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Why the big fuss over secrecy?

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posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 09:58 PM
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I'm not sure that I would call any real truth "dangerous", though I would say that one must work his/her way up to certain truths in order to fully understand them. I don't think it is the right of any organization to deny people of these higher truths "until they are ready", though. If someone makes the mistake of exposing themselves to a truth they are not ready for, it will only serve to be a learning experience.

Experiences are rarely, if ever, in my opinion, a hindrance to advancement or progress.

Now, what I think is happening here, at least for me, is that it's becoming evident that the Masons do not lay claim to truths that are not available through other mediums. This would suggest to me that it's alright for them to have levels of secrecy amongst their members, because it would basically be the choice of its members to be ignorant to certain truths until the organization deems them ready.

The problem with secrecy would be if the Masons had wisdom or knowledge that was in their possession and not that of others. It would be as if the Masons felt some kind of ownership of the truth. This is where the secrecy becomes sinister. It should be the expressed choice of the individual to remain ignorant to certain truths until they are ready. I also think, (though this philosophy is somewhat more difficult to understand), that it should be the individual who decides when they are ready. If they choose to let someone else decide, based on their respect for that individual or organization, then that is their choice.

So it all comes down to whether or not the secrets held are distinctly Masonic, in my opinion. According to what I've been reading, this is not the case. However, that is not to suggest that that is not what the Masonic organization would LIKE to be the case. If the Masonic organization would LIKE for the truth to be theirs and theirs alone, this would still serve to give me a bad impression of the supposed benevolent goals of the Craft.

This, in my opinion, is the answer to the OP's original question of why secrecy is such a big deal: If someone is in possession of, or believes they are in possession of truth, and guards it jealously, they are committing a crime against humanity. That's my answer to the original question, though I'm not sure if it's really much of an answer at all.

[edit on 26/7/07 by an3rkist]




posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 10:22 PM
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Everybody, to some degree has some secrecy in their lives. For example, lovers usually do not tell the whole world what they do in their bedroom. Families and corporations keep secrets too, as well as friends.

If you have a close group of friends or a family, the group is going to have certain behaviors that may be indicative of, or help create and maintain, close bonds. The group may have its own slang, unusual rituals, and secrets. For example, the group of friends you knew since childhood may have a unique word for beer, you may all paint your favorite team's name on your bellies when you go to football games, and you may have secrets you keep amongst eachother like what happened at your bachelor party or information about other friends' innermost thoughts about life, aspirations, and love that were told in strict confidence.

Organizations like Masonry try and mimic the behaviors close friends have with the rationale these behaviors will create and maintain bonds, rather than being merely a sign of the bonds. So by incorporating strange language (secret passwords and not so secret specialized language like names of degrees and offices), rituals, and secrecy into the organization, the masons are mimicing behaviors that close friends exhibit.

Therefore, secrecy may be less about world domination and concealing shameful acts and more about people seeking meaningful friendships.



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
The problem with secrecy would be if the Masons had wisdom or knowledge that was in their possession and not that of others. It would be as if the Masons felt some kind of ownership of the truth. This is where the secrecy becomes sinister. It should be the expressed choice of the individual to remain ignorant to certain truths until they are ready. I also think, (though this philosophy is somewhat more difficult to understand), that it should be the individual who decides when they are ready. If they choose to let someone else decide, based on their respect for that individual or organization, then that is their choice.


Well, your grain of salt notwithstanding, there are no secrets of Masonry like the ones you describe. And it IS the choice of the individual to remain ignorant, if they do not seek. We're not in the business of seeking out members. A man must come to the lodge and ASK to be admitted, then go through the process just like anyone else. Petition, visit with a few members; if the lodge elects you to receive the degrees, then you go through them. Masonry aside, if a person just does the research diligently, the "secrets" you seem to covet are readily available. You just have to figure out where to look. That is where the desire of the individual to find what they are looking for comes in.

The only "secrets" Masonry claims as its own are, as has been stated here 1,345,822 times already, the modes of recognition. Period. EVERYTHING else is available through non-Masonic avenues. There are tons of books that have been written on the subject, some of them great, some of them not-so great, and some that are downright silly. It's up to the individual to decide for himself what he believes to be true or not.

Here's the obligatory link: www.masonicinfo.com...

