FBI Proposes Building Network of U.S. Informants

This may start out simple enough. Trouble is, it will grow and there's no way of stopping it once it gets started. As some of you have already pointed out, the East German Stasi was quite good at the informant thing. The Soviets in general had a great deal of 'success' with it. The proposed law that would shield informants can't be a coincidence.

Originally posted by Project_Silo
^^ well according to every major media its a fact.And i have seen 0 evidence to the contrary but have seen airport reports supporting the claims.I would call it fact that it happend.

Don't hang your hat on the mass media, especially when it comes to "facts".

There are many facts the mass media doesn't report but that doesn't make them fiction. Conversely, not all things reported by the mass media are facts.

The mass media news complex is in the business of entertaining you. Any information garnished from this entertainment is mere coincidence.

And it's worth noting that we can't "prove" that terrorist aren't doing dry runs.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by jsobecky
You can live that way if you want to. It seems that you really are afraid of the gov't.?Me, I'll just go about my business.

Remember this one, folks? It's what happens when the people become the enemy of the state.

And I'd take a really good look at the antics of the German Democratic Republic before I sought out a comfort zone, here.

This constant comparison of the US to Nazi Germany is ridiculous. It sounds good, it makes for great yellow journalism, and it's a good tactic when you don't know what you're talking about.

File your response along with the concentration camps we were supposed to be living under in the police state atmosphere.

Originally posted by marg6043
I agree Xpert this another move to separate one side of the population against the other.

Well, I disagree with you. This is a necessary chore that has to be completed because our face to face intel had been demolished in favor of satellites, by the Clinton administration. It has nothing to do with dividing the population into two sides. I mean, how can anyone disagree that this is necessary?

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
This may start out simple enough. Trouble is, it will grow and there's no way of stopping it once it gets started. As some of you have already pointed out, the East German Stasi was quite good at the informant thing. The Soviets in general had a great deal of 'success' with it. The proposed law that would shield informants can't be a coincidence.

Ah yes, the old "slippery slope" argument. Throw in a little Godwin's law for good measure.

If we failed to act on every issue that could fall down the "slippery slope", then there is precious litle that would ever get accomplished.

And this has nothing to do with the "six imams" bill.

That slippery slope is real enough to me. I suppose we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm not convinced that an official government sponsored domestic intelligence network is good for us. This new initiative, combined with an already questionable domestic spying program that deliberately steers clear of Congressional oversight doesn't sit well with me.

I hope t osee the legal challenges come sooner, rather than later. At an earlier point in our history, when more checks and balances were still in effect, I wouldn't have questioned this. I would have said it was necessary, too. With so many new precendences in play, I feel compelled to question something like this, especially when it is deigned to be carriedout by a Federal agency with a past proven track record of very intrusive spying.

Where ever he is now, J. Edgar Hoover must be laughing himself silly.

Justin I see it exactly for what it is, nobody can deny that the series of event for the last 6 years are not taking shape, everything that has been done since the excused of 9/11 and working for the people and for our safety and fighting terrorism is nothing more than control of the masses.

Sponsored domestic intelligent network has only one hidden big factor and that is to divided this nation even more from the unsatisfied masses that despised everything that this government is doing to our constitutional rights, from the ones that will be faithful to anything this government is planning for this nation.

Snitches to tell about the business of individuals that they think are dissenter.

Talk bad about this government in public, the policies the war and you could be a terrorist or more so aiding to terror and the destabilizing of Iraq.

Including the destabilizing of what the government in power is doing in America.

Can anybody be so blind as to agree with something like that? Or just like in Nazi Germany they will gladly handle the dissenter like the jews for the concentration camps.

All the hidden documents that this administration keeps from congress can not be a more blatant move to show that congress is not needed anymore.

The series of events that are taking place can not be ignore any more.

America our constitution our civil rights and our way of life is in trouble.

I know that these discussions are difficult, and some times a litle unsettling for the stomach. Some time, even I get cranked. Every now and then, I do uninentionally bend the T & C's. I applogize for that when it happens. We could not have these talks without the passion that motivates them.

I can't believe it didn't hit me until now. It's really happening. I could kind of entertain the thought, and I did believe in the transformation.... but now here's the reality of it. I'll die before this transformation is complete.

Can't blame him for trying to grab total power, with his position and connections all of us would do the same....

Originally posted by jsobecky
This constant comparison of the US to Nazi Germany is ridiculous. It sounds good, it makes for great yellow journalism, and it's a good tactic when you don't know what you're talking about.

As it happens, I have a pretty good perspective on Nazi Germany, as well as Communist Germany...so when I make my observations they are based on a reasonable foundation of facts. Just because you disagree with my conclusions, or my politics, that doesn't mean I don't know what I'm talking about. Manners, please.

Originally posted by Jvillezbank
Can't blame him for trying to grab total power, with his position and connections all of us would do the same....

I can and I do blame anyone who over steps their Constitutional authority. There are too many safeguards built in to the system. None of what has transpired over the last six years was done by accident. Best of intentions, maybe. "I'm sorry, I must have met with all those people and signed all of those documents by accident. My bad. I really should watch what I'm doing. Please, accept my apologies."

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
I'm not convinced that an official government sponsored domestic intelligence network is good for us.

Well, if the gov't doesn't run it who will?

Or are you saying that we don't need one at all?

This new initiative, combined with an already questionable domestic spying program that deliberately steers clear of Congressional oversight doesn't sit well with me.

