It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why do many christians focus on "evil"?

page: 1
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 09:32 PM
link   
Ok, I believe that there is no such thing as evil, only an absence of love. Think about it. People say that what Bin laden supposedly did to the world trade centers was evil, but wasn't that because he loved his people and didn't want us to influence them? To get someone mad, they had to have cared about something else in the first place. I brought this up to a Christian friend, then he asked me what about the people who enjoy killing other people, and I told him that its basically like hunting. When you hunt, you don't care about the animal, but its fun for you to kill it, so in a way its love for yourself, and an absence of love for the person or the animal. Then in desperation, he brought up the "evil" spirits that possess people, and to be honest, thats a subject I cannot relate to, so I told him Ill get back to him on that. The moral of the story is that yes there are Christians who focus on love and all of that, but why do other Christians try to convince me that there is a such thing as evil, when they should be spreading the word of love that Jesus supposedly taught?




posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 09:48 PM
link   
Ghandi once said, "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians; they are so unlike your Christ."

Christians do not follow the teachings of Christ, they follow the teachings of whatever they're told by contemporary Christian leaders. As with most, if not all religions, Christianity has become corrupted by greed and love of power. I think if people were to follow the true teachings of Christ, they would not label themselves as Christians today, due to the fact that Christianity is so far-flung from the actual teachings of Christ. Christianity is so devoid of love and peace that it's become an evil organization in my opinion.

And I, too, believe that "terrorists" do what they do because they think it is right. Christians have a history of waging war and killing people in the name of their god, too, so...all I can say is "judge not lest ye be judged". (Not trying to justify terrorism, trying to point out some hypocrisy.)

[edit on 23/7/07 by an3rkist]



posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 11:08 PM
link   
The first words we know of Jesus' ministry were, "repent for the kingdom of Heaven is near." Early in His ministry, He told Nicodemus, "I tell you the truth, no man can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." This is the answer to your question, although that may seem like a strange statement. Repentance, literally "a turning away" from that which you know, the world, your beliefs, everything. A sincere turning away, and a willingness to trust God leads to rebirth. When a person is reborn in Christ they begin a direct relationship with God and are in contact with His Holy Spirit. They do not see the world as you do anymore, a veil is lifted-- they see it is a battleground of Satan and the fallen angels against God, His angels, and against men. Since all Christians were separated from God as you are now, they can remember what it was like to view the world through your eyes, but you cannot see it through theirs. You live in deception, a web of deception, calculated and cunningly woven by powerful beings whose power and motives you do not understand. Satan twists the truth to deceive you by presenting you with seemingly rational beliefs. You cannot know the truth unless you know God, then you will understand why we believe that evil is real--we know the horrible damage it causes, not in loss of life but in the permenant separation of men from God. Christianity is not devoid of love, but you cannot truly know what love means until you have known perfected love yourself, the love of God for you. The Bible is the immediate answer to your question, it outlines God's plan through the ages for the redemptive salvation of man from the penalty of his disobedience. The cost of this gift, this salvation from our deserved penalty is without charge, it requires only a glimmer of faith.



posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 11:39 PM
link   
OK, I think a clarification is in order. "Evil" is not some kind of black gunk in people's souls, it is merely acts that are not in accordance with God's will. "Straying away" is a better term. Read this link for more info.

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 11:45 PM
link   
Christians talk about evil so it makes them feel better about screwing someone the next day after going to church and giving 5 bucks to a useless place where they all give money for no reason.