People can say what they will about that site, but as you will surely be able to tell if you examine my posting history here, I started out just like you (minus the atheism/anarchy thing); curious as to what exactly Masonry is all about. That site went a long way to helping me to understand and weed through the BS (i.e. Freemasonrywatch.com, etc.). I can tell you that even before I was a member I had satisfied myself that I knew what it was more or less about. I found all the information I could hope to find and came to a decision to join, because I greatly respected the institution and the men I had known that had been members in their lifetimes. I literaly read, researched and asked questions for over a year before I finally petitioned. It was not something entered into lightly. When I was ready, I asked. It was as simple as that.

So, in short, it IS the individual who decides when they are ready. When that time comes, Masonry stands, as always, with her arms wide open to welcome the seeker to the fold and unveil her mysteries. No person or organization has a monopoly on the truth. It is out there to find, should you choose to seek it in earnest.

Make sense?



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
I'm not sure that I would call any real truth "dangerous", though I would say that one must work his/her way up to certain truths in order to fully understand them.


Providing one has done the necessary work as you mention, then I agree. There is no danger at all, just as there is no danger in the master marksman cleaning his gun.



I don't think it is the right of any organization to deny people of these higher truths "until they are ready", though. If someone makes the mistake of exposing themselves to a truth they are not ready for, it will only serve to be a learning experience.


Let us take, for example, an evangelical fundamentalist. Suppose we pull him off the street, and begin to elaborate the Secret Doctrines to him. We tell him that his God is a symbol of a natural universal force, as is his devil. We explain to him the concepts of emanation, and other mysteries that encompass knowledge.

Instead of assisting in his liberation, what we have done is made an enemy. He will accuse us of blasphemy and heresy, and will oppose any teachings that do not already reinforce his paradigm. Therefore, it is not as if teaching in the traditional manner, involving a certain amount of secrecy and degrees of learning, is only one of many different ways to do it. In reality, it is the only way that can have a beneficial effect. One's paradigm must first be loosened. Only then can he approach a subject with unbiased openness.

Initiation assists in loosening the profane paradigm. This makes initiation, in itself, a magical act. Ceremonies of initiation as found within the various Mystery Schools can have a profound effect on the psyche. This is why some Masonic authors who are also occultists refer to the process as "Masonic Science".

This is also why most people who are initiated today get nothing out of their experience. They are simply not ready to learn, and guard their own prejudices inherent within their paradigms. If one is truly ready, he must be the Alchemist of himself, ready to be transformed.



Now, what I think is happening here, at least for me, is that it's becoming evident that the Masons do not lay claim to truths that are not available through other mediums. This would suggest to me that it's alright for them to have levels of secrecy amongst their members, because it would basically be the choice of its members to be ignorant to certain truths until the organization deems them ready.


Masonry is only one of many societies that teach the Kabalah and Hermeticism in various forms. It is also possible for solitary students to attain to the same knowledge through the study of Hermetic documents, and by practicing the recommended procedures. However, I personally believe that the solitary manner is more difficult. Even though in the end, each must do the Work him or herself, it is also very nice to hold fellowship with those of kindred minds, including the more experienced who can assist if any questions or concerns arise.



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by corsig
Maybe the truth is what we do behind closed doors is none of any one's business.

Simple as that.

Done.



if that were the case, I have the sneaking suspicion that there would be a whole lot less people walking the Earth.

Not to mention the rape, molestation, etc etc.

Jasn



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 08:46 AM
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Originally posted by SimiusDei
if that were the case, I have the sneaking suspicion that there would be a whole lot less people walking the Earth.

Not to mention the rape, molestation, etc etc.

Jasn


Do you mind being more clear on what you are saying? The implications of your statement tend to rouse a rather hostile image in my mind.

Are you saying that you believe Masons are murderers, rapists, and molestors?

I resent and defy such a statement.

Obviously, you have no idea what you are talking about if you are trying to say what I think you are.



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 08:48 AM
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Originally posted by SimiusDei

Originally posted by corsig
Maybe the truth is what we do behind closed doors is none of any one's business.

Simple as that.

Done.



if that were the case, I have the sneaking suspicion that there would be a whole lot less people walking the Earth.

Not to mention the rape, molestation, etc etc.

Jasn


I think I need to think about what you said a little more. I think I understand what you meant Your reasoning is (I think) that a group behind closed doors could be dangerous which could lead to what you mentioned above however that is if the group in question is indeed dangerous to begin with.

