Patriot Missile found in Florida Scrapyard

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Somewhere there's a DRMO guy seriously getting a foot up his arse.

They are probably too worried about the Tomcats to pay enough attention to everything else. I remember a farmer in Lake City Fl. who bought some surplus jet engine cannisters for watering his cattle, got them home and found some brand new F404 engines in them. He later sold them back to the Navy for a nide profit.

Originally posted by redsealEasily take down a few airliners??? A missile can destroy a single target, Its not like a pinball machine bouncing off and destroying everything it touches. And lets not forget...How would they launch it?

OK, forget airliners since we are talking about 200-300 casualties tops.
They found the missile, not the warhead. I am the first to admint that I am not a munitions expert and I seriously don't know about the actual devastation that such a warhead could invoke. I am more of a "sparklers are fun" kinda guy.

How about a cruise missile warhead detontated say...

Cruise ship. = Potential 3K-4K casualties

NFL football game = Potential 60K casualties

Shopping Mall Anytown USA = Potential 1K casualties.

This is serious stuff. Don't deflect the gravity of this thread with your partisan, protective Repbulican BS. They found a friggin' Cruise missle in a junkyard dude.

Minimum cost for a Cruise Missle from my prior thread = $1Million. Who throws those things away.....Homer Simpson when Marge declares a Clean Out The Garage Day?

When have we been attacked since 9/11?? not once, yet terrorist attacks are still rampant around the world. This is just more anti Bush rhetoric!

It is hard for even me to resist the temptation, so here goes.

To think that there hasn't been an attack since 9/11 because of ANYTHING Bush has done is preposterous. To think that somehow you are safer because "WE ARE FIGHTING THEM OVER THERE SO WE DON'T HAVE TO FIGHT THEM HERE" is even more preposterous since the head of DHS has a tingle in his tummy that we might be attacked this summer...here.
Further, there have been no devastating hurricanes, do you thank GWB for this too?

First, here is why "YOUR" government can't protect you. Can you say....Katrina? Did the government have a plan in place in it's aftermath after the BILLIONS we spent on DHS.

Do you realize that the first WTC bombing occured in 1993 and the 2nd in 2001? They waited 8 years for the 2nd attack. If I "cipher" that in the cement pond then the next "MIGHT" occur in 2009.

Do you think they even called themselves Al Quada before we GAVE them that name? Do some research dude, study the facts.

Why on 9/11 was not a single F-16 scrambled after we had prior knowledge for over an hour that multiple planes were being hi-jacked? Never before, and never since.

Why were wealthy Saudis ushered out or this country in the immediate days after 9/11 when no single American citizen was allowed to fly?

Oh and my kicker. The "War on Terror" = "The War on Drugs". Have we ever won that? Will we? Let me know when that one is OVER. I would rather smoke a doobie than drink a Bud.......won't happen.

Back at ya dude....I am....READY TO RUMBLE....

Toodles...kk

This should be researched a little more as I know that the Pat batteries for Desert Storm (1) were worked on in Central Florida at Martin Marietta. I had a relative who told me he knew that they were painting them before the invasion and told us to listen to the radio. Next couple of weeks or so and on the radio my father and I here that we are at war with Iraq.

Do we know if it was "painted" or was it a protoytpe that was sold for scrap. There is alot of military technology laying around but you have to maintain and keep it operational. The rocket in NJ to me is scarier then this since I know that there is a possibliity of how it got there. Just my 2 cents.

BTW, I live in St Pete across from Tampa nad have not heard anything..

Originally posted by Tom Bedlam
Somewhere there's a DRMO guy seriously getting a foot up his arse.

This sort of thing is supposed to be "decommissioned". But you can quite often buy bits and pieces of old weapon systems. Sometimes I think it's easier to just toss it in the dumpster than to go through all the paper work.

If you want, you should go to www.govliquidation.com, they handle all the DRMO sales now, I believe. Lots of it is boring but they have some interesting stuff if you know what it is.

There was a guy that found a Titan missile at a junkyard, it had been disassembled but he managed to put the thing back together. I think it was Ron Cole, IIRC. This was years ago.