I see it this way.. Not many Christians practice what they preach.. Ironically when they do wrong it was just a mistake, and wont do it again.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 04:50 PM
link   
Thanks for your guys opinions. I agree with you ThichHeaded. I just find it funny that many Christians are labeled as "loving", while people who follow their own set of beliefs are can be labeled as "evil". Obviously this is not true.
I read the wikipedia link, and it said:"Such things as please us, we denominate good, those which displease us, evil." First off, you have to remember that people dont do things that do not please them, because if it does not please them, then there is no motive. Even if people do things out of fear
it pleases them to not have to face what they were afraid of. I mean, some people find out that they may have made the wrong choices in the long run, but thats how we learn. Instead of looking at all of the bad choices youve made as "sins" you should look at them as learning oppertunities.
Now back on to the subject of evil. Some peoples actions may displease other people, but in the persons opinion who did it, the action is always a good choice at the moment when theyre making the dicision, or else they wouldnt have done it. So basically, no one makes "evil dicisions", they are just viewed as evil.
To all of you religious people, dont tell us anything like "you wont understand until you follow the teachings of christ", and dont give me any quotes from the bible to back up your claims either. Give me some rational thoughts on why you think there is a such thing as evil, because Im giving you some rational thoughts on why I dont believe in evil. Im looking forward to hearing your thoughts.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 04:52 PM
link   
Evil is what gives them a little credibility. Without evil the world want come to an end so they can be wisked into the sky with jesus when he comes to save them from all the evil in the world.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 05:38 PM
link   
I think what truth said is write. Alot of the time though you hear all this because parts of its write and parts of its wrong. The most that we hear are from churches and religion that want you to believe what they want you. But not what the bible says. They use the bible as a stand point then twist everthings to make themselves feel better.

As for evil in the world you hear it all the time cuz its here. This is a battle between god and the devil, its about souls. The bible says the gates to hell are wide and open, to me it means it easy to get to hell. And that more will go to hell than heaven. That means this battle on earth we will see much more evil than good. And I dont know about you, but I have seen diffently more bad than good. The problem is yes when in teaching sometimes people talk about the bad rather than the good in the bible. God is mad, He sent is son to earth and they kill him, not only that most of the world in lew of it are still bad.

End the end I think most of the time hearing the bad, comes from preachers and people from churches being brain washed. The bad and evil is a way to scare people to go to church and be in their religion.

When in the end we should be teaching the gospel. Jesus really didnt tell people your going to hell.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 05:45 PM
link   

Originally posted by BigPimpin
Ok, I believe that there is no such thing as evil, only an absence of love.


Thats surely a lovely thought
But the truth of the matter is this. Let me paint you a picture here.. A preist takes a young boy into his office. Pulls out his penis and says suck it my child! Now is that absense of love or an evil deed?
Sorry if that creeps anyone out, or offends you but its the truth and has happened over and over agin.

Then you have your good guy preists who dont molest young boys but hire hookers and smoke crack in motel rooms, then goes back to church and says the oppisite of what he just did the night before?

Or preists who take money to better their own lives.. I say this money is at the root of all evil, and the church sure has alot of money..



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 07:00 PM
link   


Thats surely a lovely thought But the truth of the matter is this. Let me paint you a picture here.. A preist takes a young boy into his office. Pulls out his penis and says suck it my child! Now is that absense of love or an evil deed?


No offense here. Excellent point. There's no down playing those actions. That's about as clear a point one could make without getting to graphic.

BigPimpin. Hypotheticaly speaking, if someone locked you up and tortured you for months keeping you alive just to serve there pleasure what would you call that? (no personal attack intended.only for discussion sake
).

What about serial killers and the like. If there is no evil, which is the opposite of good. What do you deem their actions.

If you believe in God . Then the absence of God is nothingness. If God is love and all powerfull and good, then one might base the opinion that all good things come from God. Our human minds cannot comprehend nothingness, therefore we give it a name. Evil. The opposite of the presence or favor of God.




When you hunt, you don't care about the animal, but its fun for you to kill it, so in a way its love for yourself, and an absence of love for the person or the animal.


First off, I understand your scenario, but IMO killing an animal and taking a human life are two entirely different matters. And I hope your not hunting just for the fun of killing.
So what do you call a self mutilator? Many of them love to cut themselves to pieces, and wouldn't think twice about cutting you or I. Or even suicide. I find it hard to believe that they love themseves.


The moral of the story is that yes there are Christians who focus on love and all of that, but why do other Christians try to convince me that there is a such thing as evil, when they should be spreading the word of love that Jesus supposedly taught?


Because what we deem "evil" is the enemy of God. And if you stand with God you should know your enemy. Therefore being aware of the presence of things that are not of God. Without sounding militant, just as a good soldier would do.

You are a 100% right. Christians should be worried about spreading the Gospel of Christ and His "love" than trying to convince the world it's an evil place. And yes there are alot of hypocrites in Christianity. But you have those types in any religion, institution, cult, ect....

Good topic. It was really hard not to pull info from the bible to discuss as you wished.


