iPhone a Trojan Horse For Government Surveillance?

Originally posted by Cug

Originally posted by brill
I'm having difficulty tracking down the white-paper but the understanding is that the iPhone will send collected personal data back to a private server/service.

Why do you think it's hard to find the whitepaper?

::cough::HOAX::cough::

Because the group responsible is underground or so they claim. At some point it will surface.

brill

Originally posted by CaptainJailew
The average citizen doesn't even know what's going on, much less suffers as a result of it. Why should we be afraid of publicizing our call log, does the government really care if you're two-timing your girlfriend when someone else is about to rob a bank or go to a massive drug deal. In an optimally functioning society, wouldn't the law-abiding citizens want enforcement and surveillance of the laws to not only be efficient, but also to be out-of-sight?

Assuming a move towards a more open, communitarian society is inevitable, and less value is placed on "personal information": Would you rather the cops stop everyone on the street and ask them to see their call-log, or just download it secretly and without bother?

But that's the whole point making people aware of what is going on. They suffer they just don't get it and thats really unfortunate. I think people have rights and they shouldn't be trampled because its convenient for law enforcement. I certainly don't agree with doing it behind peoples backs either. What's to prevent information fro going to the wrong people or cause (corporate espionage for example). Why not just invoke a complete police state and do away with rights if they can't be honored?

brill

Originally posted by CaptainJailew
This can happen on land lines as well, communication has never been secure, and wire-tapping very rarely requires "user consent." I don't see why this is unique to the iphone.

Yes I'm aware of this however this article is specifically about the iPhone and its obvious media hype. I'm not trying to generalize all forms of digital communication as there are well known and documented inconsistencies. My point was more that data is intercepted, voice was more of an after thought but your quite right that it doesn't require user consent. To me its profiling which can then be used for other purposes. How do we really know who is being watched and for what reasons. Do you really trust the government with all your details regardless of how trivial they may appear to you.

brill

I heard a radio program tonight that claimed the i-phone was hackable when it was on wi-fi mode. The commentator on the show said that this weakness of the i-phone could be overcome if you put wi-fi on manual mode, so it wouldn't log onto available wireless networks without command from the user.

I have to say, it sounds a lot like a feature that US Cellular is advertizing right now. They're advertizing that they're service comes with a back up service for your information from your phone. The big selling point being that if you loose your phone you don't loose your information. So it wouldn't surprise me if the iPhone, which is the newest coolest phone on the market now, would have a feature just like that. I would say the real question is if this is simply a great feature incase you loose your phone or if there's more to it than advertized. Personally, I think that's a great feature, but would rather see it as a feature that you could choose from different companies where you could sign up for they're service, rather than the choice already being made for you by it being built into the phone when you get it.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
I heard a radio program tonight that claimed the i-phone was hackable when it was on wi-fi mode. The commentator on the show said that this weakness of the i-phone could be overcome if you put wi-fi on manual mode, so it wouldn't log onto available wireless networks without command from the user.

Yes I heard something similar, in fact there was a major US university campus that had problems with an Iphone rollout in relation to localized equipment from another vendor. I think the hack you & I have heard about is different than the original issue.

brill

I have an iPhone. I actually waited in line for a couple of hours with some friends to get one. Do I believe that it is involved in a mass conspiracy to get my girlfriend's number? No, not really. Where do you guys find these websites?

Originally posted by sodapop04
I have an iPhone. I actually waited in line for a couple of hours with some friends to get one. Do I believe that it is involved in a mass conspiracy to get my girlfriend's number? No, not really. Where do you guys find these websites?

The same way you found this one Your entitled to your opinion and I'm glad that you enjoy your new toy but to trivialize the idea behind what might be happening here is your loss. Your right nobody other than you gives a damn who you call but I for one don't want my conversations, no matter what the content is, to be monitored surreptitiously by our untrustworthy government.

brill

For Captain Jailew,
wow, first, it is a violation of every american citizen's rights. you think its ok because you dont see any harm in it. ok, well lets say everyone takes your standpoint, what next? my right to free speech? my right to the persuit of happinesse in however i deem fit so long as no one else suffers? you think allowing transgressions by an already overly manipulative goverment is ok? this isnt a debate about whether it has massive implications in the here and now, this is a debate about how much we will allow them to take from us as citizens. how much we will let them steal from our rights. they're our rights man, it doesnt matter if they have a reason to spy on joe but not jane, you shouldnt be spying period. if theres one thing i think our people need to realize its that if you give our administration and inch, they will take miles. just think about that.

