Why the big fuss over secrecy?

To Colloneh7

Hey your last post was an Ad Hominem argument. That's where you attack the person(s) making the argument, rather than adressing the factual information presented.

You also mentioned you know alot about freemasonry. You haven't demonstrated any knowlege of freemasonry which can't be found by a simple web serch.

If you where an administrator here what would you do? We are all adults on this site you can speak freely.

Also freemasons come to this site because it is interesting. I am a freemason to be fair. Also, if the people on this board are so called "trolls" with less than savory tactics, why are you still posting?

Colloneh 7: we are not ganging up on you here. I understand where you are coming from, philosophically. I read a lot of books pointing out some kind of masonic conspiracy myself. Ive done my homework, Ive looked into the theory. I know all about the albert pike - lucifer connection.

So when I oppose the masonic-conspiracy theory I am coming from a place of having actually researched it with an open mind.

So, having read all the conspiracy stuff, why do I not buy it? Because it just doesnt add up at all. I tried to believe it, but it doesnt add up. And the SOURCE of this type of theory is suspicious to say the least. "freemasonry is a conspiracy" is an idea that originates with fundamentalist christianity that sees satan everywhere, and by nazis who see jews everywhere. So the thinking went: "Well, if these idiots oppose freemasonry, then freemasonry must be something good".

I dont mean to invalidate your religious beliefs, but see if you can dig deeper than books and websites and actually get to know some of these alleged "satan worshippers" personally. You will find that they are decent and well-meaning people who, after decades of being masons, still have not become aware of any evil within their group.

I confess, I know little about Free Masonary. Scoiety is made by a set of bonds, between a plethora of individuals, we all have secrets. I have secrets with people I know, some very personal, some more about others. I suspect the Masons know a lot about other people, give each other the odd promotion, but when things go really wrong, get together and pull something off. Because they have the bonds and the networks. You pay a price to have someone watching over you, and that is the glass ceiling. That is the major problem with the Masons.

Colloneh7:

Are you unable or unwilling to respond to my posts? I see you've posted other stuff since yesterday, and seemingly ignored my replies to your posts... again.

Any chance you might get around to it, or do you give up?

[edit on 8/1/07 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by redled
I confess, I know little about Free Masonary.

So did I, at one time.

I suspect the Masons know a lot about other people, give each other the odd promotion, but when things go really wrong, get together and pull something off. Because they have the bonds and the networks.

Why would you think that Masons would know alot about other people? I assume by "other people" you mena non-Masons? The bonds and networks you speak of, how do you suspect they would be used to this end? Could they not be simply bonds of friendship? Why must there be some nefarious air to the idea of Masonic bonds and "networks?" Honestly, these questions are in earnest. Is it just that people fear the unknown?

You pay a price to have someone watching over you, and that is the glass ceiling. That is the major problem with the Masons.

I'm not quite sure i know what you mean. Could you elaborate on the "glass ceiling" idea a bit?

Regards.

"I suspect the Masons know a lot about other people, give each other the odd promotion, but when things go really wrong, get together and pull something off. Because they have the bonds and the networks. "

That's not so far fetched, given what my father-in-law recently revealed to me about the power of masonic membership within a society. Also, I've heard from another credible source that if you have the Masonic symbols say like on the back window of your truck and you get pulled over by a cop who happens to be a Freemason, there is a good chance he will let you off with a warning.

Originally posted by spirit7
"I suspect the Masons know a lot about other people, give each other the odd promotion, but when things go really wrong, get together and pull something off. Because they have the bonds and the networks. "

That's not so far fetched, given what my father-in-law recently revealed to me about the power of masonic membership within a society. Also, I've heard from another credible source that if you have the Masonic symbols say like on the back window of your truck and you get pulled over by a cop who happens to be a Freemason, there is a good chance he will let you off with a warning.

I suppose that is possible, but I certainly wouldn't count on it. Best to try not to get pulled over at all.

So did you ever confirm whether your Father-in-law is a Freemason or not?

Originally posted by spirit7
"I suspect the Masons know a lot about other people, give each other the odd promotion, but when things go really wrong, get together and pull something off. Because they have the bonds and the networks. "

That's not so far fetched, given what my father-in-law recently revealed to me about the power of masonic membership within a society. Also, I've heard from another credible source that if you have the Masonic symbols say like on the back window of your truck and you get pulled over by a cop who happens to be a Freemason, there is a good chance he will let you off with a warning.

