motivate you to get out and vote...while you still can.


US federal elections should incorporate international votes
Id vote



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