Originally posted by jsobecky

dg you shouldn't be so afraid of a state of martial law. Just think of it - you will be living a very exciting historical time, and have the opportunity to make real changes. It's a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity!

And even if they caught you, I think they'd release you soon enough. You'd talk their ear off until you drove them crazy.

I knew it! That was you behind my trees in my back yard. They would be so lucky to run into me- I can change the minds of evil men... turn good men evil..
And swear at them like a sailor in Spanish, just because a lady shouldnt swear in English.

Next time you're in my yard, please do come in. My bags are packed and my husband thinks you're my cousin just arrived from Cuba.

Originally posted by jsobecky
The high foreclosure rate is largely a result of ARMs coming due. The economy is very strong; the DOW closed at a record high above 14,000 this week. Of course the explanation is not that simple; the economy is complex, but I wanted to address your point about home foreclosures.

The stock market is doing well from foreign business ventures not just domestic ones unless they are tied to Oil or the Defense industry. Caterpillar is at a low since construction has slowed, and Profit estimates although they mostly surpassed them were dismal . IBM was a big push to the dow this quarter. They laid off thousands of employees and sold off their notebook division to lenovo a while back. I would bet that outsourcing is one of their big helpers this year.

The dollar is almost at record lows vs the Euro.

It is an economic fact that every other currency is rated in value to the dollar, not the other way around...In regards to world values.

that is your opinion and not that of the rest of the known universe.

semperfortis

You still believing in the president and the lies of a strong economy.

That is OK if makes you feel safe.

But for the real people in this nation that live everyday with the struggles of a nation trillions of dollar deficit and catastrophic war cost we see in our neighborhoods how people are losing their American dream.

But as long as it doesn't happen next to you everything is peachy.

I live in one of the states that happen to be at the top of mortgage foreclosures.

And I see it everyday whenever I step out of my home in my own backyard.

And that is my life reality.

[edit on 21-7-2007 by marg6043]

So the REALITY of the FACTS and FIGURES that "I" posted have less impact than your personal experiences?

Is that what your saying?

That because YOU think it, because YOU feel it, that it must be that way?

The links I posted are very clear in explaining the economic boon we are currently in.

It is a FACT that the standard of living has NEVER been HIGHER.

It is a FACT that more people are gainfully employed in medium to high paying jobs.

It is a FACT that more people are employed period.

It is a FACT that the stock exchange is rocketing and more and more PEOPLE are making successful lives with investments.

It is a FACT that even with the incredible hike in gas prices, PEOPLE all over the COUNTRY are taking MORE vacations and DRIVING there than ever before. The reason? They are making more money and can afford to..

Those are all facts...

Not suppositions, or emotional sentiments... FACTS

Of course this could all be just the wonderful days before the police state. Well that and we are all going to turn into energy bolts and go into the sun. Oh Yeah, the Saints are going to win the Super Bowl too.

Semper

Semper

We can all speculate, state facts, state opinions, and provide links, but there is no real way of knowing whats going to happen...until it happens. We can put together facts, etc., but the reality is we will never know until it happens or doesn't happen.

Their article doesn't make sense. Why would Republicans be PRAYING for another 9/11? The who Republican stance is that they keep America safe...if their was a terror attack, then that would be the only positive thing they have demolished.

Originally posted by piacenza
I think this beautiful phrase sums it up:

First they came for the Socialists, and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists,
and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn’t a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up, because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me,
and there was no one left to speak up for me.

Martin Niemöller

anti-flag has that in one of their songs

There really is nothing anyone can do now, it’s not even a joke anymore or if, but indeed when.

My 52 year old Mother has only been online with my pc with me at the keyboard (looking up advice on meds and such like, you know the score) she watches the local and international news on TV at night and is of the opinion that people are good and want to do good.

I don’t talk to her about these issues and don’t see the point, for one she’s the type to worry and two; I did not really think before the 19th of july 2007, that she would really understand. We were having a family BBQ on the 19th and she was talking to my auntie about the war in Iraq, how it was bad that all these people had to die and how different a war it is, as there is so much now-a-days on the news, I said, without even thinking, “yea mum, its not great now” she turned to me and said, “you know that bush one will would kill American people to get his own way” I just stopped and looked at her, as this is so not her, so not what she is about and really, I had no idea she would even think this. If a woman like her (great cook, great mother and grandmother) can see by just watching mainstream news, “that bush one will would kill American people to get his own way” then it really must be staring us all in the face.

I asked her if she worried about this and told her that there was nothing to worry about (I know there is a lot to worry about, but shes my mum and I don’t want her worrying about these things) she told me that she only worried, because she did not see a future for her children in this world today. I was truly taken back by her comments and when I see her at night, watching the news now, I think to myself, what she must be thinking about the whole thing.

I don’t think we can do anything, they are too much now and we, in comparison, are nothing.

The fact is wages are stagnate.

The fact is a large precentage of the jobs being created are lower end service sector jobs; even you could be a greeter at walmart semper.

The fact is we are losing more and more jobs to out sourcing.

The fact is workers are being expected to do more work for the same amount of pay, and they are doing it out of fear of losing their job; end result, actual wage loss.

The fact is the stock market has nothing to do with actual productivity, how well the economy is doing, or the actual economic health of the country; is is just another form of gambling; you are betting stock prices will rise or fall and it doesn't mean jack to joe blow in Iowa.