Yes it is true, you can buy alot of stuff at DRMO, from ALICE packs to PRIC radios, but for "someone" to buy an entire shell of a ground to air.... GTAM is unheard of in my day. Yeah, you can buy a nosecone here or there, and maybe even a fuselage but it would take a HUGE efort to buy any part of the guidance systems of this said unit, and it would take an even greater effort to purchase de-comissioned pieces/parts for the Patriot. The Gimball systems alone would undoubtably be destroyed or rendered inoperable upon DRMO. This is a missile we are talking about here people.... and I am no rocket scientist. As to the Titan missile system, I've got a silo for one within a days hike, and I hate to burst your bubble but the Titan project for the most part was dissolved before it became active in the ICBM era of the 80's. This is a totally different day and age, and our technology has far surpassed the days of the Strategic Air Command's foothold. The Titan was a product of the past, late 60's early 70's if I may be correct, and the 80's brought about the SALT and START treaties with us and the USSR, to supposedly negate mutually assured destruction, The ATLAS missiles and many others were gone, and yep... read up, people have bought these silos and converted them into domociles. Gubment auctions, highest bidder.....

Now the Patriot missile system was touted exculsively during gulf war 1.0 as the newest and hottest "ish on the planet, how many of those took out SCUDS in the first war for oil? It was less than 20 years ago, even it's accuracy was under questioning. far from being totally decommisioned and available for sale to the public. In 1991, the titan could have been more than 20 years old, and thus sold for scrap to the general public, it wouldn't surprise me at all. But something of this magantude is unlikely, highly unlikely. Let's just hope it is for the best.

Originally posted by telemetry
...and I hate to burst your bubble but the Titan project for the most part was dissolved before it became active in the ICBM era of the 80's.

Not exactly sure how you're bursting my bubble here.

Cole put the thing together from pieces he got at auction. They came and got it back a few weeks later when he sent them some photos. I think the only thing he ended up short was the warhead. It was a big stink back then. He ended up enshrined in a couple of novels by Niven.

You can get a lot of interesting stuff if you luck up, especially if you don't mind filling out re-use forms. I've gotten several very nice pieces of test gear that way. Alas, no missiles.

edit: I'm not belittling your point - no, you shouldn't be able to get a big chunk of an operational weapon system. Though I probably will never know, it will be interesting to see how it got there.

[edit on 22-7-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

Every time I read this type of stories I laugh my hart out.

Because many years ago you use to walk into a surplus store and find all kind of collectible goodies from war.

I guess Bush scare is making many illegal collectors and not so illegal get rid of their littler mementos of wars. . .

Well I wasn't trying to imply the bursting of anyones protective bubble, it was more of a shake to see how many people would wake up from the slumber. Good point Tom, no harm, no foul.... carry on gents.

have we confirmed whether or not this thing had ordinance/explosive payload?
I'm staying tuned to this one.

T.

[edit on 22-7-2007 by telemetry]

Originally posted by kinda kurious
How about a cruise missile warhead detontated say...

Cruise ship. = Potential 3K-4K casualties

NFL football game = Potential 60K casualties

Shopping Mall Anytown USA = Potential 1K casualties.

This is serious stuff. Don't deflect the gravity of this thread with your partisan, protective Repbulican BS. They found a friggin' Cruise missle in a junkyard dude.

Minimum cost for a Cruise Missle from my prior thread = $1Million. Who throws those things away.....Homer Simpson when Marge declares a Clean Out The Garage Day?

not trying to be nit-picky here, but it wasnt a cruise missile, it was a patriot according to the OP.

not saying id wanna be in the vicinity of either of them when they went off, but keeping things in perspective is always helpful.

much better to find an old patriot in the trash than a cruise missile IMO

[edit on 22-7-2007 by Damocles]

Originally posted by redseal

Originally posted by VType
Very disturbing that something like the Patriot which could easily take down a few airliners could just go missing like that.

Easily take down a few airliners??? A missile can destroy a single target, Its not like a pinball machine bouncing off and destroying everything it touches. And lets not forget...How would they launch it?

Bush has taken a decent security system with minor flaws to a flawed system with minor successes.

WHAT??? Minor successes? When have we been attacked since 9/11?? not once, yet terrorist attacks are still rampant around the world.

This is just more anti Bush rhetoric!

Okay my bad it was a single missle not launcher with multi missles. Still hardly as minor as say some automatic weapons. I would think the guidence system in the Patriot would be worth quite a penny as well.
How ever you cut it a Pariot Missle has No buisiness leaving a secure base intact like that. No buisiness. And these "private contractor" types are popping up more and more as the culprits. I just dont like it.
And Okay leave Dub out of it and still the shift too Overseas controlled/owned US National Security just Reeks too me.
I expect more of these reports too come unfortunately.