I think a lot more of that went on in the 40's and 50's than today; I can say at my company, which employs about 350 people, I think I'm the only Mason. It certainly hasn't helped my career, and that's not why I joined to begin with. Keep in mind too that there is a big generation gap in Masonry today as well; you have the old timers and Gen-X (and younger) people, but not as many from the "Boomer" era.

As far as speeding tickets... well it doesn't help as much as you would think. I know a few cops, and one of the ones I know (not a Mason) pulled me over for speeding on the highway near my house, and just gave me a warning. But, last summer I had an Ohio State Trooper with a Masonic ring give me a ticket for 77 in a 65 on my way to work. I have a Masonic license plate, so I doubt that there was any confusion! I wouldn't expect a police officer to not do his job just because he is a fellow Mason.

Likewise, in my job, I would not hire a less qualified candidate if he were a Mason over a more qualified candidate, nor would I award a contract to someone just because he was a Mason.

Nothing seems to be a secret anymore, We seem to be living in a world where we can access any piece of information just with our finger tips isn't life great

Originally posted by an3rkist

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
They keep financially solvent by attracting new dues paying members and keeping existing members active and paying dues.

If an organization cannot rely on its members to support its existence, who can it rely on?

(Not always the first to defend Freemasonry, but I find your logic somewhat flawed.)

How do you find my logic flawed when we both agree Masonry depends on its members to support its existence? We both must admit that the membership of masonry or any organization is never static. Members of lodges get old and die, move to new cities, lose interest in the lodge, become unable to participate due to other commitments like family or work, etc. Since old members are leaving, new members must join the lodge and take fill their roles if the lodge is going to survive.

Those of you that claim masonry opens up career opportunities are perhaps over estimating masonic membership in career advancement and under estimating membership in other organizations. While it is true that if you join a masonic lodge, you become a member of a social network that could potentially advance your career, the same can be said for other organizations like churches and other clubs. Furthermore, masons are under the same pressures in the work place that everyone else is. A mason is not going to hire an incompetent person just because that person is a fellow mason because mason is going to need the person he hires to perform well.

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint

Originally posted by an3rkist

Originally posted by hotpinkurinalmint
They keep financially solvent by attracting new dues paying members and keeping existing members active and paying dues.

If an organization cannot rely on its members to support its existence, who can it rely on?

(Not always the first to defend Freemasonry, but I find your logic somewhat flawed.)

How do you find my logic flawed when we both agree Masonry depends on its members to support its existence? We both must admit that the membership of masonry or any organization is never static. Members of lodges get old and die, move to new cities, lose interest in the lodge, become unable to participate due to other commitments like family or work, etc. Since old members are leaving, new members must join the lodge and take fill their roles if the lodge is going to survive.

The reason I find the logic flawed is that you cannot use this as an excuse to criticize Freemasonry. I was not questioning the validity of your statement, just the relevance. All organizations must rely on their members for financial support, otherwise they would not exist. Everything you said in your above response is fairly obvious; and is typical, (if not a literal requisite), of every existing organization. To say the things you've said as a way to criticize the Masonic organization says to me that you are running out of legitimate ways to do so.

If the things you've said are somehow damning to the Masonic organization, then every organization that exists today, including any you may be a member of, are all guilty of the same said crime.

[edit on 29/8/07 by an3rkist]

i think the idea of secrecy has to do with keeping things from being profoundly misinterpreted by those whos own personal biases may attach some sort of negative thought to a particular form of symbolism that is not meant to be read into as negative tho scociological conditioning has made such travesties possible and more often than not very probable. as well some symbology may be very simplistic and some may read into it more deeply than is originally intended and some things symbolically may seem very superficial for example the name lucifer to most brings up ideas of the devil satan and such but in historical terms lucifer is originally translated to mean "light bearer" and is also accociated with figures such as prometheous who stole fire from the gods or what i interpret as free thinking being gifted to mankind but i think the devilish connection occured because just like many scientific discoveries most can be used for both good or negative purposes and too many times is the good forshadowed by the events that pccur because of a lackthereof. basicly prometheus may have brought fire to mankind but not only does it warm us but it has the potential to destroy us and many a person overlooks the warmth and only sees the apocalypse primarily due to personal fears. hope that makes some sense, as always im not the best at organizeing my writeings so i hope this initself is not misinterpreted