The fact is the housing bubble has burst and it is just a matter of time before it and gas prices drag the rest of the economy down.

The fact is more people are deeper in debt than ever before.

The fact is the defict and the national debt along with the massive tax cuts for the wealthy are actually holding the economy down since those dollars are not being recycled back into the local economies where they actually do the most good. (Buy local, buy small business, screw wal-mart)

The fact is the monies lost to the war will never be regained much to the detriment to the economic health of the country.

All that money spent on unwarranted tax cuts for the already wealthy, the deficit (where there was a surplus) and the war will never be regained and the amount of good that it could have done is also lost. So much from social security to better schools, to rebuilding the superstructure of our nation to, yes even national health care will now go unadressed because of it.

I have been a longtime harbinger of economic problems and people always rebut my position by citing the stock market. As Grover pointed out, the markets have nothing to do with our real economy. The stockmarket is a gloabl market. Its movement is largely driven by corporate profit reports. Those corporate profits are driven by global sales --- not sales in the U.S. So while these corporations are reaping obscene profits (most of it in the energy, military-industrial and banking sectors) the retail sector, the part we all live in is teetering on the abyss. Grover's right. Wake up people.

Thank you Jsobecky,

Finally someone that knows something about the economy...

The anti-capitalists are so ready to post doom and gloom and those that are not really into the economy believe the lies they spout...

Much like the so called up-coming police state... Of course that does provide some humor on a boring Sunday after church..

Thank goodness there are still those that see and only report the truth...

Semper

Their article doesn't make sense. Why would Republicans be PRAYING for another 9/11? The who Republican stance is that they keep America safe...if their was a terror attack, then that would be the only positive thing they have demolished.

This isn't actually about the Republican party. It's about the neo-cons who have hi-jacked the party. It should now be called the "globalist party".

As far as police state, America isn't even close to being a "police state" as China is, Russia....or North Korea. They are true police states. But America is close behind. What makes this situation more interesting is that they are closer to policing the world than any other nation.
Interesting times.

Semper to suggest that us liberals and Democrats are anti-capitalists across the board (some old 60's radicals still are I am sure but they have always been a minority) only goes to highlight how much you have bought into your parties rhetoric, as opposed to reflecting any reality. With the exception of Bernie Saunders (I-Vt) there are no socialists in congress, and he is more by name only than anything else. If anything he could be best described as a main street capitalist as opposed to a socialist.

Capitalism takes a variety of forms but for this discussion there are only two that matter in America.

(1) The mom and pop main steet capitalists; the real bread and butter of this country; the type that employs the majority of the people in this country. The type I support by choosing to pay a little more to buy locally than to save a few dollars by buying box store. These are the people who for ages were the mainstay of the Republican party, and to whom your party still mouths platitudes while selling them out to the second type of capitalism which is:

(2) The predatory corporate, take no prisoners capitalism that is typlified by the wastelands that follow in the wake of the likes of mal-warts; the type that sucks air and money out of the local economies. I have seen many a main street bare to the bone after the advent of the big box stores which is why many localities are now fighting them. But you also see in in corporate mergers in which the quality and the quanity of customer service nose dives with each merger while the cost of doing business with them goes up. These are the businesses who put profit first and foremost and what little they give back to the community is rarely nothing more than a public relations ploy. I hate it when I have to give my money to these types; but feel proud when I give it to, the local farmer, the local clothes merchant, the local anything. I know I am doing good then. But for the predatory capitalist, they are the ones in their push towards the cheapest, the lowest common denominator, the least service for the most cost, they are the ones as typlified by their policies that poison our pets, our toothpaste and create the junk, that they then do their best to convince us that we cannot live without, that cheapens and weakens our country.

Crips...bloods.... verizon.... wal-mart.... not much difference really. Same cold blooded greed.

Recently the 3rd richest man in the world, Warren Buffet, in a discussion about the growing inequity between the wealthiest and the rest of us pointed out that his tax rate was 17.7% while his secectaries was 30%, and to his credit he was pointing out how wrong this was. Still there are those I am sure, even those in that 30% bracket who see nothing wrong with it.


[edit on 22-7-2007 by grover]

Thanks forestlady, I just step in for a moment in ATS and is amazing what has transpired since yesterday with our nations foreign affairs.

Grover no matter what, the type of capitalism in our nation is control by the very few, and is nothing more than a greedy, dirty, bastardized interpretation of it.

The meaning of capitalism and its intended targeting has nothing to do with what is going on and been practice in our nation.

[edit on 22-7-2007 by marg6043]

Grover,

The fact that you can defend such an indefensible position and include a veiled supposition that "I" can be influenced by anyone or anything, shows that YOU are indeed completely befuddled by the socialist lefts emotional brainwashing.

The thing that you have always missed and apparently continue to do so, is that having a positive view of current events and the overall health of the economy in no way implies any intellect less than yours. As such it is apparently you, who are caught up in the doom and gloom BS that the socialist left continues to waft out even under unsurmountable evidence to the contrary. Being that susceptible to obvious propaganda is decidedly more indicative of you being under some kind of spell, rather than clear minded thinking individuals that actually see things as they are.

The very concept of the possibility of a Police State is rather foolish and immature. It has however allowed something of a platform for exposing more of the socialist left lies. That is always a good thing...

Semper

Semper,

I really like you- all the girls do

But are you on planet Earth?