Clinton? Obama? or Edwards? Who Will It Be?

reply to post by grover


Grover Dr. Rice is the most ineffectual Sec. of State I have witnessed in my lifetime. Can anyone tell me anything she has actually accomplished?

She got rid of Colin Powell. Colin did 2 things wrong: 1) he was smart and 2) he did his own thinking. I have not done so, but every college and u. keeps the PhD dissertations on file. There is an index on the internet but I forgot how to get there. If you have time and the inclination, go to your own college library and see if you cannot obtain a copy of her PhD to give you a hint what she wrote to get the ‘doctor’ designation. Her list of books is suspect, as 4 of the 5 were co-authored, which is a way non-writers get to claim to have written books for prestigious appointments. She is a product of Affirmative Action. So was Colin Powell, so don't blame AA.

She is a light-weight and raises no ripples in the top circles of Bush43 and VP Cheney. Hmm? The circle grows smaller!

Grover The unpleasant truth of the matter is that Iraq as it stands right now is wholly our own making. This whole thing was bungled right from the very beginning and nothing, our staying or our leaving is going to make it any better... as it stands right now it is a matter for no one but the Iraqi people to work out and the quicker we get out of the way the better.

I also have asked how will our staying longer will make it better? This is the very same litany we got in Vietnam. It is the fall-back position. When all reasoin and logic fail, we get this. It's hard to impossible to refute a prediction. We were promised a bloodbath in Vietham if we left precipitously, but when we did, there was NO bloodbath. A couple thousand American lackeys were prosecuted as War Criminals and shot but for the overwhelming majority of South Vietnamese, it was 1 or 2 years in a Rehabilitation Camp doing public work in the AM and listening to indoctrination in the PM.

There is a very nice Vietnamese man who busses tables at a restaurant I like, “The Loop.” I like the Cajun fried Groper sandwich. He is 68 and in good health and of cheerful, extroverted demeanor. He has been here 17 years but only has a Green card. He has 8 children, 1 in CA, 1 here in FL and 6 in Vietnam. He was a lieutenant in the ARVN. Army of the Republic of Vietnam. He claims to have been wounded 5 times. He also claims to have been a POW for 6 years. Like John McCain. IF the NVA - North Vietnam Army - was so horrendous, how come he (and McCain) survived six years in captivity? Out of 600+ poisoners in Hanoi Hilton, all but about 30 came out alive. That’s better than Angola or Attica!

I said a lot to show that when foreigners leave, the locals can get along.

[edit on 9/17/2007 by donwhite]

General Powell is one of the few Republicans in this administration that I have any respect for. Unfortunately he is also a team player to the point of letting himself get used in a very unseemly matter of having to lie for them in their case for war before the UN.

If it had been me, or anyone else, we would be spilling the beans on this den of thieves now when and wherever we got the chance but not Powell. Even now he is guarded and discreet in his criticisms.

reply to post by grover


Grover General Powell is one of the few Republicans in this administration that I have any respect for. Unfortunately he is also a team player to the point of letting himself get used in a very unseemly matter of having to lie for them in their case for war before the UN.

Because I have ALWAYS known there were NO WMDs in Iraq, I said as I watched Powell make his famous speech, that Bush43 had taken him to the woodshed the night before. I have called it the “woodshed” speech. I said that Bush43 gave Colin his marching orders and for whatever reason, Powell dutifully followed orders.

Colin has since apologized to the American people for his role in that calculated purposeful misrepresentation by the White House. Bush43. Unfortunately for America, an honest man who admits a mistake cannot be president. Hmm?

Grover If it had been me, or anyone else, we would be spilling the beans on this den of thieves now when and wherever we got the chance but not Powell. Even now he is guarded and discreet in his criticisms.

Well Grover, we caught Scooter Liddy serendipitously. A sycophant “made man” of VP Cheney, Bush43 has removed the prosecutors best weapon BEFORE Scooter could give up VP Cheney and Bush43! And the public and Congress acted like little puppy dogs. Just barely a whimper. What did Ben Franklin say, “We have given you a republic, if you can keep it.”

[edit on 9/17/2007 by donwhite]

In the winter and spring of 03 the truth was out there if people wanted to find it. On the back pages and in small one paragraph news articles and the like were the stories contradicting the front pages, and you saw them in almost every paper. Also given the history between the first gulf war and 2003, if anyone seriously thought about it, it simply did not add up that Saddam was the threat he was made out to be. Consequently I didn't buy it either and I was one of those handful of souls who stood publicly (and on crutches at the time from knee surgery) in protest and was equally publicly insulted, cursed at and egged for exercising my rights.

