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Gaining knowledge and wisdom through paranormal practice

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posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 08:08 PM
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I have recently been studying a man named Dr John Dee, who I find to be a very interesting historical figure. Dr John Dee was an incredibly intelligent scientist, and it turns out that he attributes much of knowledge and wisdom to "other-worldly" beings, who he refers to as angels and demons. He claims that through a medium he was frequently in contact with angels and demons who provided him with knowledge and wisdom.

My question is: Is there anyone here who has used paranormal means, such as contacting spirits, to gain knowledge and/or wisdom? And if so, how do you go about it?

My thirst for knowledge is sometimes insufficiently quenched by conventional means, so I'm always open to new ideas. Any thoughts?




posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 11:30 AM
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well yes, this truly exists I mustn't say.

these beings live in the eternity of 'death', and comfort you with their timeless knowledge and wisdom. When initiated into their teachings your on a road of enlightment. They adjust and make you practice the universal language. The language of true love.

demons on the other side can be but a pain in the ass. Spreading havoc and chaos in your mind, and in your life.

How you get to them? I hear you say..

ask for knowledge, live truly with the purpose of gaining knowledge and insight and it shall be given to you..........................



[edit on 24-7-2007 by etherical waterwave]



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 11:39 AM
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I do believe this is possible. I am a medium myself and because of that I regularly have contact with entities (which are my way of describing anything other than human that contains some level of conciousness).

I believe the way we look at these beings is mainly decided by cultural background. What one refers to as angels, another one will refer to as elves.

Just as with our "normal" world, we are able to communicate with and learn from other entities.

There are several ways to achieve this, meditation, dreaming, focussing etcetera. Just pick a method that fits you. The key is to enhance your intuition. Some people can hear other entities, some see them or dream of them. If you don't have any experience in communicating with other entities, there is no way of telling how you will experience them. However I'm very curious about your findings.

Good Luck!
Juliet



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 12:45 PM
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Personally, I wouldn't go seeking for Angels or Demons because I believe the very sight of one could drive a man insane. But thats just my opinion, do with it as you will.


[edit on 24-7-2007 by Motion-Man]



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 01:44 PM
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Originally posted by Motion-Man
Personally, I wouldn't go seeking for Angels or Demons because I believe the very sight of one could drive a man insane. But thats just my opinion, do with it as you will.


I think in my current state of knowledge in regards to ethereal realms and the like the mere sight of such an entity would quite possibly be detrimental to my mental state. However, I think if I work my way up, and sort of desensitize myself to the ideas of paranormal phenomena I can eventually reach a point at which I can commune with other-worldly beings, if they do, in fact, exist.

As for those who say it is possible, I do have another question. What are some things I can do to open my mind up to these things? I mean, are gaining more and more knowledge and meditation the only ways? And if so, what sort of places should I look for knowledge that will help me in these regards?

Also, is it possible that there are people who simply do not have the capacity to do such things, and must therefore utilize a third party, (i.e. a medium)?



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 02:05 PM
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I mean, are gaining more and more knowledge and meditation the only ways?

No there are many ways, but it's very hard to know for someone else what is the way for you. Some people get in a "special" state of mind trough music, drawing or running. You'll just have to try it out.

Also, is it possible that there are people who simply do not have the capacity to do such things, and must therefore utilize a third party, (i.e. a medium)?
It happens but in my opinion most of the people can learn to get into contact with other beings.

Also I agree with the thing said in the previous post... don't start aiming for demons and all straight away... and as for the angels they'll find you when the time is right.

Juliet



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 02:19 PM
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If you want to learn more of what Dee was involved with study anything relating Enochia(n).



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 02:47 PM
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Originally posted by Enyalius
If you want to learn more of what Dee was involved with study anything relating Enochia(n).


I began research on Enochian practices, and have discovered that it is well beyond my capabilities both supernaturally and intellectually. It's a ridiculously complex practice, the likes of which I doubt anyone could understand without beginning with something far simpler and working their way up. Perhaps in the future I will delve into it some, but perhaps for now I'll stick with something simple, like sex magick or something.


I think I need to start getting more into meditation first and foremost. Hopefully as I get more involved in meditation a path will become more clear to me. I believe meditation to be a powerful medium through which to learn about oneself and and life in general, I just have no basis for this as I have little to no experience with it.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by an3rkist


I began research on Enochian practices, and have discovered that it is well beyond my capabilities both supernaturally and intellectually. It's a ridiculously complex practice, the likes of which I doubt anyone could understand without beginning with something far simpler and working their way up.


