Old-line Republican warns 'something's in the works' to trigger a police state

I said HUH? not because you hurt my feelings but rather your responses simply do not make any sense. I fail to understand how perferring to support the small business owner over the predatory capitalists is either indefensible or socialist (Warren Buffet is hardly a socialist and he is in favor of the wealthy being taxed more equally, as in Bill Gates, and quite a few others both Republican and Democratic) or anti-Amercian and your comment about Enron suggests more than anything that you see nothing wrong in their behaviour which, I consider indefensible; after all they are the ones who created the rolling blackouts in 2000 in California and gouged the people of that state just to make another buck. They have been tried and found guilty for those crimes; I guess its alright that thousands lost money and pensions because of their corrupt practices.

If these are examples of what you Republicans actually support, HA! Its by only stealing my vote would you ever get me to "vote" for your party; because rhetoric aside your policies are the ones hurting this country.

[edit on 23-7-2007 by grover]

Is nothing wrong with Capitalism if is use for what it was intended in its definition.

But in America Capitalism has turned into a monster that is draining our nation and its population to only benefit the ones that hold the power and the money.

Our Capitalism has blinded the people with power beyond corruption, in that it also has corrupted a system of government that was to set in place for the people and by the people.

Capitalism is suppose to be good for the people, it gives a better life, it gives dreams and prosperity.

But something has gone wrong in our nation and globally, because it now is centered and controlled by the few and not the people that are suppose to benefit.

Now the bastardized form of Capitalism we have is opening the door to for the next series of events that will move us toward dictatorship and the welfare-state.

But many people do not see this coming and the events taking place in our nation when they are put in place will do just that.

More laws, fewer liberties, the biggest hoax in our times the the war on terror, it may not be with this administration, even when the start of the corrosion of our constitutional rights has been more blatantly now than ever, but it will be enhanced by any other administration after this one.

Capitalism is not the enemy of the people and we should not blame it solely for what has been done with it, but is the people and elite that has used and abuse Capitalism to further their own agendas the ones to blame.

Capitalism is the way to prosper and acquired the American dream, but not when is control by only a few monopolists that make sure to chose who are the ones to prosper while squashing the ones that should not before they have a chance.

That is what is happening to our nation and will lead to dictatorship.

[edit on 23-7-2007 by marg6043]

When compaines start putting profits above any and everything else, its employess become willing to do any and everything else to make a profit; things that as individuals, many would never consider. There is nothing wrong with wanting to make a buck or a good profit; but there is much wrong when that profit becomes the sole consideration above anything else. There is nothing moral or amoral about capitalism; but there is much moral and amoral about the way it is applied and predatory corporate capitalism is at its heart and soul amoral.

However,

It is only predatory to you and your ilk.

To the people that still believe in the concepts that created this nation, it is the very essence of America...

So in my opinion, YOU are very very wrong and it is your strategies that hold the most danger for the future of this nation.

As far as "Enron" goes, just goes to show you....

Like socialism you want government programs that redistribute wealth. [Who wants to "take" Exxon's profits? I know who]

If you actually read my posts, you would see I referenced EXXON. In actually reading what I write, you may find responding to be somewhat more clear and concise. LOL

As for the first sentiment, thank the LORD that my opinion is as valid as yours in this country. That may change in the future, but then your attitude might continue to fool the nation and I may really live to see the downfall of this great experiment in a Democratic Republic.

I pray everyday this is not so, but only time will tell.

Semper

The latest from the government... Another "we told you so" or "we warned you" attached to the article. Definitely something in the works.

abcnews.go.com...

In an alarming display of fearmongering, former Republican Senator Rick Santorum has suggested that a series of "unfortunate events," namely terrorist attacks, will occur within the next year and change American citizen's perception of the war.

Between now and November, a lot of things are going to happen

killfile.newsvine.com...