It was "interesting" to watch the video tape of the weekend Hillary blitz. I'm pretty sure she trained hard for that marathon session. It goes to show you that she ants the job more than her competition. In some ways, its a little scary to see my 2004 prediction still on track. I've said it before and I will say it again. I don't know who is giving Obama advice, but they need to be fired.

reply to post by Justin Oldham


Justin Oldham It was "interesting" to watch the video tape of the weekend Hillary blitz. It goes to show you that she wants the job more than her competition. I've said it before and I will say it again. I don't know who is giving Obama advice, but they need to be fired.

Look, J/O, Obama gave it his BEST shot on health care AFTER he had given it his BEST shot on Iraq. Hillary’s numbers keep rising, his keep falling. What’s he to do?

At first I thought Obama was following a script. Then he got sort of dirty and his wife jumped in. So I re-thought, maybe he really thinks he CAN win the big apple? Then you see him now, more like a puppy-dog, and I’m back to thinking he is scripted. As is his wife, and as is Edward’s wife. Sort of like the old Bud Abbot slapping Lou Costello. It relieves the tension. It give the anti Hillary crowd something to keep them on the Democratic leash. In the end most of them will vote Dem. Everybody knows Abbot is smarter than Costello. For your own self interest you vote smart, not cute.

This thing is TOO smooth, too good a show to watch to think the top 3 candidates just woke up one morning and it all happened. Not on your life! The best shot at the presidency since 2000. Hillary’s LAST shot. So, you put Obama in at the Number 2 post, and you promise Edwards the AG slot. So you’ve got yourself a team!

Bill Richardson gets Interior or the UN slot, his choice. Joe Biden goes into the State Department. Maybe the Undersecretary to a younger man or woman. CT’s Senator Dodd to go into the Labor Department to try to resuscitate it after 8 years of strangulation under Senator McConnell’s wife, Ms Chao.

Kucinich gets the Baghdad ambassadorship with instructions to fix it so we can get home before Christmas, 2009. We’ll leave 45,000 troops behind in border enclaves near Iran and Syria. Mkke Gravel gets the Beijing post. Robert Ruben comes back to Treasury to work his old magic. As I see it, it’s done and done.

[edit on 9/24/2007 by donwhite]

I've got to stand on my original assertion. Obama is acting like a candidate who wants nothing more than the Vice Presidency. That's the vibe I got from him from the start. He simply doesn't want it as much as she does.

I think Don may be on to something with his schedule of appointments. I think that's why so many of the tier two candidates are hanging on. they're bucking for a cabinet post.

reply to post by Justin Oldham


Hillary throws a clinker into the presidential primary race. Yes, women have run before. African American Shirley Chisolm and Asian American Patsy Mnk, both Congresswomen, to name but two, but none was really taken as a serious challenger to the top spot. Each was making a political statement and representing her constituency more that dreaming of making 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue her next address. Geraldine Ferraro alone made it as far as the No. 2 spot in 1984. Everyone agrees she broke the ice!

Note: Some argue the Mondale/Ferraro ticket was a throwaway, but even if so, it was still an important FIRST that either of the 2 major parties would go so far as to ADD a woman to the ticket. Thanks, Walter and Jerry.

2007 sees a woman with 40 years of political background not to speak of her as an honors student in Wellesley College which saw her as the first student to speak at the graduation exercises. That’s de rigeur today.

She has spent the last six years in the Senate. As junior senator from New York, she has not accrued the seniority needed to rise to the committee chairmanship posts that would give her a national forum so her work has been more of the quiet and behind the scenes kind.

One vote stands out. Her approving vote in 2001 to allow America to take all necessary action to ferret out and bring to justice the perpetrators of the Nine Eleven Event. That should have been a GOLD vote but for the stumbling, bumbling and fumbling execution led by Bush43, VP Cheney, Herr Oberfuhrer Rumsfeld and the Birmingham Songbird, Condo Rice. America’s own Gang of Four.

Who could have guessed they were loud mouth amateurs masquerading in a professional’s mold? But you will have to agree that even if she has not fully explained away the vote, she has throughly defused the backlash others had hoped to unleash on her.