Originally posted by sodapop04
I have an iPhone. I actually waited in line for a couple of hours with some friends to get one. Do I believe that it is involved in a mass conspiracy to get my girlfriend's number? No, not really. Where do you guys find these websites?

i think your trying to dumb down the validity of the issue. its not about your girls number man, its about allowing them to over step their boundaries. its about keeping them constantly aware that this type of nonsense where they get the secret right to spy on anyone whether it be you or me or Raj Amad (ficticious name,:roll will not go unchecked. im telling you peeps, they depend on your type of argument to make these kind of things happen.

you might not care cuz it doesnt restrain you, but you should care because they are disrespecting you as a citizen. if you dont care then nothing im going to say will change your mind but consider that you and me and everyone else here have rights that in many other places are nothing but a dream. im sure our government would love to repress us like in other places but they cant do it overtly like they would elsewhere. this is where we say no way, backoff.

this whole subject is really significant to me on a couple levels. now, i'm not elderly or nothing, but i remember a time not too long ago (call it 10-12 years) when people worried about their 1)rent 2)car note. suddenly, people are all talking about paying their 1) rent 2)car note and 3)cell phone bill.
since when did talking to eachother become such a priority?
i stopped carrying one when doing contract work with a dude that tried to micromanage. in order to maintain a healthy business relationship, i knew i needed spafce. I'm available when i'm available. Socially: it's a leash. how many fights has this caused between boyfriend and girlfriend concerning "why didn't you answer your cell?" Simply because my time is my time and you have no right over it.

But then there's the more sinister. GPS. LOL. They don't even need to chip you because they've got you tracked thru your phone. The whole concept stinks of Big Brother, paying for a service to tell YOU where YOU are! You now PAY every month for the very technology that tracks you.

Oh, and did i forget to say that your phone can easily be switched into a transmitting device without your knowledge... broadcasting your audio to whomever is at the controls of the service provider...

so, between your phone, the matrix of cameras with face identification, license plate tracking from software on the highways and such, FCC frequency closed circuit private security cams, AND YOUR CELL PHONE: they can watch the soap opera that is your life pretty much minute by minute.

so you say you wanted an iphone?

you make important points but how are you going to get a tow truck to your car on the side of the frwy without a trip to the nearest call box without your celly? if your running late to work and you need to let them know? if youve been in an accident and need to call the paramedics? there are alot of reasons for and against cellys. who knows we might all have horrible cancer in 20 or 30 years from them. but we have accepted them into our culture. in fact i would be willing to bet the average american carries one and thinks nothing of it.
so since they already have a leash on us, lets try not to let them get a muzzle on too.

its quite simple thinking

for me, its about the potential of invading your privacy to black mail you. say you are a regular guy who watches porn, likes to listen to the music you like to listen to, and occasionally likes to check out "politically incorrect" websites but one day you decide to put that aside and run for a political position, or maybe you focus more on your career in an intent to become a higher up at a well know bank, or other large business, etc..... the list goes on. lets break it down for one who's imagination is on the level of that of a roach

say you were the regular guy who looked at kinky porn, or watched fetish videos, and did all your other PERSONAL internet browsing, that you would prefer to keep to yourself, but then time goes on and you put most of that younger day stuff aside, and you get married, have a kid, get a nice house, and is now some big head at the board of education. but you still have a few unsavory friends from back in the day who you honestly only see maybe once in a blue moon, but they got into some heavy shyt recently. so now the "man" wants answers, and they dont want to play nice. so what pops up on your desk in a nice fedex package, a nice folder filled with dirty websites you have visited, saucy things you have said on the internet forums, maybe even pictures or a list of videos you had downloaded in the past, a call log to that porn number you called on an occasion when you were feeling kinky, etc.... all stuff that you might not stand for now, but stuff you did back in the day, that if brought to the front, will have people second guessing who is the man sitting here before us claiming to be this and that, but used to log onto sexy-butts.com, and used to post racially charged jokes on internet forums. and since human beings are not so forgiving, your life would be ruined if such information just happened to somehow get out.
so now what do you do. you end up spilling the beans. even if there arent any beans to spill on your friends activities, you have already been put in a position where you dont have an option. dont say anything and ruin your career and relationship, or say what you can because obviously the first option isnt exactly entertaining. and then the cycle continues, but ill stop the hypotheticals at that.
now im sure your friend would have to be in deep shyt to make someone wanna go that far to get info from you, but if its on the net, then its accessible. now im sure not any average joe schmo can just hypothetically hack into the server that is supposedly holding all the information from i-phone users, but its a possibility, and since it is, then there are more people then the government that you want to be concerned with getting the info they need to black mail you, or even worse, steal your identity and do other things. im sure there are people right now texting someone their social security number for a vacation or whatever.
maybe im crazy, but although you might not want to consider the fact that one day all that shyt you type on the net might come back and haunt you, or all that crazy stuff you say on the phone to friends, even if your just jokin, doesnt negate the fact that it can. and if it does, im sure your not prepared to handle it.
but who cares, people are stupid sheep anyways, and we all deserve what we get, because there is always something we could have done to prevent it. its like the people who call up their isp, and say that they are sending them viruses, and porn pictures, because they're to stupid to realize that they themselves, or someone in the house is the cause of that. its just a small example of the stupidity level in the general population and the conscious decision to be ignorant, that people love to accept.
yes people, it is 2007, the info sent and received through your iphone can be stored and accessed later without you knowing it, and it can be used against you.
but the point still stands. if you dont do these things, then how do you properly protect the sheep. its like you just gotta take the good with the potential bad, as in all cases. yes this can be very bad, but yes, it can be something that helps save millions of lives. at the end of the day, i just want to at least know what i can do to protect my privacy. if everyone else doesnt care, then so be it, let there info float through cyber space with a big ol, "HEY COME STEAL ME AND LOOK AT ME", sign.
given the world that we live in, this stuff wasnt always, but now has become more and more, a necessary evil. but then again, does the government and law enforcement at least TRY to do their job to the best of their extent, without having to rely on snoop tactics like the possible one mentioned in this article.
just tell me how to work around it, or protect my privacy the best that i can, so its at least not easy to get the scoop on me. i aint doin nothing bad, but i cant stand possibly having something get dangled over my head in the future. there is nothing entertaining about black mail, or having your info used against you in general, no matter who is doing it.
but its the day and age you live in. it will not go away, and will not stop. so your best bet is to educate yourself on all that you can, and that is the best way to protect your privacy, and well being. dont wait for the government, or big business to protect you, because you feel to inferior or stupid to try to protect yourself. dont want your credit card stolen, or viruses and spyware raiding your computer, then you need to educate yourself on how to browse and do transactions safely, and how to keep your computer safe from malware. and by keeping it safe, i dont mean downloading a program to your computer, and assume its active and thinking oh thats it, im protected. find out what spyware is? what it does? how your program protects you? what does it protect you from? etc......
people are idiots. im no genius, but still.

