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There were other Holocausts?

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posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 06:56 AM
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johnmike,

Just to add to the American Indians demise. As a Cherokee let me add that as you say settlers did not treat the Indians very well what with making tobacco pouches from their women’s breasts and starting the tradition of scalping. But what has always rubbed the Cherokee raw was the belief that American Indian blood could not mix with the bloodlines of “Civilized” people. Remember it was Andrew Jackson, the president that destroyed the US economy in his day, that sent blankets to the Cherokee tribe. Knowing full well that they were infected with smallpox! The estimated death toll – 3 million!

Before we get too carried away bashing the Jews let’s take a peek at US history again. That little figure by the name of George Washington who fought under a battle flag of blue with white six pointed stars. He insisted our currency would have a symbol placed on the most common denominator “Lest we forget who made this nation possible”. Now class turn your one dollar bill over to the “back” and look above the eagle’s head.
Why shouldn’t the Jews be found of US money? God knows the Chinese are.




posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 07:22 AM
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Its obvious that the OP has a bias against Jews, just read his first paragraph. That aside he has done a good job of bringing to light some facts and horrible instances that many of us either forgot or didnt know about.

Many of the contributors have done the same. I know I learned some things.

There also is some confusion regarding the Jewish people as well which has also been addressed so hopefully some folks have learned some things about that.

But to get back on track with the OP....I want to echo some of the statements here that while the Jewish Holocaust is known as "the biggest and the baddest" it doesnt take away from all the other atrocities listed in these posts.

Its also pretty fresh in people memories since there are surviors and eyewitnesses who are still alive today to recount the stories about it.

Also take into consideration that there are more movies about World War II than any other war....by a long shot. So we see and hear about it much more often and not because the Jews are seeking our sympathy but because it was part of a MAJOR American war and it plays out in movies everyday on HBO, AMC, History Channel, and TCM.

I guess what I am getting at here is that while it is by far the most known and recognized holocaust it still doesnt make the others less hoffific or less signifigant. ALL of them, right up to Darfur today, are senseless, brutal crimes that should unite this globe to put an end to them.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by theindependentjournal
JEW HATING INBRED LOWLIFES SPEWING THEIR JEW HATING INBRED CRAP. I HAVE FORWARDED THIS THREAD TO THE ADL FOR THIER ATTORNEYS TO PROSECUTE ATS AND THE POSTER.

I have had more than enough of this crap being allowed n this site, I am positive if this was said about blacks or any other race of people it would be pulled, PULL THIS THREAD FOR RACISM NOW...


First of all I cannot believe you have not been warned for namecalling. I'll just go ahead a report you for that. Second of all if you have had enough with this site then please leave and don't ever come back.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 08:17 AM
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Originally posted by Hellmutt
There are three different words, and this is how I understand them.


1. Holocaust

The mass killing of jews by the nazis during wwii. The number of victims are desputed. 6 million vs. less (if some claims none, I'll find it ridiculous). I believe the 6 million number is inflated, but this is not so important for me (I have other interests). So please don't put too much into this "detail".



2. Genocide

Mass killing of a people, a race, a nation, a culture, etc. I guess there are better ways of explaining this word, but you get the idea. Rwanda is an example of a genocide. There have been many genocides in history.


So the only difference between the two is that for some reason or another
out of the Genocide that the Nazi's invoked on over 11 million people, the 3-6 million Jews from that number were put into a different catagory that was called "The holocaust".

Why not call it what it is, Genocide?

Is it because the Jews are really special as their religion claims?

Is it because they are masters of drumming up sympathy as so cleary presented?