Now, J/O, in response to your astute observations on Obama, let’s reflect on the rough and tumble times a week or so ago when the wife of Barack joined the wife of Edwards to bring up subjects thought too touchy for the REAL candidates. Ganging up! Hiding behind the petty coat. Shrewdly and wisely I think, Bill kept his counsel. Let the ladies slug it out. Bill knew what Elizabeth knew but Michelle was yet to learn, "don’t come to the fight without your gloves!"

As Hillary has (easily I think) shot down broadsides from Rudy and others not in the Dems race, she handled the two otherwise ‘gentle ladies’ with aplomb. Somewhat reminiscent of a priest to the confessor after absolution she told them, “Go and sin no more.”

I like Hillary’s current hair-do.

[edit on 9/25/2007 by donwhite]

To quote myself from another thread:

At least, like or dislike them Ford and Carter were two decent men, and you could live with either choice... ...Since then we have been swapping back and forth between two families.

I AM FRICKING SICK AND TIRED OF BUSHES AND CLINTON'S!!!! GIVE ME A REAL CHOICE DAMNIT!!!!

Doesn't anybody else understand that the concentration of political power into the hands of a couple of political families bodes extremely ill for this country?

If Hillary wins.... whats next? A run by Jeb Bush.... and after that... Chelsie?

Mark my word, and I am saying this as a citizen, not as a liberal or a Democrat... this bouncing back and forth between these 2 families is a disaster for this country.

I stand by this... to continue alternating between these two power bases will be the end of our system of government as we know it. Just as surely as the civil wars of the late Roman republic, centered around a couple of powerful families, ended that system.



[edit on 25-9-2007 by grover]

posted by grover
To quote myself on another thread:
At least, like or dislike them Ford and Carter were two decent men, and you could live with either choice... ...Since then we have been swapping back and forth between two families.

Do you doubt that Robert Kennedy would have been elected in 1968 but for Sirhan Sirhan? (Who I and the Kennedys think ought to be paroled). Do you doubt that undoing Chappaquadic would have given Ted Kennedy a real chance at the presidency in 1972?

After Iraq, I believe the Bush dynasty is done for. James Earl would have a hard time running for a third term in Florida. Neil lies low, drawing his generous consultants fee from the PRC. Marvin is in some nefarious scheme you can be sure. The Bush brothers don’t work, they scheme and connive!

If Hillary wins.... what’s next? A run by Jeb Bush.... and after that... Chelsea? Mark my word, and I am saying this as a citizen, not as a liberal or a Democrat... this bouncing back and forth between these 2 families is a disaster for this country.

C F R!

How many times have I asked complainers and grippers “How much money did you send your congressman or president today?” There are NO R&Fs posting here or on any board. They are too busy making - er, taking - your money and mine. AND sending money to THEIR congress and president, of whatever stripe.

UNTIL we have genuine CFR - Campaign Finance Reform - which means this and only this, NO private money is allowed in public elections. Yes, we’ll need run-off primaries and run-off general elections. Yes, we’ll have to pay some dummies to electioneer, but in the end, it will be the cheapest thing we ever did for ourselves. 45,000 lobbyists registered in W-DC.

ARE we crazy? What the #%@!& are we doing letting there even to be 45,000 lobbyists? What would I do? Hmm. That’s enough to run a re-opened Auschwitz about 3 days.

But it is CFR. We will not get back our government until we have it. The public must pay 100% of the cost of public elections. There ani't no free ride.

[edit on 9/25/2007 by donwhite]

As for Robert Kennedy.... the same holds true.... it does not bode well for this country to have so much power centered around one or two political families... I really don't care if they are liberal Democrats or conservative Republicans.... the same holds true.

I personally refuse to give money to political candidates or parties or groups. I don't try to encourage them.

I am in full favor of public financing of political campaigns from dog catcher to president.

reply to post by grover


Networking. That is the BEST way to get ahead in a crowded and competitive society. It’s always been that way. I point to the story of Joseph and the coat of many colors as an early example how networking saved a family and a nation in the making. While I place absolutely no credence in conspiracy theories around the Skull and Bones group at Yale - I think it’s a bunch of drunk scions of the rich and famous - but I also think they “stick” together stink on **** and help one another. But that is true of every such socially exclusive club. That is why they have such clubs. They - the rich and famous - are not dumb. And that's why I'd tax them heavily for the privielge of privielge.

Just being a member of an exclusive group is one very reliable form of vetting, i.e., making sure they are ‘safe’ for jobs or positions of importance. It gives them a leg up. But then, who says members of any group are not more likely than not to give favorable consideration to a fellow member who's applying for a job or a loan or a special privilege.