dont blame cell phones. blame human nature.
a cell phone has nothing to do with the fact that now your wife flips out whenever you dont answer her calls to your cell, because she has become impatient since information has become so readily available over the past decade. people are to dependent anyways, they need to work on getting their survival skills, and many on their social skills.
id like to thought a friend curses me out because she tried to call me to go out, but didnt want to go out by herself, but since i didnt answer, she felt she had to sit in the house all by herself. what!? go out by yourself and meet some people, dont be dependent on me to be your savior and friend whenever you call me. thats weak
dont be offended by technology. be offended by some of the stupid and unethical people who use it.

Originally posted by Averysmallfoxx
you might not care cuz it doesnt restrain you, but you should care because they are disrespecting you as a citizen...

I understand many of the posts here. It is disrespectful in many ways to monitor a person, checking where and whom they call. However, I just think it is absurd to place blame on a simple phone. The phone barely does what it was meant to do. If the government or "the powers that be" wanted to check up on people, they would attack through, in my opinion, a PC. Since almost every household owns one or more.

good points both of you (see above) but heres where i take a small differing stance

it is the powers that be, and it is not the technology that we choose to invest in that leads us there. its the idea that our people as a whole have a lax attitude torwards unsanctioned snooping. we dont care right now as much as some do cuz we havent seen the implications of their snooping affect us on a personal level. its kinda like, well, you and your girl split up, which sux but whatever,then you and her start hanging out, and you guys start getting touchy feely, but then she points out that if you dont feel its in your emotions best interests to fool around knowing its only sex and nothing more she will understand.if you like this idea you wont make any fuss over it and youll just secure your friends with benefits status, if you did make a fuss over it no matter what you tell her later, she wont put out like that anymore because it became to awkward.

the government is dipping, if they make an issue out of it that affects the individual, nation wide these behaviors would find opposition and hence the house would HAVE to act and they know it.

they wont act openly even if its in the efforts to persecute citizens personally because applying this stolen information they take would incite people to ask where they got it from and obviously if they just say,"we stole it from your pda" or from you celly there would be multitudes of LIVID citizens and thats the sort of thing they want nothing to do with.

the point is, its a thing we have slowly been allowing to occur by not having a tight, firm, and responsive reaction to past occurances where we KNEW they were dipping. its up to you individually to make your own conclusions but people like cheney and bush and their crowd think the average american doesnt have a care or desire to protect their more indirectly important rights and by just letting this all perpetuate, we are giving them valid reason to come to that conclusion.

The purpose is to collect as much information about you as possible and then used against you. What sort of restrictions could the government place on you if they knew everything about you?

People who take antidepressant medications could be restricted from buying a gun, or getting a job. People who drive over the speed limit could be charged higher insurance rates (even if they haven't been ticketed).