My point was the what the Masons do behind closed doors is our business just like what you do behind your closed doors is your business and we both have the right to have this privacy.

There is no reason to think that what we do would lead to rape, molestation etc etc, unless what you do behind closed doors is plotting these things.



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 02:45 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic LightLet us take, for example, an evangelical fundamentalist. Suppose we pull him off the street, and begin to elaborate the Secret Doctrines to him. We tell him that his God is a symbol of a natural universal force, as is his devil. We explain to him the concepts of emanation, and other mysteries that encompass knowledge.


But if you leave that man to his own devices, the chance of him ever coming to the truth himself is minimal. You even said yourself that having somebody else with experience help us along is beneficial. Where is the line drawn between helping to open someone's mind and educate them and giving them information that is potentially dangerous?

(I might also beg the question that if this thing you have stated is a belief of Masonry, "why do they require the belief in a supreme being in the first place?" but I dare not skew the subject matter of this thread.)


Instead of assisting in his liberation, what we have done is made an enemy. He will accuse us of blasphemy and heresy, and will oppose any teachings that do not already reinforce his paradigm...

...One's paradigm must first be loosened. Only then can he approach a subject with unbiased openness.


“You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.” -Winston Churchill

(I love quotes, whether or not they are one hundred percent relevant.)

Making enemies is not a hindrance to anyone's progression in my opinion. Opposition leads to progress. Not just for yourself, but as the other party is "ambushed" by outside theories, it will break down the barriers of his paradigm, if only by small pieces at a time. If he opposes the philosophies or wisdom outright, it has done nothing to hinder his potential progression in the long run, but has simply failed temporarily. He may fortify his walls even more, but they will be built on a less stable foundation, and thus become more prone to advancing armies of truth. Just a theory, but it seems sound to me.

[edit on 27/7/07 by an3rkist]



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist


But if you leave that man to his own devices, the chance of him ever coming to the truth himself is minimal. You even said yourself that having somebody else with experience help us along is beneficial. Where is the line drawn between helping to open someone's mind and educate them and giving them information that is potentially dangerous?


I think that now we have stumbled upon a very important key. In Masonic language, we say that the initiate must come "of his own free will and accord". This act must be performed by the individual. Again, it is a magical act, an act of Will. It demonstrates that the person is, at least superficially, ready to learn.

This is also why the Mystery Schools, including Masonry, do not recruit new members. Although, to be honest, I hate this "2B1Ask1" stuff, it nevertheless demonstrates that the individual himself must make the choice of his own free will, and request admission. In my jurisdiction, applications for initiation begin with: "Gentlemen, being desirous of becoming acquainted with the mysteries of Free Masonry...." This shows that the individual, at least in theory, wants to learn something.


(I might also beg the question that if this thing you have stated is a belief of Masonry, "why do they require the belief in a supreme being in the first place?" but I dare not skew the subject matter of this thread.)


Freemasonry requires a belief in God, but makes no inquiry as to what the solicitant believes God actually is.




“You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.” -Winston Churchill

(I love quotes, whether or not they are one hundred percent relevant.)


Me too, hahaha. Churchill was also a Brother Mason.

But if our task is to assist in liberation, then we fail if we make an enemy, and turn him hostile toward the Holy Doctrine.

Anyway, before I becoming a Mason, I was a member of Builders of the Adytum. This organization is partially responsible for me deciding to request Masonic initiation, although it itself is a non-Masonic society, and admits both men and women of full age and of good report. It is a Mystery School which explores these subjects in more depth than Freemasonry does, although many of our male members, including our late founder, are and were Masons. A belief in God is not specifically required for membership. Although "God" is often used in BOTA rituals and literature, one is free to substitute "Life Force", or whatever. I invite you to explore the website, and welcome your comments on it.



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
Anyway, before I becoming a Mason, I was a member of Builders of the Adytum...I invite you to explore the website, and welcome your comments on it.


First of all, I was disturbed by the fact that this group refers to themselves as a "non-profit corporation", rather than a non-profit organization. It may be irrational, but the word "corporation" will never sit well with me.

I also was disheartened by the fact that they refer to themselves as a religion. I've always been under the impression that Freemasonry claims it is NOT a religion, and I have great respect for this claim. As Cug put it in another thread, I'm very anti-religioun. (Although I'm also an atheist Cug.) This BOTA group, however, feels it important to refer to themselves as a religion. The negative connotation that go along with this stigma, to me, are hard to excuse.