I think to say that all would be a horrible sterotype, but I think to label the Powers that be over there as such would be spot on.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 08:37 AM
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Newfoundland's Beothuck indians. They were killed by vikings, whites and everyone else here. now there's one taking place in Darfur, although that's more genocide than holocaust. Then there were the black slaves in the U.S. beaten, whipped and tortured, these people were abused horribly. Finally, the Rawandan genocide. horrible.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 08:55 AM
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yes several hundred millions of political killings by the leaders of USSR and several other communist and left winged groups through there rulings.
germany had people killing people mainly the totenkopf-SS. And the communist had people like Che the terrorist who worked with cuba's leader in over throwing cuba's former leaders. he was responisble for mass killings. And currently we see kids and other people were flags and cloting with his image on it, with out knowing he was for more worse then Heinrich Himmler.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 09:51 AM
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A couple of points I'd like to make,
1) The UK invented concentration camps, during the boer war, and were responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of women and children
www.boer.co.za...

The fact that they were killed by neglect rather than malice does not excuse this horrific war crime.

The UK were to use this practice again, under the guise of internment in the fight against terrorism in the occupied north of ireland

2) The Potato Famine


The Irish Potato Famine

During the summer of 1845, a "blight of unusual character" devastated Ireland's potato crop, the basic staple in the Irish diet. A few days after potatoes were dug from the ground, they began to turn into a slimy, decaying, blackish "mass of rottenness." Expert panels convened to investigate the blight's cause suggested that it was the result of "static electricity" or the smoke that billowed from railroad locomotives or the "mortiferous vapours" rising from underground volcanoes. In fact, the cause was a fungus that had traveled from Mexico to Ireland.

"Famine fever"--cholera, dysentery, scurvy, typhus, and infestations of lice--soon spread through the Irish countryside. Observers reported seeing children crying with pain and looking "like skeletons, their features sharpened with hunger and their limbs wasted, so that there was little left but bones." Masses of bodies were buried without coffins, a few inches below the soil.

Over the next ten years, more than 750,000 Irish died and another 2 million left their homeland for Great Britain, Canada, and the United States. Within five years, the Irish population was reduced by a quarter.

The Irish potato famine was not simply a natural disaster. It was a product of social causes. Under British rule, Irish Catholics were prohibited from entering the professions or even purchasing land. Instead, many rented small plots of land from absentee British Protestant landlords. Half of all landholdings were less than 5 acres in 1845.

Irish peasants subsisted on a diet consisting largely of potatoes, since a farmer could grow triple the amount of potatoes as grain on the same plot of land. A single acre of potatoes could support a family for a year. About half of Ireland's population depended on potatoes for subsistence.
www.digitalhistory.uh.edu...


This is probably the best known of the atrocities perpetrated by the UK in Ireland, but there are many accounts of massacres during the British occupation of Ireland.

How often do you hear about these?
Rarely, due to the UK government wishing to cover up these horrible episodes from it's past.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 10:16 AM
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I'm still trying to see what the difference is between Genocide and Holocaust


Except for the fact that the Holocaust was Jews? Why give it a different name?



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 10:47 AM
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Russians, Polish and Serbs were the greatest victims of WWII. No other nation comes close. Of these, Russians suffered the biggest genocide in the history of Earth.

Of course, Russians are always the "enemy", so you will never hear the truth.

Stalin has changed his views a few years before his death, started cleaning up his system and he was poisoned because of that.

I can only say that the October revolution was anything but Russian - the ideology and the actors were imported, including Lenin. Therefore the brutality never seen in the history of Earth.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by kleverone
I'm still trying to see what the difference is between Genocide and Holocaust


Except for the fact that the Holocaust was Jews? Why give it a different name?

The holocaust wasn't just Jews but that is what everyone is taught that happened.

I believe only 40% were Jews and its a shame the other 60% get ignored in the history books.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 11:16 AM
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Can anyone refute my claims?

Referring to other peoples as being 'holocaust' survivors is not anti-Jew sentiment.

Saying they are not the only people to have gone through such horrors, is not, once again, anti-Jew sentiment.

If their claims had any basis in fact the Jewish people should act as if they are in mourning. Well, it seems the supposed 'Jewish' state of Israel has better things on its mind. Instead, it would rather invade Arab countries and bomb innocent civilians. Great figure of morality if you ask me
.

Am I a holocaust denier? No. I definitely am not. No one deserves to be systematically eliminated. Do I doubt some of the facts? Certainly. And I think we all must if we ever wish to find out the real truth.