To all of you religious people, dont tell us anything like "you wont understand until you follow the teachings of christ", and dont give me any quotes from the bible to back up your claims either. Give me some rational thoughts on why you think there is a such thing as evil, because Im giving you some rational thoughts on why I dont believe in evil. Im looking forward to hearing your thoughts.





posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 09:36 PM
link   
You insult Christians, and expect a response? You belong to majority of people nowdays, who think that they are "cool" when they show hatred towards Christians.

Be brave, insult Jews and Muslims the same way...let us see how brave you really are.

I wish all the best to all of you.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 09:42 PM
link   

Originally posted by swimmer
You insult Christians, and expect a response? You belong to majority of people nowdays, who think that they are "cool" when they show hatred towards Christians.

Be brave, insult Jews and Muslims the same way...let us see how brave you really are.

I wish all the best to all of you.


Woah, back up now, who insulted you? And why do you think you're post offered anything to this discussion? Please dont come here and start pointing fingers without being clear as to who you speak of and why?

This topic post was not Why do Jews/Muslims focus on "evil"

If your a christian please speak your mind! Its why we are here, to understand more points of view. If you just throw a comment like that and say best to all of you? Whats the point?
What are you really saying, I wont put words in your mouth, so please tell us?

You think its "cool to show hate? There is nothing cool about that my friend.



posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 12:13 AM
link   
Big, sometimes people are taught through church doctrine that humans are by nature sinful and unholy. How to get rid of this sinful unholy nature before you die involves various doctrines again.

A couple things:
Bin Laden can be said to be a religious terrorist. He was a follower of Qutbism, which part of its doctrine advocates violence. Instead of explaining Bin Laden's manifesto to the American people, the easy yet false way to explain 9/11 is to say that he hates America's freedoms. Ghandi practiced with love; Bin Laden practices with hate.

Hmmm, hunting an animal...you could care about the animal yet hunt for food. Buying frozen chicken parts wrapped in plastic just eliminates the hunt for the consumer. Killing a human is way different.

Oh, also, someone who "cuts" themselves is in very, very much emotional pain. They do not fully experience self-love.

There are bad things in this world, but there are good things too. Most people are capable of making choices as to how they want to live. Sometimes, these choices of wanting to live Life in a better way do come from learning the hard way.

Maybe it boils down to this, do you practice with love or with hate?



posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 01:54 AM
link   
It's human nature, we define our existence that way. Like it said in matrix

Just look at news and society in general.



posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 05:53 AM
link   

Originally posted by highfreq

If you believe in God . Then the absence of God is nothingness. If God is love and all powerfull and good, then one might base the opinion that all good things come from God. Our human minds cannot comprehend nothingness, therefore we give it a name. Evil. The opposite of the presence or favor of God.


Exactly, I couldnt have said it better myself. Thats what I mean by theres no such thing as evil, only an absence of love. Everyone sees evil as the complete opposite of love (or of god), when in fact all evil is is a neutralground, where there are no feelings of love (or for god)whatsoever. When I was talking about the hunting scenario, I knew that torturing a human and killing an animal are on two completely different levels, but when were talking about people who kill other people for no apparent reason, are the intentions all that different? When I said that some murderers kill people out of "love for themselves", I didnt mean that the murderers kill people because they like themselves consciously. I meant that they want to pleasure themselves, and people want to pleasure those who they love. In the type of scenario Im talking about here, there is absolutely no love (or hate for that matter) for the other person who is being killed, and this is where the "there is no such thing as evil, only an absence of love" saying comes into play. Yes, I believe that the actions of murderers are wrong, and they should definately be punished for what they do. This is what I believe though. What if 99% of the world thought murder wasnt evil? What if the people who died became free to roam the spirit world, and they ended up much happier? While the second part is probably true, the first part isnt. But what if it was? would murder still be viewed upon as evil? Of course not, because evil is something that we have created by how we precieve the world were living in. And to change this, we need to learn how to love everyone, not just certain individuals, because that is what makes "evil" in the first place.

P.S. Good points Highfreq, I can tell youre intelligent, and I appreciate you not using quotes from the bible. Ill get back to you on the priest thing because Im tired and I wanna go to bed.



posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 06:09 AM
link   
The fact is , there is evil out there and we have to fight it, with prayer and speaking TRUTH! Yes christians can make mistakes. In my early twenties as a new convert, I made some bad choices. (sleeping with my boyfriend,drinking too much,smoking) Now that I'm older and wiser I've learned patience and dicipline. (I've been married 12 yrs. with several sons) Even before that I had to make a decision to come out from among the world and be seperate.(by living here but not being "typical")


It takes hard words to wake someone up who is in a downward spiral.But we have to obey the bible and do it with love!!! That's Jesus' command to us. Anything you say to a young rebel, he/she can turn around and say "You hate me!" I did that as a teenager, but I grew up!!!