In addition to that, although I'm open to various mystical practices, Tarot is a practice that I'm extremely reluctant to consider valid. A deck of cards could only serve to provide information to me if the powers of the universe themselves were to shuffle the cards and pull each card out one by one. The fact that the individual does this suggests to me that Tarot is a practice based on the interpretation of chance. I don't deny that this could prove invaluable in some aspects, but basing any belief structure or even philosophy on Tarot is a major mistake in my opinion.

Not that this is a warranted reason to shy away from BOTA, but the reference to "Holy of Holies", (which I have reason to assume is also used in Freemasonry), is a term which will never cease to remind me of Mormonism, a religion which I was raised in and will never have any respect for. I cannot blame BOTA for this, but it bothers me nonetheless.

I also found it disheartening that one of the links on the website was "Pay membership dues". If the dues are for nothing but to pay for the facilities utilized by members, then why should the dues be paid to the owners of this website, rather than to the members' local facility?

I was curious as to the meaning of "The Hermit" Tarot card, and was impressed by what it represents. It served to dampen some of the blows that the BOTA website had already dealt me. It's an extremely appropriate card to use as a metaphor for their stated reason for being.

I notice that the "Sunday service" is open to the public. The closest advertised BOTA location to me is in Houston. Perhaps if I am ever in Houston on a Sunday I shall pay a visit to BOTA, though I'm skeptical of the true benefits of being a member. I was indeed hoping you had linked me to an organization of esoteric learning that would fall more in line with my own personal qualms toward organized religion and corporations, but I suppose that may be too much to ask.

Off topic somewhat, isn't a "bota" one of those leather containers for alcohol? Is there some correlation?


[edit on 27/7/07 by an3rkist]


Cug

posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
(Although I'm also an atheist Cug.)


he I'm a atheist and a member of a religion.




In addition to that, although I'm open to various mystical practices, Tarot is a practice that I'm extremely reluctant to consider valid. ....

... but basing any belief structure or even philosophy on Tarot is a major mistake in my opinion.


Esoterically the Tarot is primarily a picture book. It's use in divination is secondary and one could even call it a profane practice. (I almost never use the Tarot for divination) In my own person use you could say the Tarot is a kind of Qabalistic flash cards. For example that's a tarot card in my avatar that pretty much explains the basics of Thelema.



I also found it disheartening that one of the links on the website was "Pay membership dues". If the dues are for nothing but to pay for the facilities utilized by members, then why should the dues be paid to the owners of this website, rather than to the members' local facility?


Those dues basically pay for the lessons you receive in the mail. if you are a member of a physical temple (or whatever BOTA calls them) I believe you will have dues to cover those costs.


I was indeed hoping you had linked me to an organization of esoteric learning that would fall more in line with my own personal qualms toward organized religion and corporations, but I suppose that may be too much to ask.


For what it's worth, I have seen many people who had the same doubts you seem to have about esoteric groups/beliefs/etc... and they seem to have found it works for them. Just keep asking questions and do some reading abut it. eventually you will find out if it's for you or not.




[edit on 7/27/2007 by Cug]



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 04:51 AM
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Well, I'm too lazy to articulate myself at this point, so I will leave it to someone far better at it than I...



[edit on 28-7-2007 by Colloneh7]


Cug

posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 05:13 AM
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Originally posted by Colloneh7
Well, I'm too lazy to articulate myself at this point, so I will leave it to someone far better at it than I...


You mean the very same president who was a member of a secret society?



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 05:53 AM
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When you have a group that's been around years and years, has connections to many powerful, influential people in the world and a lot of "evil" has occured by people a part of this group, then people have a good reason to wonder what's going on behind your closed doors.

Then you have the people that have been in your group and got high enough to see the real intention of said group and got out of it. Then went on to try warning people. You can't ignore things like that.

How secretive some of you are talking about it with your cryptic answers just makes others wonder even more.

If it's nothing more than a simple group of close friends with no hidden agenda to rule the world or whatever, then what secrets are there to keep?

It's a known fact that most of your members have no clue how high the degree of your society actually goes.

There's a masonic lodge in my city that a friend became a part of a few years ago. When I started talking to him about it and asking questions he honestly had no clue what I was talking about. I've known the guy 20 years now, I can tell if he was lying. I showed him everything I had on it and he promptly left it. He had no idea the degree went as high as 33 and possibly higher and when he asked questions at the lodge people got annoyed and wouldn't answer. It's things like that that make us all wonder and if you can't understand that, then I honestly don't know what to say.