I hate to quote the wiki on this, but it seems that the Patriot has indeed been retrofitted/ adapted to cruise missile status. Now it is no longer a SAM (surface to air missle)!!!

There have been many more upgrades to PAC-2 systems throughout the 1990s and into the 21st century, again mostly centering on software. However, the PAC-2 missiles have been modified significantly, into four separate variants known collectively as "GEM" or "guidance enhanced" missiles.
The chief upgrade to the original GEM missile was a new, much faster proximity fused warhead. Tests had indicated that the fuse on the original PAC-2 missiles were detonating their warheads too late when engaging ballistic missiles with an extremely steep ingress, and as such it was necessary to shorten this fuse delay. The GEM missile was also given a new "low noise" seeker head designed to reduce interference in front of the missiles radar seeker, and a higher performance seeker designed to better detect low radar cross section targets, such as stealth aircraft. The GEM was used extensively in Operation Iraqi Freedom, with a perfect success rate.
Just prior to OIF, it was decided to further upgrade the GEM and PAC-2 missiles. This upgrade program produced missiles known as the GEM/T and the GEM/C, the "T" designator referring to "TBM", and the "C" designator referring to cruise missiles. These missiles were both given a totally new nose section, which was designed specifically to be more effective against low altitude, low RCS targets like cruise missiles. Additionally, the GEM/T was given a new fuse which was further optimized against ballistic missiles. The GEM/C is the upgraded version of the GEM, and the GEM/T is the upgraded version of the PAC-2. The GEM+ entered service in 2002, and the Army is currently having all of its PAC-2 and GEM missiles upgraded to the GEM/C or GEM/T standard.

I dont think you would find THAT in a surplus store, this opens up a whole new can o worms! Doh!!! Considering that the Patriot was used extensively in OIF, and could still be classified as a highly secretive military weapon widely used on the frontlines, I doubt that some al qaueda terrorist found a dud in the sand and brought it back to the US. Maybe he was meaning to drop it off at Walt Disney World, but couldn't. Instead he took the wrong exit and decided to ditch the load at a scrapyard. Unless someone can provide the details of the classification of this missile, I say it reeks of a plant. Raise the terror threat to magenta and grab a beer... the fireworks are a comin'

while we are waiting to find out, i am sure there will be some backpeddling by the gov..here is an article that will make you think about where all those gas guzzlers are going This back in 2005. We here news once then nothing like the problem has been taken care of.


Alqaeda: :those SUVS is da Bomb

SyS

[edit on 23-7-2007 by Sys_Config]

About 4-6 years ago I had the chance to buy a Pharos III laser for $300, it was about 6 foot tall and about 14-16" in diameter. Yeah it was missing the master laser, but I can make one of those easy enough. You could do alot of damage with one of those, but a different type of damage compared to a missile. I was amazed to find it and the parts inside are worth ALOT even on their own. I do have photo proof.

I personally think this was a case of the media jumping on it because its war related and causes fear and even more questions with no REAL answers. Think about what the media would do if a few stores started selling dud hand gernades.

Originally posted by Damocles

Originally posted by kinda kurious
How about a cruise missile warhead detontated say...

Cruise ship. = Potential 3K-4K casualties

NFL football game = Potential 60K casualties

Shopping Mall Anytown USA = Potential 1K casualties.

Minimum cost for a Cruise Missle from my prior thread = $1Million. Who throws those things away.....Homer Simpson when Marge declares a Clean Out The Garage Day?

not trying to be nit-picky here, but it wasnt a cruise missile, it was a patriot according to the OP.

not saying id wanna be in the vicinity of either of them when they went off, but keeping things in perspective is always helpful.

much better to find an old patriot in the trash than a cruise missile IMO

You are correct Sir and I stand corrected. ( Although a prior post by Telemetry shows that some were upgraded to Cruise level.) At any rate, it is the warhead that concerns me the most.

But again, the minimum cost of a PATRIOT missile was $1 million dollars. Not the type of thing that would seem to just get tossed.

Does anyone have knowledge on what type of damage such a Patriot missile could cause?