There is so much information that can be obtained and used against you (regardless of the technology being used). You don't have to be guilty of anything to suffer the consequences of their data mining.

i completely concur. here is what is about, even if you dont see the agenda, it is most certainly there. even if you think you couldnt be targeted by these types of ploys, i assure you, you and everyone else with that false sense of security is wrong. but tell yourself whatever you have to. just keep in mind ignorance in these times is anything but bliss.

word, smallfox

The purpose is to collect as much information about you as possible and then used against you. What sort of restrictions could the government place on you if they knew everything about you?

sorry, but this doesnt make much sense to me. what are you implying here? are you trying to say that if the government sees a trend nationwide in sex parties, that they will outlaw them on a federal level? im not saying its going to always be used in the most ethical and moral way, but i dont think that there is a grand conspiracy to use peoples private information to attack the citizens of the u.s and enslave us.

People who take antidepressant medications could be restricted from buying a gun, or getting a job. People who drive over the speed limit could be charged higher insurance rates (even if they haven't been ticketed)

well, people who take antidepressants probably dont need to be handling any firearms, but stopping them from getting a job is ridiculous. could you imagine if nationwide the government said, "if your on antidepressants, you cant work until you are off of them, and get a doctors approval". i dont think i need to tell you the result of something that crazy.
if i got a letter from my insurance company saying that they received a document with a phone conversation about me doing a 110mph in a 65, and that they are going to boost up my insurance because of it, i would kick down their front door. hell, i believe in jersey, about 2 years ago, on the ed norriss show, he was talking about how you will have lower rates if your a college grad, and all kinds of other social status quo was determining your insurance rates. as if someone who barfed their way through college, is any more responsible then me, the hard working man who didnt go, but is still busting his arse on the straight path, trying to get by, and make something better of himself.

There is so much information that can be obtained and used against you (regardless of the technology being used). You don't have to be guilty of anything to suffer the consequences of their data mining.

true. hell, a top grade computer hacker (cracker, whatever) could destroy your life in a day if he wanted to. with that being said. i dont think we need to worry about the government doing a massive black mailing on the american population. i mean, i dont even want the slightest chance, that if i decide to go to a march one day against, lets say, the war on drugs, that i may all of a sudden have personal information pop up up on my employer's desk, and get fired, because he doesnt like what i like on my off time. but i would say, even a situation like that is highly unlikely, unless im the leader of the pack. why? because i wouldnt even make a dent in the actions of those in control. im irrelevant, and as the leader of that group, i would still probably be irrelevant. they know that the general population is to occupied trying to pay bills, keep their kids from being porn stars, and monitoring their loved ones for adultry, to be concerned about stuff like i-phones downloading your info to a server secretly, or the cancer patient who gets arrested and fired from his job because he was buying weed to ease his pain, or the fact that the war on drugs will forever maintain the lower class cycle spinning around and drugs and violence on the streets killing many. the list goes on. they know this, and thats their trump card. HUMAN NATURE. once you have the balls to say fck em, lets use em, you can manipulate a person in ways unimaginable.
so what do we do? falling into despair is weak and useless, but fighting back isnt making to much decent ground, and as the world divides itself more and more, it becomes harder. i say, educate yourself as if you had one week to prepare yourself to survive for the last days, and just look out for yourself, so you can look out for others.you cant fight a dragon with an infant in your arms

i dont mean to come off attacking you, but i want to see more than the, "they will take your info and use it against you", post. use it against me how? give me examples, because i take that as a blatant statement, like the government is going to black mail the entire country because they got some personal info. aint like they havent been snooping for decades.

if you love your girlfriend, your wife, your friends and family, then you should take into consideration the purpose for why you are even on a site like this. more than less likely because something you wanted has brought you here, and maybe a purpose higher than you needs you to become a "god", so when the war comes, you can protect your fellow villagers from the "demons" who wish to take away their everything. worry more about yourself, and you will probably better situate yourself to help out others. you cant live for everyone else, and expect to be able to concentrate enough on yourself to make your dreams come true.

your different, and you understand something is wrong, and the world is not going towards an inevitable positive goal of unity and peace. but thats all the more reason you should be preparing mentally, physically, and emotionally, for the tidal wave that will soon come.

paper cant fight fire

i could through out hypothetical situations about how you insuring your own survival, from having a laptop loaded with survival tactics and info from general science to different poisonous animals, to just working out once a day, will benefit more people in the end, then you think. its like a gift, i got a million of them. but all in all, dont despair and dont fool yourself because of what you see in the media. something is wrong with alot, and the people who are concerned, and are educated, know it, its something beyond just normal paranoia. i want to live in a better place too, but i gotta look out for me and make myself stronger before i can fight a dragon with an infant in my hand.

word

hope that makes some type of sense. i start to ranting and lose it. ha ha ha