[edit on 28-7-2007 by nightmare_david]



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 08:11 AM
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nightmare_david

Your post exemplifies perfectly the level of ignorance that is out there about freemasonry, fueled by misinformation which you have quite obviously been exposed to.


Originally posted by nightmare_david
When you have a group that's been around years and years, has connections to many powerful, influential people in the world and a lot of "evil" has occured by people a part of this group, then people have a good reason to wonder what's going on behind your closed doors.

I don't see the relevance of the age of the organization, or the fact than some members have had influence in society, or indeed may have done wrong. You make it sound so terrible but in fact thre are many many more influential people who are not freemasons, and the vast majority of the membership have not committed any "evil" (whatever you mean by that vague term).


Then you have the people that have been in your group and got high enough to see the real intention of said group and got out of it. Then went on to try warning people. You can't ignore things like that.

What people are those? I know of a handful of people who have left for various reasons and have "gone public" on the reasons why. Some of these people have written books and others campaign against freemasonry on the web. I'd be surprised if you could name a dozen.


How secretive some of you are talking about it with your cryptic answers just makes others wonder even more.

What cryptic answers are you talking about? I've seen lots of extremely detailed answers give about the fraternity from freemasons on this site, as well as a lot of personal insight. Hardly secretive!


If it's nothing more than a simple group of close friends with no hidden agenda to rule the world or whatever, then what secrets are there to keep?

I think the discussion about masonic secrets has been done to death recently. Try an ATS search for lots of good information about this. However, the short answer is than the only Secrets in freemasonry are the modes of recognition. What secrets do you think freemasonry is keeping? And why?


It's a known fact that most of your members have no clue how high the degree of your society actually goes.

Its a known fact that there is a paranoia among some people about "high level masons" but no evidence have ever emerged to back up this allegation. In contrast, many freemasons on this site, myself included, have outlined in some detail why this paranoia is ill-founded. Do you have anything new to add to the discussion?


There's a masonic lodge in my city that a friend became a part of a few years ago. When I started talking to him about it and asking questions he honestly had no clue what I was talking about. I've known the guy 20 years now, I can tell if he was lying. I showed him everything I had on it and he promptly left it. He had no idea the degree went as high as 33 and possibly higher and when he asked questions at the lodge people got annoyed and wouldn't answer. It's things like that that make us all wonder and if you can't understand that, then I honestly don't know what to say.

The tragedy here is that your friend believed you and was misled into leaving freemasonry. I strongly suspect that you have yourself been duped into believing untruths about freemasonry from other ill-informed and malicious individuals. I'd be happy to discuss these with you, but please don't post huge tracts from Morals and Dogma on the site - it's all been done before.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by an3rkist


First of all, I was disturbed by the fact that this group refers to themselves as a "non-profit corporation", rather than a non-profit organization. It may be irrational, but the word "corporation" will never sit well with me.


"Corporation" refers to the fact that the Society is incorporated, i.e., under federal law it is a tax entity separate from its members.


I also was disheartened by the fact that they refer to themselves as a religion. I've always been under the impression that Freemasonry claims it is NOT a religion, and I have great respect for this claim.


BOTA does not claim to be a religion. It is, however, a "religious organization" inasmuch as the doctrines of the Kabalah and Hermeticism are "religious" or spiritual in nature. Anyone of any religion, or lack of one, may partake of the BOTA.



In addition to that, although I'm open to various mystical practices, Tarot is a practice that I'm extremely reluctant to consider valid. A deck of cards could only serve to provide information to me if the powers of the universe themselves were to shuffle the cards and pull each card out one by one. The fact that the individual does this suggests to me that Tarot is a practice based on the interpretation of chance. I don't deny that this could prove invaluable in some aspects, but basing any belief structure or even philosophy on Tarot is a major mistake in my opinion.


At this point, it is important to emphasize that Hermeticists and Qabalists, who created the Tarot, do not use the Tarot as a fortune telling game. The fortune telling games were invented by eastern European Gypsies, not Qabalists.

