lets quit screwing around and prove or disprove the bible: here is how

i know its not noah, but its still on topic

users.netconnect.com.au...

proof of the parting of the red sea

reply to post by edsinger


Turkey is a Muslim nation in the same way that Sweden is a Lutheran nation. It's a strongly secular state that, much to your delight I'm sure, is actually accused of suppressing a lot of Muslim customs - such as headscarves for women.

Turkey does allow visitors to Ararat. It requires filing with the Turkish government, and the use of local guides. For exactly the same reason Nepal demands the same thing of people wanting to climb Everest - It's a dangerous place, and the last thing Turkey wants is a bunch of dead tourists clinging to a glacier to be in the news.

Yes, glacier. Ararat is covered with ice. Good luck finding that boat. If it were there to be found, the locals in Iğdır would have either turned it into a huge tourist destination... or used it for firewood, depending on how long ago they found it.

[edit on 12-6-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

Lets get down to the blunt, abrasive truth here.

There may or may not be a "god", but the fact is no one knows. There is a reason it is called faith.

Organized religion is nothing more than a crutch for uneducated, weak minded people. Need an example? Ever wonder why so many prison inmates become "born again"?

Organized religion is dangerous at the very least, and downright catastrophic to humanity at the worst.

[edit on 12-6-2008 by slackerwire]

reply to post by Boondock78


The bible does actually give dimensions for the Ark. Roughly 500 feet long, roughly 70 feet wide, roughly 80 feet deep

Basically the world's most gigantic canoe.

Boondock78


"" lets quit screwing around and prove or ...""



Well, I hate to tell you, but you're late to the party.

It's BEEN proven, AND you'll NEVER hear that on the MSN

because they answer to a group of liars at a level we never see

who don't allow truth to be told to the masses.



video.google.com...#


video.google.com...#








[edit on 12-6-2008 by toasted]

reply to post by toasted


What exactly were those videos supposed to prove?

Originally posted by slackerwire
reply to post by toasted

 

What exactly were those videos supposed to prove?

well seeing as how this thread is about proving or disproving the bible by proving or disproving the flood, then i would say the videos are to prove that the flood happen?

do i win a prize?

reply to post by miriam0566


mmmmm, beauty AND brains

I love those qualities in a girl....

reply to post by Boondock78


The truth is that even if money was spent on salvaging remnants of the ark people would still refuse to believe and come to know God.
There is more to prove Gods existence than the remains of old wood!!
it would be INTERESTING to find the ark but time and money could be spent better

Hi all,

Originally posted by uberarcanist
Maybe there were some minor changes here and there, but nothing earthshattering. I mean I keep hearing this charge thrown around on bulletin boards, I keep asking for proof of major editing, I keep not getting it.
But there may well be a first time for it...

Major changes to the NT have been posted here before, and can be found easily if you bother to actually look.

Here are some examples :


Mark 16:9-20
The Resurrection Appearances

Most of the earliest witnesses have G.Mark ending at 16:8 - with the empty tomb scene, but no resurrection appearances etc.
Intriguingly, an empty tomb scene was not unknown in other 1st century dramatic writings - e.g. Chariton's novel Chareas and Callirhoe included an empty tomb scene as the climax.

G.Mark ends at 16:8 in the very important early MSS Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, and also in others such as : Latin Codex Bobiensis, the Sinaitic Syriac manuscript, and the two oldest Georgian translations and many Armenian manuscripts.

In later versions however, there are several DIFFERENT endings to G.Mark after 16:8 -
* the longer ending (16:9-20 in many Bibles)
* the shorter ending (also found in some study bibles)
* another minor variant of a few verses

In other words -
there are at least FOUR different ways that G.Mark ends.

(Many modern Bibles now indicate this with brackets or a marginal note - go check yours.)

Origen and Clement of Alexandria (early 3rd C.) and Victor of Antioch quote and discuss G.Mark WITHOUT mentioning the appendix. Eusebius (early 4th C.) mentions that most MSS do not have the appendix. Jerome also specifically notes the passage can not be found in most Greek MSS of his time (4th C.) This means Eusebius and Jerome KNEW of the appendix, but noted that it was NOT part of the Bible at that time.