I know many atheists, nominal christians and occultists think we should be nuns and monks somewhere, doing good deeds under a vow of silence, holed up in a fort in the mountains, but who is that helping?

The fact is we must love people enough to go where they are and speak the truth in love. Making a difference! Reaching out our hands to the needy. Did you realize christians give the most to shelters, ministries that help poor and all kinds of organizations???

When was the last time you you did?

Sometimes the truth hurts, but if you accept it, you can be helped!



posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 06:17 AM
link   
Oh, sorry! This is GeneralT.s' wife, A.T.S. automatically took me to his account so I posted under his name! (It's a bit early for me)



posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 06:36 PM
link   

Originally posted by GeneralT.
Did you realize christians give the most to shelters, ministries that help poor and all kinds of organizations???


Now ask yourself how many people have been slaughtered in the name of Christianity and see which one offsets which...

Christians must focus on evil because if evil were not the rampant epidemic they claim it is they would have no justification for their threats of "obey or spend an eternity in damnation".

[edit on 26/7/07 by an3rkist]



posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 07:21 PM
link   


I didnt mean that the murderers kill people because they like themselves consciously. I meant that they want to pleasure themselves, and people want to pleasure those who they love.


Here's where my mind runs into a parodox. I think we both can agree that if the above mentioned murderer kills another out of pleasure for themselves, that it would be safe to say there is no love shown to the person being killed? So as you stated "pleasure themselves, and people want to pleasure those who they love." So I would think we can conclude that the murderer has love for himself. So if the murderer has the capacity to love then the murderer would not necessarilly be existing in nothingness? So I ask myself is the murderer acting of killing within the presence of God/love.
This makes me wonder if love is a sigularity or a metaphor for another force?
And I hate to go there, but makes me ponder whether outside, un seen forces are at work .ie demon possesion and the such.




posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 11:01 PM
link   

Originally posted by GeneralT.
The fact is , there is evil out there and we have to fight it, with prayer and speaking TRUTH!



Yes I agree, but if evil is only an absence of love (or an absence of god as highfreq said), then what is there to fight? rather than looking for something to fight, we should learn to love everyone and god. I know this sounds outrageous, but there sure seem to be people who hate everyone, so why not discipline ourselves to do the opposite. If we learn to love everyone, then we will not hurt anyone, because we will care about everyone. I know definitely not everyone will be able to discipline themselves into doing this, but if even one person does, it will make the world a better place by one person.


Originally posted by GeneralT.
The fact is we must love people enough to go where they are and speak the truth in love. Making a difference! Reaching out our hands to the needy. Did you realize christians give the most to shelters, ministries that help poor and all kinds of organizations???

When was the last time you you did?



Ya, I realize that Christians do alot of great things, but I also realize that religion has also been responsible for many deaths. I'm not trying to exploit the negative aspects of religion, but I'm not going to ignore them either. While there are many Christians who give unconditional love like what you said, there are also other Christians who bash other religions, homosexuals, minorities, etc. Considering that evil is an absence of god or love, do these people have love for people of other religions, sexual nature, etc? No, because these types of Christians believe that the people that are different from them are "against god". Do these people have love for god? yes they do (believe it or not). Someone might ask "If an absence of love and an absence of god are both evil, then how can you have an absence of love for people, but not have an absence of god? Can it be that the way those type of Christians view god is a bit "evil"? Absolutely, and thats what I have a problem with. Although I see that religion does help alot of people out, I believe there are definitely better alternatives, which don't have so much negativity.

And I always try to reach my hands out to people whenever I have the opportunity to. I'm 19 years old, and I'm trying to get into medicine, because I believe that will be a great job where I will be able to help many many people. I am also planning on donating to charities too, but before I do that I must set a strong foundation for my life, because if I do that, I will have much more power to help people in the long run.

Good conversation GeneralT



new topics

top topics



 
1
<<   2 >>

log in

join