The Tarot is known to Hermeticists as "The Book of Thoth", and is the key to the Holy Doctrine. An in-depth analysis of this statement is off-topic here, but I will prepare a U2U for you in order to elaborate. I will, however, quote Brother Albert Pike, from page 777 of his book "Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry":

He who desires to attain to the understanding of the Grand Word and the possession of the Great Secret, ought carefully to read the Hermetic philosophers, and will undoubtedly attain initiation, as others have done; but he must take, for the key of their allegories, the single dogma of Hermes, contained in his table of Emerald, and follow, to class his acquisitions of knowledge and direct the operation, the order indicated in the Kabalistic alphabet of the Tarot.




Not that this is a warranted reason to shy away from BOTA, but the reference to "Holy of Holies", (which I have reason to assume is also used in Freemasonry), is a term which will never cease to remind me of Mormonism, a religion which I was raised in and will never have any respect for. I cannot blame BOTA for this, but it bothers me nonetheless.


Mormonism borrowed many terms from Freemasonry, including this one. In Hermetic Societies, it refers to the Inner Sanctum of the Temple of the Mysteries.


I also found it disheartening that one of the links on the website was "Pay membership dues". If the dues are for nothing but to pay for the facilities utilized by members, then why should the dues be paid to the owners of this website, rather than to the members' local facility?


The BOTA is different from Freemasonry in that it presents an actual curriculum similar to university courses. All matters of practical occultism are covered in the curriculum. Dues cover the costs of course materials (printings, mailings, etc.).

Local Bodies of BOTA are various Hermetic Study Groups. No dues are charged. Study Groups usually meet in Masonic Lodges, Universalist Unitarian Churches, or members' homes.




I was curious as to the meaning of "The Hermit" Tarot card, and was impressed by what it represents. It served to dampen some of the blows that the BOTA website had already dealt me. It's an extremely appropriate card to use as a metaphor for their stated reason for being.


Indeed it is.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 12:29 PM
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Three reasons to keep somthing secret:

1. To make something boring look more interesting (to hook attention)

2. To avoid attacks (you cannot attack something that is not known)

3. To protect knowledge (marketing tactic "we are the only ones offering this")

Theres not much more to say about this.



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 01:02 PM
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Originally posted by nightmare_david

There's a masonic lodge in my city that a friend became a part of a few years ago. When I started talking to him about it and asking questions he honestly had no clue what I was talking about. I've known the guy 20 years now, I can tell if he was lying. I showed him everything I had on it and he promptly left it. He had no idea the degree went as high as 33 and possibly higher and when he asked questions at the lodge people got annoyed and wouldn't answer. It's things like that that make us all wonder and if you can't understand that, then I honestly don't know what to say.


I find this little anecdote sort of hard to believe, and it demmonstrates the fallacy in your argument.

Your argument is that you, a non-Mason, showed him "something" about Masonry that, in his experience as a Mason, simply was not there. You have therefore proven yourself wrong. The fact that your information was incorrect seems never to have even dawned on you.

Secondly, the reason I find it hard it hard to believe is that Masonic Lodges only confer three degrees, not 5 and not 33. However, once one reaches the Third, he is immediately deluged with invitations to join the other Rites.

[edit on 28-7-2007 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by Cug
For what it's worth, I have seen many people who had the same doubts you seem to have about esoteric groups/beliefs/etc... and they seem to have found it works for them. Just keep asking questions and do some reading abut it. eventually you will find out if it's for you or not.


Well I'll never stop asking questions.
At the risk of over-using this quote, I love what Ms. Frizzle from one of my favorite shows, "The Magic Schoolbus" once said: "Keep asking questions, and you'll keep getting answers!"

[edit on 28/7/07 by an3rkist]



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
Three reasons to keep somthing secret:

1. To make something boring look more interesting (to hook attention)

2. To avoid attacks (you cannot attack something that is not known)

3. To protect knowledge (marketing tactic "we are the only ones offering this")

Theres not much more to say about this.


Not much more to say? Are you kidding?

A secret organisation that consists of people in high places is a huge problem.

1. Why would Freemasonry, something which is NOT boring, need to use secrecy as a recruiting tactic?

2. Why the need to avoid being attacked? Is it possible that the secrets would cause people within the public to become angry because of wrong-doing? Truth and goodness do NOT lurk in shadows. Come out, come out, wherever you are.

3. What "knowledge" needs to be protected, and how is that a marketting scheme?

Admit it. Secret societies are a breeding ground for evil and REAL conspiracies to take place. Listen to the JFK speech above (again?) if you need to understand.



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