Regards...kk

i think it is pure insanity that something like this is just laying around....i suppose it shouldn't though.....how many 'broken arrows' are out there.
i have heard different numbers but i have been under the impression for some time now that there are quite a few nukes out in the 'wild' that are basically lost...


still, a patriot missile in a bone yard...something is seriously wrong here

OK, just a little more info.....

The experts say the object was a surface-to-air missile, minus its warhead—so it’s harmless. They say it appeared to be a training model, and still had its rocket motor and guidance system.

Source:

www.tboblogs.com...

This article has some really great quotes and does clear up alot of facts.

Airman Lucas Mefford, a member of MacDill's ordnance team, said the missile still had its rocket motor and guidance system. He said it appears to have been a training model.

"It's pretty rare to find a Patriot," Mefford said. That's rare, as in never. MacDill officials say they can't ever recall another report of a Patriot turning up on private property.

The link below offers a much larger picture. It looks pretty beat up.
Source:

www.sptimes.com...

I suppose this story is over. Sorry if I wasted bandwidth. Regards...kk

[edit on 23-7-2007 by kinda kurious] fixed spacing, added 2nd report

[edit on 23-7-2007 by kinda kurious]

I love watching people take a simple event and blow it all out of proportion until it is the end of the world. The article said that the missile was HARMLESS. Yes the guidance system was intact and for that someone needs to lose their job. Military hardware is out there and isn't too hard to aquire. My American Legion Post has an M-60 tank sitting in front of it as a monument. We turned down an Apache helicopter because we supposedly didn't have enough room for it, but some say it was because they were afraid that I'd get it flying.

Even if this missile had a live engine, it is nothing more than a big bottle rocket. The systems that feed the missile it's targeting information and the radar necessary to guide it to it's target were not there. Someone might have been able to ignite the motor and that would be about it. There might have been some damage from where it hit, IF IT EVEN GOT OFF THE GROUND.

As far as cruise missiles are concerned there are hundreds if not thousands of them at small airports all over the country. Any aircraft that is equipped with a GPS auto-pilot can become a cruise missile with an accuracy compairable to first generation Tomahawks. Last time I checked it is easier to buy a plane than it is to buy a car. I can't remember the last time I had a ramp check and was asked for ID at a local airport.

By the way, about 3 months ago I was at an aircraft salvage yard, looking for some B-17 parts and I saw 8 sets of wings for Tomahawk missiles in the scrap heap.

Originally posted by telemetry
I hate to quote the wiki on this, but it seems that the Patriot has indeed been retrofitted/ adapted to cruise missile status. Now it is no longer a SAM (surface to air missle)!!!

... into four separate variants known collectively as "GEM" or "guidance enhanced" missiles.

The chief upgrade to the original GEM missile was a new, much faster proximity fused warhead.

The GEM missile was also given a new "low noise" seeker head designed to reduce interference in front of the missiles radar seeker, and a higher performance seeker designed to better detect low radar cross section targets, such as stealth aircraft.

... and the "C" designator referring to cruise missiles. These missiles were both given a totally new nose section, which was designed specifically to be more effective against low altitude, low RCS targets like cruise missiles.

Re-read it ... it wasn't turned INTO a cruise missile, it was redesigned with a better onboard radar to be effective AGAINST cruise missiles. It's hard to see a cruise missile in terrain hugging mode, especially if the cruise missile has been designed to have a low RCS.

edit: Hey, since you guys are on about cruise missiles, I'll start a thread on the subject. There are a couple of us that are dedicated 'practical jokers' and we tend to look for projects that will cause, let's say 'consternation' to be kind. The fun part is, we can come closer to pulling it off than most. That's generally where the other guys will rein us in. I got a wild hair to do this very thing in the thread I'm about to put up - I guess it's better we didn't.

[edit on 23-7-2007 by Tom Bedlam]

Ybor City is where everybody goes to party. It's a several mile long strip wth endless bars and clubs side-by-side. I live about 15 minutes away unless the lights hold me up.

I wonder how much they intended to sell that sucker for, or what they paid for it?! Or how did the owner not realize it was there anyways? Then how many of these things get bought by Charlie?

AS far back as 1999 the GAO warned the defense dept that the surplus was not being controlled .



GAO warns Defense Dept


Today monday I heard on the radio that procedures were being reviewed for changes..nothing about the patriot. This is what i call damage control

[edit on 23-7-2007 by Sys_Config]