When you stress individualism over group commitments, you are likely to get this result. That is why I oppose any measure likely to increase individualism at the expense of the group. I want to see HIGHER tax rates. And etc.

Let’s consciously work to keep people closer together. I hate gated communities. I hate sky boxes. Living on a planet with 6.3 billion people - going to 8 - that can support only 2 billion people in the long run, there is little room for individualism. Globalization will ultimately be one of our lesser problems.

Just look at sub-Saharan Africa. Over 1 billion people lack DEPENDABLE supplies of clean water, then pan away to Las Vegas at night! This ain’t gonna work much longer. We’ve got to get a grip on ourselves.

[edit on 9/25/2007 by donwhite]

reply to post by donwhite



Oh I agree with you Don... you are preaching to the choir as it were. I am just objecting as vigorously as I can to the rise of political mafia in this country be they Bush family or Clinton Family or Kennedy family. I think it spells danger for our nation.

reply to post by donwhite


I am neither Repudlickin or Democrap, so I see it this way: Ronald Reagan had it right politically with his 13th commandment "Thou shalt not criticize nor destroy another Republican to get elected--You may have to vote for them." (paraphrased) Mrs. Clinton and closet muslim Obama will so damage each other in the primaries neither will be electible. The Dems will lose in '08 because they will still be trying to beat Bush. You Dems forked up overdone losers in 2000 and '04-so grow up and get over it. You lost. Mrs. Clinton will never be able to shake being Willy's old lady-so she's toast if she gets to the general election.

reply to post by Ankil


Was that supposed to be an intelligent comment?

posted by Ankil
The Dems will lose in '08 because they will still be trying to beat Bush. You Dems forked up overdone losers in 2000 and '04-so grow up and get over it. You lost. Mrs. Clinton will never be able to shake being Willy's old lady-so she's toast if she gets to the general election.

You may be on target, Mr A. J/O in describing Hillary’s recent campaign swing through Iowa characterized it as a “BLITZ.” I’m not sure if he was referring to the German bombing of London, The Blitz, which failed, or the German’s earlier rout through Poland followed by a equally fast race across France, the “Blitzkrieg” both of which were remarkably successful. I’m hoping J/O saw her tour more like the Poland/France escapade and not like the London effort.

Do you have any opinion who the GOP might "lay hands on" in St. Paul? You may have seen my post above where I guessed a Rudy plus Mit ticket. Some people don’t like Romney’s religion but I don’t think that will be an issue. Especially Rudy. If he passes the religious test, Mit is a shew-in. Romney could be Rudy’s 'Ace in the Hole' what with him having a billion dollars to play with. Up till now I rate Rudy as running a soft campaign, using the same old worn-out cliches so long popular in the GOP, instead of talking issues. What say you?

[edit on 9/25/2007 by donwhite]

Being a Libertarian (don't know if we have a prayer). I believe the Democrats will self destruct again. Clinton and Obama will so damage each other in the primaries (she will do anything to get the nomination) that neither will be viable in the general election. Whoever is nominated will represent a party too busy trying to still redo the 2000 debacle rather than looking forward. If Mrs. Clinton is the candidate she will never shake being Bill's wife.

reply to post by Ankil


The main problem I see with Libertarians is their reluctance to accept even a minimally sized government essential to deal with 300,000,000 people spread over 3,700,000 square miles and 6 time zones. AND with “interests” all around the world. That is why I somewhat disrespectfully liken Libertarians to Anarchists in drag.

We have a broken Army and Marine Corps in Iraq. 450,000 men and women in the Army and 120,000 in the MC. We’re trying to keep either 130,000 or 165,000 there and we cannot do it. We need at least TWO times as many Army and MC if we plan any more Iraqs soon. Apparently the Navy and Air Force are adequately staffed and for sure neither undergoes the kind of 24/7 stress faced by the Army and MC.

[edit on 9/25/2007 by donwhite]

Clinton? Obama? Edwards? Who will it be?

Well our very own Commander-in-Chief, the leader of the free world, "the decider", has determined that it will be Mrs. Bill Clinton!

www.foxnews.com...

President Bush is predicting that Hillary Clinton will win the 2008 Democratic presidential primary

This should end any more speculation about this topic. Our Commander-in-Chief has spoken!

It is up to all of you Democrats, to follow Bush's wishes and make sure this happens!

reply to post by Ankil


That is what I am thinking will happen... and so tie up the convention that it will give a dark horse candidate like Gore a chance to run off with the nomination. God I hope so.