Take a look at the false flag thread that I posted, it may have some relevance on this in October.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sorry Semper but you and your party are so out of touch with the political realites of these days that you wouldn't recognize them if it came up and bit you on the ass; which is why you might as well resign yourself to at the very least, the next 6 years as the minority party. bush minor and his neo-con fanatics are turning the GOP into political parriahs, and your presidental wannabes are so clueless that they fail to see that the population is tired of their fear mongering, narrow mindeness and hate. Your only saving grace is that the Democratic presidential wannabes aren't much better... they are better, but not by much.

Sorry old chum but its the truth. And greater and greater numbers of people are coming to see corporate globalism (which regretably was pushed by both republicans and democrats) as the scam for which it is; just like privatization; it benefits the few and screws the many.

After the dust settles in 08 the Democrats will have firm control of the presidency and an even firmer grip on both sides of congress; thank you very much Mr. Bush.

That being said I am not very optimistic about the future of this country; too much time and good will has been lost in this take no prisoners political infighting, and that time and that money are gone for good. Our grandchildren's futures will be less bright than ours thanks to it.

P.S. Don't you understand Semper that bush minor's tax cuts redistribute the wealth in this country just as surely as any liberal or Democratic policy would? The only difference is that bushes policies redistribute it upwards into the hands of the few as opposed to cultivating a wider distribution of it. The middle class in this country is dying and that does not bode well for this country, and an upward redistribution of weath is one of the biggest culpraits.

[edit on 24-7-2007 by grover]

Intheshados:

That article you posted about Rick Sanatarium (yes I know how its spelt, but the man is a loon and that is not to say anything bad about loons, they are perfectly nice birds, but still... the man is cracked ) only goes to highlight how out of touch the republicans have become.

If there is another 9/11 type of attack on U.S. soil it will only go to show how poorly we have been served by the policies of this administration because, after all if there is another attack, they will have been shown to have failed because there was another attack. Simple logic really. And they will have no one to blame it on (though they will try) and their failure will be obvious.

They have fear mongered themselves into a corner. They seem to think it is their ace in the hole "Ohhh fear the big bad terrorists... Ohhh they want to attack us again... Ohhh only republicans can keep you safe..." blah blah blah. But at the same time they have used it so often it has become the political equlivent of the boy who cried wolf... now if something happens and they try it again, they will have no one to blame but themselves.

Actually us liberals and Democrats should be grateful to bush minor and the neo-cons, they have done more to discredit the hard right conservatives and Republicans than anything we could have done.

"Way to go brownie".

The facts are very clear Grover...

We should not be in any fear of a Police State, the greatest danger to this country is the Liberal Left and their Socialist agenda.

It is your emotional foaming at the mouth rhetoric that threatens this nation at it's core. You are far more cunning and dangerous than even the Radical Muslim threat.

I wont insult you and say that you are out of touch with the political reality, you saying that about me is truly laughable and thanks for the chuckle, no, you and your kind are very in touch with political realities. The danger is that you don't care.

You don't care about the future of the country as long as your socialist agenda goes through.

The actions of the left would make a Marxist so proud.

You don't care about the state of the economy. Although you are very good at wording your concern for the "average" joe, the fact that you ignore the facts, distort the truth and out right lie, is proof that you care not, caring only for your own agenda.

The liberal/socialist ideal is the single greatest threat to this country and freedom that has ever existed.

It makes Hitler look like a school boy.

Semper

I know you actually believe that nonsense but it really is very funny. Mush Loosebowels and his ilk have you guys really brainwashed which is too bad because there is so much we could work together on. I have said it once and I will say it again being liberal is more of an attitude than anything else and certianly is not the monolithic ideology you imagine, much less a socialistic or anti-American one but since you refuse to even consider that; there is not much I can say about it.

As brainwashed as we are...

We are the ones that continue to use appropriate decorum when debating our political opponents and refuse to stoop to the level of making fun of names as if we were in kindergarten Grover.

We continue to give you the respect of a reply even though you throw that respect out the window every time you post in that juvenile style.