The system of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn was designed to culminate in Enochian Magick, which united the various Kabalistic and Eastern Techniques taught in the Outer Order. If you are truly interested in pursuing Enochian Magick, I strongly recommend that you acquire and closely study this book.

You may also want to check out "The Vision and the Voice" by Aleister Crowley. This is a detailed record of the visions received by Crowley while experimenting with the Calls of the Aethyrs in the Enochian System.



[edit on 25-7-2007 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 02:39 PM
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Perhaps this is an unusual question, but as an atheist I think there is something...missing - in all of this. I mean, this is about contacting other-worldly entities, and it seems that most people refer to them as "angels" and "demons". Because I do not believe in God, I do not believe in angels or demons, atleast not in the literal sense of those terms.

Will the lack of belief in God prove to be a hindrance in this? I'm open to the idea that there are other-worldly or other-dimensional beings, so I don't see this as a problem, but I just wanted to make sure.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
My question is: Is there anyone here who has used paranormal means, such as contacting spirits, to gain knowledge and/or wisdom? And if so, how do you go about it?

My thirst for knowledge is sometimes insufficiently quenched by conventional means, so I'm always open to new ideas. Any thoughts?
If you want to start with something quite safe, why not try dream incubation. The more hits you get the more confident (and convinced) you'll become. You'll get answers to questions in your dreams and you'll probably start getting precognitive dreams too. I started a thread on it recently. It's dropped down the list a wee bit but still easy to find.I understand your nervousness. I've been interested in everything paranormal all my life but it still gives me massive creeps at times.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
Perhaps this is an unusual question, but as an atheist I think there is something...missing - in all of this. I mean, this is about contacting other-worldly entities, and it seems that most people refer to them as "angels" and "demons". Because I do not believe in God, I do not believe in angels or demons, atleast not in the literal sense of those terms.


Ultimately, I don't think that belief or disbelief in God would matter. Aleister Crowley, for example, considered "angels" and "demons" to be natural forces latent within the human psyche. Most modern occultists and Ceremonial Magicians follow his line of thought on this, more or less.

It should be noted, however, that even Crowley considered the Enochian Forces as existing on a higher plane than the "normal" angels and demons, which exist only on the astral plane, or world of imagination. Therefore, while recommending the study and practice of Enochiana to those who have done the work and know what they're doing, I would urge caution in "playing" with the system.



[edit on 25-7-2007 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 07:07 PM
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Well, firstly, you have to be open to supernatural influence.

For one, you have to truly believe such things experience. Now, that is not to say that unbelievers don't experience supernatural events, but in order to gain knowledge from entities, one has to believe it's possible.

Also, you have to spend a good amount of time in solitude and silence... One of the arts that have been lost through the centuries is the art of listening.. Listen to not only exterior sounds, but inner as well.



posted on Jul, 25 2007 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Now, that is not to say that unbelievers don't experience supernatural events, but in order to gain knowledge from entities, one has to believe it's possible.

Also, you have to spend a good amount of time in solitude and silence... One of the arts that have been lost through the centuries is the art of listening.. Listen to not only exterior sounds, but inner as well.


I'd like to point out that I'm very hesitant to use the words "paranormal" or "supernatural" in reference to these things we're talking about. I do not believe these things are NOT part of Nature. I'm reminded of the quote by Agent Scully that you can see in my signature.

I'm extremely open to the possibilities of things that defy explanation;certainly things that would be described as supernatural, I just don't like that term because I believe they are, in fact, natural.

I suppose meditation would be a likely candidate for a medium through which to attain silence. I know I would greatly benefit from meditation because my mind is constantly running a hundred different directions, and perhaps if I could focus on one thing the silence and serenity in my mind would leave it open to observing things that have gone unnoticed.


Cug

posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 01:57 AM
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Looks like I missed this one. Just a quick post to catch up on the thread.. if you want more info just ask.


Originally posted by an3rkist
My question is: Is there anyone here who has used paranormal means, such as contacting spirits, to gain knowledge and/or wisdom? And if so, how do you go about it?


I have been doing that for 20 years now. How to go about it has filled many books with thousands of pages.


Originally posted by an3rkist

As for those who say it is possible, I do have another question. What are some things I can do to open my mind up to these things? I mean, are gaining more and more knowledge and meditation the only ways? And if so, what sort of places should I look for knowledge that will help me in these regards?


The number one thing IMHO is Yoga. (real yoga not just the exercise)


Also, is it possible that there are people who simply do not have the capacity to do such things, and must therefore utilize a third party, (i.e. a medium)?