What we are told about a lot of things happen to be lies. Why is it so wrong to question the holocaust? Is there some dark and nefarious motive behind the holocaust that will shed some light on the matter? Did the 'Zionists' sell out the rest of the Jews so they could receive a 'homeland' in the Middle East?

I think the real people who should be held accountable are the manipulators behind the scenes. And falsifiers of history. Facts are behind pushed under the rug right before our eyes and we complacently think its for our own good!


True premise produces true conclusions

Zionism

Did Zionism cause the holocaust?

Holocaust Remembrance and Jewish Supremism

Meaning of Genocide

Muslim persepective

Nazi-Zionist collaboration

Google

[edit on 22-7-2007 by biggie smalls]



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 11:31 AM
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Originally posted by SwatMedic
I want to echo some of the statements here that while the Jewish Holocaust is known as "the biggest and the baddest" it doesnt take away from all the other atrocities listed in these posts.


My whole point was, that the 'holocaust' is nothing compared to that committed against the Slavic peoples in Russia.

Again, if you want to speak about casualties, the 'holocaust' doesn't even come close.

The thing is, it does take away from other genocides. Jewish people think they have a monopoly on tragedy. My people have gone through their fair share of atrocities as well and I feel historical facts are downplayed when only the 'holocaust' gets media attention.

It is absurd to think they are the only victims of genocide. I'm sorry, but that is not the case.

That is one of my points. They aren't alone in suffering and shouldn't feel so damn special because of their past. There shouldn't be so much hatred and anger associated either when people try to question the events. I see no problem questioning any other 'genocide' or 'holocaust,' but the second anyone questions this particular genocide you're immediately anti-Semitic.

If I was anti-Semitic that would mean I hated Arabs and Jews alike. They are all the same people, as much as the Israeli government would not like you to believe that. The Arabs have been living there for much longer than most Jews. Face it, its a fact of life. They have been living on that piece of land for a few thousand years. And where have the 'Jewish' people been? Europe, Africa, Asia, and the Americas. Not many stayed behind. Granted, there have always been a remnant population but nothing substantial to speak of.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Kr0n0s
Are they responsible directly or indirectly for at least one? Yes, i think they are.
If you re-read my original post you will notice that my initial point was how the Bolshevik Holocaust is buried and I found it to be more than just a coincidence that just a few years after the Jewish Bolsheviks Slaughtered around 20 million people, the Jews themselves face a Holocaust which they will not allow to be forgotten.


Uh most of the Bolsheviks were not Jewish they were Atheist. Its just that they saw a much greater priority in thinning out the Christians as they held power originally, and were influencing the Russian government, and the Jews have in the European past always been minorities and never held power really.

Basically similar to how the Romans killed Christians/Jesus but allowed the Jews to live.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 01:30 PM
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Everyone who has suffered a tradegy deserve's to have the option of getting there respective stories out

what has me INFURIATED about the HOLOCAUST is that the very people that suffered are still at risk in someway

let's start with the term zionist. there are the good zionists (good of heart and intention) the bad and the ugly

Lets think zionism (PRE holocaust) this is a different group of zionists this was the poweful british mason zionists who had a plan and they tried to get jews first. to associate strongly with there "jewishness" and then they tried to get people to move

now some of these pre holocaust ( british mason zionists) were jewish , some alot were not. What happened after this group alligned with groups like the stern gang and hilter and carried out the sick, dispicable holocaust against tons of jews as well as others.

Well post holocaust. There was a new group of zionists (good hearted and intention) but scared to death from the trauma's inflicted on there friends and relatives) so zionism became much more popular among torah followers after the holocaust.