As brainwashed as we are, we continue to deal only in the facts pertinent to the debate and refuse to get into the gutter where you choose to debate.

So who is more brainwashed?

Or perhaps you simply can't debate your side without the use of childish monikers to give your argument at least some attraction.

Semper

While I may have respect for you Semper; i do not have any for mush loosebowels and refuse to pretend that I do; and just because I don't have any for him, it does not automatically translate that that lack of respect for him is spread across the board.

I have said repeatedly that I can respect both conservatives and Republicans, though we disagree; it is the extremists, the neo-cons, the hard right and the funnymentalists that have taken over your party that I take objection to; and most notibly their assertion that if I do not think like they do, I am somehow less of an American or that I am somehow suspect and not a patriot as a result. I find such bullhooey deeply offensive and it pains me when I read you mouthing the same obscene platitudes.

What has happened to you Semper? We were able to talk and agree to disagree but you have become far more strident and intolarant of late. AND before you accuse me of the same; remember, as I do, it goes both ways.

I know Grover....

It is just politic time and I am really afraid for our country this time around.

I guess I am more intolerant than usual and I apologize for that.

I have worked really really hard to get from that dirt farm in West Virginia to where I am now and more and more I see the Liberals coming in and taking away from me what I have struggled so long for, to give it to someone that has never worked a hard day in their lives and I get really really mad about that. The idea that the tax cuts would be repealed is in my opinion criminal and anyone that calls for it should be locked up...

That and a lot of other things are getting my goat...

So, Grover... Friends again?

This beer is on me....

Semper

I started getting tired, so I didn't get through the whole thread ...

but to people who claim there is no evidence for those who try to convince others ... and we are just conspiracy happy (which I try to have no pre-conceived notions ... I wish the world was sweet and happy)

I had tried to convince my family for some time ... I think I got the 'sure, whatever' agreement ... and what further solidified that is when my last attempt to open my mother's eyes ... finally started to break through as a reality, not just a 'story' or something I picked up from the internet.

I was showing pictures of the hole in the Pentagon and the debris ... lack of surrounding surviellence camera videos being released, etc. still had that kind of blah look on her face ... been over the structure of the towers and where the planes hit (one didn't even contact the central structure), the possibility of radio controlled planes (like they use for crash testing), the collapse rate vs. impacting floors, and planned demolitions other places ... the molten metal, the residual heat, the seizmic readings ... etc. she did find it all interesting, but ...

when I showed her the Oklahoma building still standing after being bombed, then showed her the way WTC7 fell ... her eyes opened wider and said, there really is something to what you are saying. I played the building falling several times, pointed out how the top collapsed (the center of the building started to fall just before the outside) ... she then said she didn't realize that building had fallen. Then I told her those are the only three buildings to ever fall from a fire ... two quarter mile tall buildings hit near the top burning for an hour, and a building that wasn't hit by anything, and the surrounding buildings, which would have had the same debris, had no similar damage. That the guy who bought the towers, took out an insurance policy and made money on them falling, the 7 building had Enron papers, as well as a lot of other sensitive documents from various gov't organizations.

That night, I made a believer out of her ... from the evidence. Once you get them to see one thing, the other stuff makes more sense. But, people won't see what they don't want to, until you make it so clear on at least one portion, to break that glazed over attitude the media, even local news, has put the people in our society into.

There are a lot of ideas and theories that are hard to accept for a lot of people ... but if you can see the truth through the haze, you need to find your way to share it. Society seem to trust the unseen government more than the humans in their daily lives.

I agree some young people are caught up in junk, and they have been slowly teaching them to be ok with control ... but, i think the inherent rebel attitude will come back when they start to feel the oppression ... I think the youth are sleeping with one eye open, and will take the role of revolutionaries if and when the time comes.