I hope t osee the legal challenges come sooner, rather than later. At an earlier point in our history, when more checks and balances were still in effect, I wouldn't have questioned this. I would have said it was necessary, too. With so many new precendences in play, I feel compelled to question something like this, especially when it is deigned to be carriedout by a Federal agency with a past proven track record of very intrusive spying.

And when cells are found to be operating with impunity, that's when you will call for the barn door to be closed. By that time, it will be too late.

Originally posted by marg6043
Justin I see it exactly for what it is, nobody can deny that the series of event for the last 6 years are not taking shape, everything that has been done since the excused of 9/11 and working for the people and for our safety and fighting terrorism is nothing more than control of the masses.

I hate to say this marg, but the gov't couldn't care less about you or Justin. They are not out there spying on your every move, unless there's more to marg than I know about.

Talk bad about this government in public, the policies the war and you could be a terrorist or more so aiding to terror and the destabilizing of Iraq.

Uh-huh. That's why Cindy Sheehan is able to seek Nancy Pelosi's congressional seat, eh?

America our constitution our civil rights and our way of life is in trouble.

It has been in trouble since about July of 1776, marg. Thank goodness it wasn't destroyed by zealots or alarmists. That's the beauty of it - as long as we the people remain vigilant and ready, then it will survive.

But I think the alarmism that runs rampant here is more than just a case of the sword of Damocles. Sad to say, I think it runs deeper than that.

Js, you can call me paranoid, crazy or more to marg that you know but the truth is that I am nothing more than a regular everyday Spanish women, citizen a very concern citizen, that has see through the years the decline of our political system.

I am worry sick that one day America, our freedoms and what I have grown with will be gone and over with, more under this administration than ever.

Is that so bad Js? to worry so much, I can not help it, the signs are there everyday and for all to see.

Sorry if I can not turn my head to the other side and ignore them.

marg.

I doubt very much that I am being watched by any government agency. If they do it...and stay awake because I'm so confoundedly boring....I'll never know it until they come to pay me a visit. For what it's worth, I'm glad to be talking with people who don't see things the ywa I do.

I may not be losing sleep over this, but I am still concerned by it, none the less. Government sanctioned informants can and do make good spies, infiltrators, and observers. It's not going to surprise me to see people wrongly accused who are runined without recourse.

Originally posted by discomfit

Originally posted by Project_Silo
^^ well according to every major media its a fact.And i have seen 0 evidence to the contrary but have seen airport reports supporting the claims.I would call it fact that it happend.

Don't hang your hat on the mass media, especially when it comes to "facts".

There are many facts the mass media doesn't report but that doesn't make them fiction. Conversely, not all things reported by the mass media are facts.

The mass media news complex is in the business of entertaining you. Any information garnished from this entertainment is mere coincidence.

And it's worth noting that we can't "prove" that terrorist aren't doing dry runs.

Lol man you think i trust mass media?I only trust them because anything they air has a purpose.They air stuff to fit their agendas.And i believe them untill i see one drop of evidence that it didnt happen.

I dont find it absured that terrorist would be smart enough to carry out test runs.After all they supposedly did 911 right?

I will not be victem to goverment propaganda through mass media,but i will take their hints as to whats to come.I know these reports have a reason,wether its just fear(wich i dont think so since there has been an immense amount of talk about summer attacks)or the goverment is planning the next attacks,or terrorist actually do it.

I personally think they are telling us all this info so they can bomb us nd say i told you they were coming,time fir a police state and to attack Iran.

My suspicion is that many Federal officials are now feeling the need to do a little CYA. They want just a little cover just in case something actually does happen. It's worth noting that the most likely "window of opportunity for terrorism" will be during the second half of next year. Al Qaeda has already proven that they know the value of "influencing" elections.

When it comes to the FBI's network of paid informants, we need to understand that this net won't start hauling in anything good for atleast a year. It takes time to put stuff like this in place, and the informers themselves will need time to harden their covers before they can get in to position to begin passing on the intell.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Uh-huh. That's why Cindy Sheehan is able to seek Nancy Pelosi's congressional seat, eh?

Cindy Sheehan is your smoking gun? Am I the only one that finds this funny?

Will this new breed of paid FBI informant have the 'authority' to place bugs, microphones, and cameras? How much prosecutorial immunity will they really have? How much protection will they ahve from people who want to sue them for slander and libel?

Originally posted by gottago
Actually it was the Stasi secret police in the old East Germany that perfected informants.

And? If it ain't broke... What matters here is not the technique, but the purpose. Which is why most of these comparisons are irrelevant.

It's that purpose that worries me. Today, it's a terrorist cell hunt. Tomorrow, its a tool to keep the citizens in line. This may start out with the best of intetions, but I don't see that intent remaining incorruptable for very long.

Alex Jones spoke about this in hour 3 of Aug. 2 Coast to Coast AM.

I heard that segment of C2C and Alex was only able to scatch the surface of the problem in the time that he had. Having official government informants in our society will mark an important sea change that may haunt us for decades to come.

The chilling effect that this new government 'overwatch' will have on our society can't be under estimated. Free speech? I don't think so. Within ten years, we can expect that self-censorship will be the norm even more so than it is today. Forget about getting certain things published. Imagine what that could mean for venues like ATS? Many of the people and points of view you hear on the radio today will be gone when their networks decide to play it safe.