Thus, this is clear and present evidence that the post-resurrection stories were NOT original, but added later, around the 4th-5th century or so.

This helps to explain why the stories in G.Luke and G.Matthew and G.John are so wildly different - they did not have G.Mark to follow, so each made-up a different story. (Scholars agree G.Luke and G.Matt were largely copied from G.Mark.)

The events on Easter Sunday, as described in the four Gospels can NOT be reconciled. It is NOT possible to include all the events from all four Gospels in a coherent sequence - go try it. Not one person has ever succeeded.


Luke 3:22
The words of God at the Baptism

Early MSS and quotes have the same as the Psalm :
"...and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou are my son, this day have I begotten thee"

But later versions have changed it to :
"...and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved son; in thee I am well pleased"

Here we see Christian scribes have CHANGED the very words of God, or the alleged words of God. And we know the reason - it supports the view called Adoptionism - later called a heresy.

In other words, Christian writers had no compunction about changing the supposed words of God himself, at a crucial time in the story. Clearly this does not represent anything real or historical.



1 John 5:7
The Trinity

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. "

This passage is not found in ANY early Greek MSS, and was therefore not included in the original Textus Receptus of Erasmus in the 16th Century.
Erasmus said "I will not include the Comma unless I see a Greek MSS which includes it".
Sure enough, a newly written Greek MSS suddenly "appeared" with this passage, so Erasmus ADDED it to the 2nd edition - how dishonest and errant can you get !


Matthew 6:13
The Lord's Prayer

Early and important MSS (Aleph, B, D, Z, 205, 547) as well as some fathers (Tertullian, Origen, and Cyprian) have :
"And lead us not into temptation, But deliver us from evil"

Other MSS have :
"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen"

And a few MSS have another version :
"And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, of the father, the son, and the holy spirit for ever. Amen"

A few MSS exclude the words "the power" or "the glory" or "the kingdom".

The Lord's Prayer is one of the more variant parts of the NT.

Now,
this prayer was supposedly taught by Jesus himself.
But
early Christians could not agree what the prayer said !



Mark 1:1
Jesus Christ [Son of God]

Early MSS do not have "son of God".


John 9:35
Son of Man/God

Early MSS have :
"Jesus heard that they had cast him out, and having found him he said, Do you believe in the Son of man?"

Later versions have :
"Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?"



Acts 8:37
JC is the Son of God

"And Phillip said, if thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God"

This passage is missing from all the early MSS.

In other words, the MSS show a consistent pattern of "Son of Man" being changed into "Son of God".




Mark 1:2
As written in [Isaiah]

The early MSS have :
"As it is written in Isaiah the prophet..."

But most later versions have :
"As it is written in the prophets..."

Probably because the quote is NOT really from Isaiah (its composited from Isaiah, Malachai, and Exodus) - the eariest MSS were wrong, so later versions fixed this error by using just "prophets".

Here we see later scribes fixing up an obvious earlier mistake.



Continued...


Iasion

...continued.


Colossians 1:14
Redemption by blood


All early MSS have the shorter :
"in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins"

But later copies have added "through his blood" :
"In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins"

This is an important proof-text for the doctrine of redemption by Chist's blood - but its a later addition.



So what does this show ?

1. The NT was often changed during its history.

2. The changes included some of the most important parts of Christian doctrine :
* the resurrection
* the alleged words of GOD at the Jordan!
* the Lord's Prayer
* the Trinity
etc.

3. The reason the NT was changed was often arguments over doctrine - i.e. different Christian sects fiddled the books to support their sect.


In short -
The NT is one of the most contradictory, edited and errant books you could find.


Iasion

Great post.

A subject i really struggle with. While typing my King James Bible is next to me on the desk.

No matter how much i try i cant believe its contents, although i really want too.

Not one shred of evidence exists, not one. And please dont say its faith.

Wheres the Ark.
Wheres the tablets from Moses.
Wheres the Cross, nails etc..
Where the spear.
Wheres the....
Wheres the....

Get the picture?

Please, a believer, lets have just one little piece of physical evidence to prove any of this existed.

Tis pants, in my opinion of course.