The administration has set the timing and path ... will they take it? They have gone far to achieve their goals recently ... and the same has happened in the past. History does tend to repeat itself ... but, we have all studied about WWII in school, and when we see the line being crossed ... the fire in people's hearts will begin to burn again. The world has seen many people and governments try to oppress the people of the world ... they never rule forever ... Rome ... Nazi ... they all fall, whether swiftly or not. Even slaves managed to escape and find freedom from their oppressors, and they didn't have much more to escape with but their feet. We will never be beaten ... it is in our spirit/souls to be free and rise up against corruption. Long live the resistance ... the resistance against tyranny ... abuses of power. There are countries out there to support us, if our government does try to squash the true patriots, but we have to stand up for ourselves first.

I never said we weren't friends Semper so be careful I may hold you to that beer (or more); I do want to add 2 comments though;

(1) your opinion of liberals needs to change; we are not the boogie man you seem to think we are... so many of us are just like you, God-fearing people of faith who want to do right by our nation and our world. We find ourselves liberals because we have found that call for compassion and charity in our respective faiths and take it seriously. This is true whether we are Jews, Christians, Muslims and Buddhists among others. There are far more of us like that than there are socialists or atheists. Like I have said many times now, liberal is more an attitude than it is anything else, but more than anything it is not monolithic in nature, ideology or thought processes.

(2) Historically speaking (and you can look this up) when the tax burden falls heaviest on the lower and middle classes than it does the upper classes; that nation becomes ripe for revolution.

The problem with the states is not only brainwashing, but simple ignorance. Not able to identify major countries on the map, yet supporting a war in a country that you can't even pronounce correctly? How does that make sense?

When the time comes to stand up and the revolutionaries pop out start forming groups I will be there.

I think that we should really start focusing on the news but being very keen to what happens and why. Before the next elections we will have a war. Not some BS war on terror but ww3. Hell it might even be with our own country.

Just remember to stand together we are all brothers in this.

I think its B.S. With the Bush approval rating this low there is no way he could sustain a police state. First there would be a lot of trouble just getting the military to go along with the plan. Second there are plenty of well armed citizens to oppose any such power grab. Police states are usually formed when there is tremendous support for the supreme leader. Look at what Putin is doing in Russia now, or Chavez in Venezuela or what Hitler did in Germany. Bush is a saint compared to those guys. In fact I don't really see what Bush has done wrong, other than behave like any tax and spend democrat from the 60's and 70's. Even his foreign entanglements and bumbling in Iraq is reminiscent of LBJ in Vietnam. There are no real impeachable offenses other than some very feeble accusations tossed around by the opposition party.

I'd be much more worried about the Clintons. They are basically gangsters and traitors with no moral compunctions whatsoever. There is a trail of dead bodies a mile long and all kinds of financial corruption including the sale of missile technology to China for campaign cash. They hate the U.S. and the U.S. military and would love to see a socialist dictatorship with them at the helm. I think Hitlery will attempt a complete marxist makeover for the U.S. along the lines of what Hugo is doing in Venezuela.

I disagree SevenT. I don't believe this has anything to do with Bush or his approval rating. GWB is a relatively minor player in the scheme of things. The population is easily manipulated. Remember what happened immediately after 911? The government fed us all manner of BS and we gobbled it up. We eagerly agreed to giveup our rights vis a vis the Patriot Act to stay safe. We swallowed their story of 911 whole (box cutters, terrorists, the amazing passport). U.S. flag producers couldn't make them fast enough. Everyone was wearing U.S. flag lapel pins.

All they need is another similar event and people will line-up just like post-911. And given the fact that we haven't been able to get an independent, fully vetted investigation of the events surrounding 911 (and the anthrax event) in the 6yrs since, they know they can get awaywith it. Again.

My point was that this is a terrible time to try a takeover. People are pissed off. Yes a large scale attack against the U.S. will make it easier to declare martial law, but it will be immensely unpopular and unsustainable because of the current political climate. It would be far more crafty to wait until Hillary seizes power. We know of course that the presidents are just puppets anyway, and that the real wielders of power sit behind the scenes.