Everybody can do them. Some may not see as well but everybody can do it.


Originally posted by an3rkist

I began research on Enochian practices, and have discovered that it is well beyond my capabilities both supernaturally and intellectually. It's a ridiculously complex practice, the likes of which I doubt anyone could understand without beginning with something far simpler and working their way up. Perhaps in the future I will delve into it some, but perhaps for now I'll stick with something simple, like sex magick or something.


Sex Magick can be way more complex than Enochian at times. in any case magical ritual is really pretty simple once you know the basics. Everything uses the same basic steps.


Originally posted by an3rkist

Will the lack of belief in God prove to be a hindrance in this? I'm open to the idea that there are other-worldly or other-dimensional beings, so I don't see this as a problem, but I just wanted to make sure.


For lack of a better word I'm pretty much an atheist myself. (There is no God but Man) I have no problems invoking the Jewish holy names of God, Egyptian Gods, whatever... they are just words/ideas that effect certain portions of the mind.


Originally posted by an3rkist

I'd like to point out that I'm very hesitant to use the words "paranormal" or "supernatural" in reference to these things we're talking about. I do not believe these things are NOT part of Nature.


That's the very reason I never bothered to look at this thread.


Anyway the Golden Dawn Book Masonic Light posted is a good choice. I would like to recommend Modern Magick by Donald Michael Kraig as one of the best intros to Ceremonial Magick. Reading this book will give you a jumpstart to understanding what people like Regardie, Levi, Crowley, Dee write.



posted on Jul, 26 2007 @ 08:03 AM
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Originally posted by Cug
I would like to recommend Modern Magick by Donald Michael Kraig as one of the best intros to Ceremonial Magick. Reading this book will give you a jumpstart to understanding what people like Regardie, Levi, Crowley, Dee write.


I second that, and also recommend Kraig's book to beginners interested in the subject. It is unfortunate, however, that he devotes so little to Enochian Magick in that book, seemingly following in Case's footsteps (Brother Kraig is also a member of BOTA).



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by Cug
I have been doing that for 20 years now. How to go about it has filled many books with thousands of pages.


Sounds like I've got a long road ahead of me. Thankfully I'm barely 22 and perhaps have an endless number of lifetimes with which to learn truth. (I've yet to be convinced, but certainly wouldn't be too depressed with that theory.)


The number one thing IMHO is Yoga. (real yoga not just the exercise)


I must need to do some research into Yoga, as I know nothing of it aside from the mainstream exercise advertised on late-night infomercials.


Sex Magick can be way more complex than Enochian at times. in any case magical ritual is really pretty simple once you know the basics. Everything uses the same basic steps.


Wow, if I had known the basics involved the physical ecstasy involved in sexual gratification I would have gotten into magical ritual years ago!
(I know that's not what you meant.) And yes, I know sex magick is more about focusing energy than physical gratification. Nothing wrong with having fun while focusing energy, though.


I have no problems invoking the Jewish holy names of God, Egyptian Gods, whatever... they are just words/ideas that effect certain portions of the mind.


Does that not seem hypocritical to you? I don't believe in speaking falacies, whether I believe them or not, in order to achieve a state of focus or whatever. I wouldn't dare input names of entities I don't believe in into any "rituals" I would perform. I would think that if these effects can be attained through the invoking of false deities that there is no valid reason to presume the effects of the invocation are real.


Cug

posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 07:16 PM
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Originally posted by an3rkist
Does that not seem hypocritical to you? I don't believe in speaking falacies, whether I believe them or not, in order to achieve a state of focus or whatever. I wouldn't dare input names of entities I don't believe in into any "rituals" I would perform. I would think that if these effects can be attained through the invoking of false deities that there is no valid reason to presume the effects of the invocation are real.


Humm it's sounds like you really are more anti-religion than an atheist. But anyway, It matters not one bit how any particular religion uses a term.

The basic idea is there exists certain basic truths.. the religions of the world have all incorporated bits and pieces of the truths, and hid them inside their religion. If a religious group decides that stop signs are in fact physical manifestations of their god, would you stop at intersections or start ignoring stop signs as a silly religious belief?

They are just names that represent certain ideas, and if I call upon those names certain results will follow. The names themselves just don't matter. If I call upon the holy name of Wile E. Coyote I can have any "traps" my enemy sets for me backfire and ensnare them.



posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by Cug
Humm it's sounds like you really are more anti-religion than an atheist


I am BOTH anti-religon and atheist.


It matters not one bit how any particular religion uses a term.