Anyone get it yet.

those same PRE holocaust british masonic zionists (some jewish) many not orchestrated the hococaust to make ZIONISM more popular (which it did) by getting the other "good group of zionists" (post holocaust) to embace isreal as a jewish state as a result of all the trauma

NOW these sick british masonic elite zionists could HIDE BEHIND THE VERY PEOPLE they SACRIFICED and because of semantics of Zionism and Jewishness and other things the whole issue gets complex, is a delticate topic, and thos sick bastards hiding among the good hearted zionists will be willing to do it again.

that same OLD group and there puppets (neo cons?) may have orchestrated the atrocities on 9/11.

same old group trying to get the west to hate the arabs and make some money

fool me once shame on you, fool me twice....shame on me

remember the good zionists (mostly post- holocaust and jewish support the state) for safety and because it was engrained in them since they were young due to be shown all the trauma from the holocaust. this is primarily a good group, who may have a bit of a mental block in wanting to believe the sick bastards who caused the holocaust are hiding amongst themselves. too scary to want to imagine.

what will they do next

[edit on 22-7-2007 by cpdaman]



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 02:10 PM
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First of all, let me settle something right now. I do not hate jews, hell I live in South Tx I dont even know any jews.
I do have issues with Israel though, problems with ISRAEL not ISRAELI's,
except maybe for the Israelis that are in charge, especially Mossad.
I am convinced that Israel cares nothing for its allies, even their biggest ally the US. During the last major offensive by the IDF, they used cluster bombs in a way that violated the agreements between the US and Israel for their use as well as violating international law.
When the US spoke up about this, Israel pretty much said "mind your own business" and that was the end of that.
When the US refused to enter into their war (the name of the war escapes me) 6 day war maybe? Israel sent jets to bomb. firebomb and strafe the USS Liberty in the hopes of sinking her and blaming it on Egypt.
When the Liberty failed to sink, they made up the excuse that they thought it was an Egyptian vessel, despite the fact that it was flying the US flag..
Thats a topic for another thread though and i am out of time for now..



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Lexion
Geez...
American Indians ? Name a tribe, any tribe.

Just because Hitler gets the credit, doesn't
mean he was original.

Regards,
Lex


Thanks for pointing that out Lex

Any of those tribe where the victums of a holocausts!
Any chance theres one going on right now in the middle east?
American boys and girls breaking down the doors to "terrorist" houses,
taking them somewhere? Hmmm sound familar? Or am I totally wrong about that?



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by Comforter
Just to add to the American Indians demise. As a Cherokee let me add that as you say settlers did not treat the Indians very well what with making tobacco pouches from their women’s breasts and starting the tradition of scalping.

Scalping is completely related to any "making tobacco pouches". I've never heard of that specific accusation, so it'd be nice of you to state where that came from. But in any case, the practice of scalping was far more widespread than anything that could have been caused by that. Scalping was encouraged by warring European nation who were "allies" with them during wartime, but they learned it on their own (before European influence, I believe).


Originally posted by Comforter
But what has always rubbed the Cherokee raw was the belief that American Indian blood could not mix with the bloodlines of “Civilized” people. Remember it was Andrew Jackson, the president that destroyed the US economy in his day, that sent blankets to the Cherokee tribe. Knowing full well that they were infected with smallpox! The estimated death toll – 3 million!


First of all, I think you mean the Mandan, not the Cherokee. What you're describing (although you're completely incorrect in any case by saying Cherokee) is a rumor propagated by Ward Churchill, whose works were found to include fraud, falsification, fabrication, and plagiarism. Last I heard they were considering unpaid suspension of up to five years at the University of Colorado at Boulder.

What really happened was that the Mandan natives traded, or otherwise interacted with, with the American Fur Company. There are stories of exposure from infected people on an American Fur Company steam boat, and stories of exposure through contact with people or materials at trading posts.

How many Mandan were there at the time? 1,600. There were approximately 125 survivors. Nowhere close to your fictitious "three million" joke. Horrible, yes. Genocide, no.


Originally posted by Comforter
Before we get too carried away bashing the Jews let’s take a peek at US history again. That little figure by the name of George Washington who fought under a battle flag of blue with white six pointed stars. He insisted our currency would have a symbol placed on the most common denominator “Lest we forget who made this nation possible”. Now class turn your one dollar bill over to the “back” and look above the eagle’s head.
Why shouldn’t the Jews be found of US money? God knows the Chinese are.