I'm certainly no expert on this topic, but one thing about the bible does occur to me. Isn't there something in there about 2000 years until the end of days? Let's see now....what year is it again... Oh, right it's 2008!

What happened to the four horsemen? Did they stop off a drink and forget to destroy us all?

But again, I'm probably the last person that would know anything about this sort of stuff. Personally, I find the idea of most religions (but not all) rather offensive. It reminds me of a family guy episode where Brian said to Peter's father, "Believe what I tell you or I'll hurt you. How very christen of you. "

FWIW

Boondock , the OP, was BANNED in APRIL-08



[edit on 15-7-2008 by toasted]

Originally posted by jehova620


Please, a believer, lets have just one little piece of physical evidence to prove any of this existed.

Tis pants, in my opinion of course.

chariot parts found in the red sea?

www.wnd.com...

Originally posted by Promecus
I'm certainly no expert on this topic, but one thing about the bible does occur to me. Isn't there something in there about 2000 years until the end of days? Let's see now....what year is it again... Oh, right it's 2008!

ummm no, regarding god's day the bible says noone knows when it is except for the father

What happened to the four horsemen? Did they stop off a drink and forget to destroy us all?

actually they are riding now.

white horse is jesus conquering

red horse is war. the 20th century has seen quite a few wars including 2 world wars. i think there is a statistic that the 20th century has experienced 40 days of peace. 21st century has started any better.

pale horse of famine. famine because of lack of crops or famine because of high prices, take you pick. both happen quite a bit now.

pestilence followed by death. spanish influenza, aids, cancer. all these and more are epidemics ravaging the population like never before.

reply to post by jehova620


maybe you'll find something here;

it takes intense study and well informed honest teachers and a real desire to understand.

I'd like to recommend Pastor Melissa Scott and Pastor Arnold Murray for teachers of The Word. Scott likes to examine scripture to see if the translators did a good enough job of conveying that which was originally in hebrew or greek into english and also look to how it was translated into other languages. But she may be a bit deep for you right off the bat. Pastor Murray does an excellent job of teaching The Word, by a chapter by chapter and verse by verse examination of The Bible.

www.pastormelissascott.com...

www.shepherdschapel.com...

And FWIW, The Ark was found, a few times, but you'll have to understand, that there is just as much effort to suppress that info as there is desire to inform everyone.

realityzone.com...

www.pbase.com...

video.google.com...

video.google.com...

I heard, that there is a special blessing given to those who read Revelation. It may not be immediately evident upon reading it, but as time goes on and your sincere desire remains to understand then I think that things will unfold for you.

anchorstone.com...

www.anchorstone.com...

www.anchorstone.com...

www.anchorstone.com...

www.adiyamanli.org...

on the flood and fossils;

video.google.com...#

video.google.com...#

==========

parting of red sea;

users.netconnect.com.au...




[edit on 16-7-2008 by toasted]

Creation, or the act of creation does not disprove evolution...
the theory of evolution does not disprove creationism...

Creation, or the act of creation does not make the creator a GOD....
the holy scriptures (to me) are either

a) a well designed fraud that places each half of the world(west/east)
against each other in order to divide and Conquer
and holds them with a belief system that keeps them in their control.

b)its a test.... for each person ....thats asks one question..
Will you be led blindly like a sheep?

if you live by and believe the full bible story,
then you can answer Yes

If you have risen to the awareness level to realize its a scam,
then you can answer NO

having said that, I also believe that the holy scriptures contain
Valuable information about the nature of our universe and reality.

if it is a test.... over all, WE HAVE FAILED

sorry I forgot to add...
the Ron Wyatt Guy comes off like a bad biblical comic book
character .

i don`t believe for a minute that this TOTALLY evangelical religious guy
with no formal archaeological training has found ALL the proof of so many biblical claims(and then some).... ya right.....

he`s like a super christian...even Indiana didn`t score like this guy...lol

Originally posted by Maya432
the holy scriptures (to me) are either

a) a well designed fraud that places each half of the world(west/east)
against each other in order to divide and Conquer
and holds them with a belief system that keeps them in their control.

b)its a test.... for each person ....thats asks one question..
Will you be led blindly like a sheep?

or c) its the word of god revealing his purpose

what i dont understand is how is option c any less plausible?