I beg to differ. As an example, the Christian religion uses the term Satan to refer to an actual being. From my understanding, "true" Satanists use the term Satan as a metaphor for individuality, and do not actually believe in Satan as an actual entity or being.

The different definitions change the uses of the term so intensely that followers of the Christian faiths automatically assume that Satanists literally worship the BEING Satan. I suppose what you mean to say is that you need to define the terms you use yourself, and that "mainstream" definitions of the terms need not apply to the way in which you yourself utilize them.

If that is the case, I suppose it could be justified to use such terms, but then I would raise the question of why you do not just design your own words to use. It would seem lazy to me to just use pre-made terms, and I would even consider it blasphemous to your own sense of belief.


The basic idea is there exists certain basic truths.. the religions of the world have all incorporated bits and pieces of the truths, and hid them inside their religion.


I agree with this one hundred percent. I believe that each of us is a "god" of our own realities, and that the God/Allah/etc. of each religion is a metaphor for our inner selves, if you will. I think my understanding of this theory differs from yours, but I still agree with the above statement.


If a religious group decides that stop signs are in fact physical manifestations of their god, would you stop at intersections or start ignoring stop signs as a silly religious belief?


I don't fully comprehend your analogy, which may be the fault of my own ignorance. I interpret things the way I interpret them. The way in which any given religion interprets an object is irrelevant to me.

For example, the cross is an oft used symbol of Christianity. Some even believe this symbol protects them in one way or another, and wear it around their necks or carry it with them at all times. I do not carry a cross with me. This is not because Christians DO use it, but because I have no reason to. If the cross meant something to me, I would not stop carrying it just because it means something else to other people.

As aforementioned, I may have misunderstood your analogy, and thus what I just explained may make me sound stupid, but I interpretted as such and there you have my explanation of my interpretation of your analogy.


They are just names that represent certain ideas, and if I call upon those names certain results will follow. The names themselves just don't matter. If I call upon the holy name of Wile E. Coyote I can have any "traps" my enemy sets for me backfire and ensnare them.


Why do you choose to use the names of Christian deities as opposed to others then? If it doesn't make a difference, what has inspired you to use the names of those specific deities in which you don't believe in? Is it merely convenience? And if so, is this a valid reason for you?


Cug

posted on Jul, 27 2007 @ 10:05 PM
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BTW, Very good questions! I'm enjoying this discussion.



Originally posted by an3rkist
I beg to differ. As an example, the Christian religion uses the term Satan to refer to an actual being. From my understanding, "true" Satanists use the term Satan as a metaphor for individuality, and do not actually believe in Satan as an actual entity or being.


In the case of the Satanists, using the word Satan is also kinda like giving the finger to Christians and also a reminder to your mind (for a former Christian) that you are no longer a Christian.



If that is the case, I suppose it could be justified to use such terms, but then I would raise the question of why you do not just design your own words to use. It would seem lazy to me to just use pre-made terms, and I would even consider it blasphemous to your own sense of belief.


Think of it like this.. the terms/ideas our ours, the religions of the world are using our terms not the other way around. in other words they were the lazy ones.


Come to think of it you might consider that the original terms being lost to history, but the ideas still survive in the worlds religions, and those being around for a long time have made a connection between the word and the idea in the... err... I guess you could call it the collective unconscious as per Jung.


I agree with this one hundred percent. I believe that each of us is a "god" of our own realities, and that the God/Allah/etc. of each religion is a metaphor for our inner selves, if you will.


Bingo.



I don't fully comprehend your analogy, which may be the fault of my own ignorance. I interpret things the way I interpret them. The way in which any given religion interprets an object is irrelevant to me.


If it is irrelevant to you why would you have a problem using the Hebrew God name AGLA? (that stands for Ah-tah Gee-boor Lih-oh-lam Ah-doh-nye translated as Thou art great forever, my Lord.) In Judaism "my Lord" of course stands for God. but in your case it would stand for your inner self.


This is not because Christians DO use it, but because I have no reason to. If the cross meant something to me, I would not stop carrying it just because it means something else to other people.


So if you could find an reason to carry a cross that means something to you, you would have no problem?



Why do you choose to use the names of Christian deities as opposed to others then? If it doesn't make a difference, what has inspired you to use the names of those specific deities in which you don't believe in? Is it merely convenience? And if so, is this a valid reason for you?


Well in most cases it would be Jewish or Egyptian deities but anyway...

Personally convenience works for me for the most part. Add to that the power invested into them over time. But then I don't have a problem with other religions.. they are just not for me.



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