I have no idea what the point is, but, alright.

You're talking about this, I think. It's not a Star of David if that's what you're thinking.

[edit on 22-7-2007 by Johnmike]



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 05:42 PM
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No one ever denied other genocides ever took place.

Many are mentioned on this thread. Others are less known. The Spanish Inquisition is well known, but lesser known is the followers of Martin Luther killed, imprisoned, tortured, or seized property of Catholics who did not convert to Lutheranism fast enough. Or the early Mormon settlers to Utah who killed or ran off any non-Mormon settlers who tried to follow.

One of the largest genocides in history is still going on. Radical mohammedans openly state their goal is the global dominance of islam and the elimination of all other religions by force and mass executions if necessary.

And if we unilaterally withdraw from Iraq a genocide will occur there.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 06:11 PM
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I dont know where the misconception came from that "holocaust" is a word that is specifically reserved for explanation of what happened to the jews in WW2 because that is not the case.

from Websters Dictionary-

Main Entry: ho·lo·caust
Pronunciation: 'hO-l&-"kost, 'hä- also -"käst or 'ho-l&-kost
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Late Latin holocaustum, from Greek holokauston, from neuter of holokaustos burnt whole, from hol- + kaustos burnt, from kaiein to burn -- more at CAUSTIC
1 : a sacrifice consumed by fire
2 : a thorough destruction involving extensive loss of life especially through fire
3 a often capitalized : the mass slaughter of European civilians and especially Jews by the Nazis during World War II -- usually used with the b : a mass slaughter of people; especially : GENOCIDE


Is it used to describe the mass killing of jews by hitler? Yes.
Is that the only use for it? No. Is anyone familiar with the words, "Nuclear Holocaust?"
It is used to describe a mass slaughter of people, any people. So yes, what happened to the Indians by the US could be considered a holocaust but there is a difference because it was not US policy to exterminate any and everyone of Indian Heritage. Even though it wasnt stated as policy, what was done to them was still, in my opinion, more or less a type of holocaust or genocide.
A very big point that I've been trying to make in my posts is this.
Most of the world is afraid to say anything negative to Israel about anything, their policies, their motives and especially their political and national agendas.
Israel has no problems with throwing guilt trips on anyone that challenges them. The US Congress, Members of Parliament and even the worlds leaders. The will do this using the Media (which they control a large portion of) which is the fastest and best way to start rumors or they will do it by more direct methods using political channels.
It is just like here in the US where it is a HUGE taboo for anyone to say anything about blacks, even in a constructive way. The only people that are safe to do so are other blacks and even then they will be an outcast in the black community, calling them Uncle Toms or whatever.
Its the same with Israel , only other jews can say anything to another jew and in some cases, only another Israeli citizen can say anything negative about Israel or Israel policies.
Nobody elses opinion matters. Does that make them a respected country? no, that isnt respect that they get, it is fear.
Call me what you want, i really dont care. It is easier to just blast someone and call them anti-semitic or a jew hater, than it is to face the truth. Israel knows this and they take FULL advantage of this.
And it is working, people already think that a holocaust can only happen to a jew, if you arent jewish then it is called something else.. LMAO whatever



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 09:52 PM
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Yeah the holocaust is very well inflated just like how we got land from the native americans was deflated haha.... In middle school we broke bread with the natives and it was a merry good time and we shared the land but left out the slaughtering part haha.....It all comes down to how these messages are being spread that makes them important....As a lot of you pointed out jews control the media? well that would make sense why it'd seem like it was the most historic, and not only that they had to make it a point to capitalize off of a tragedy...So ask yourselves if african americans, gypies, homosexuals, and handicapped were also part of the genocide why aren't they collecting reparations themselves...I dunno maybe those other minorities just don't matter to our country hahaa.....It just makes me sick knowing 500 years from now if the world is still around Israel will still be collecting off this event unless something else is conjured up...shame Israel has the United States nuts in a vice...



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