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Clinton? Obama? or Edwards? Who Will It Be?

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posted on Apr, 24 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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Hey, folks. Just stopping in for a brief moment. I see that Hillary has scored major bank. It's looking like she can pay her dampaign debts and move on to Indiana. Assuming tha she wins Indiana and loses South Carolina, we are gonna see some major mud go flying! Yuck.




posted on Apr, 24 2008 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


Thanks for the update on that Justin.. I happen to catch that on the news while I was at work.. Seems that Hillary pulled that out in pen state.
Hillary was like 54% and Obama was at like 48%. Or something close to that.

So I guess we will wait and see where the next state takes us..
I will be keeping an eye on this thread.. As I do enjoy the debate here, and very much take everything said in here into consideration.




posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by zysin5
I will be keeping an eye on this thread.. As I do enjoy the debate here, and very much take everything said in here into consideration.


We don't have to agree. It's true. We really don't...but...we do have an obligation as good citizens to actually have this discussion. I can't know what you're thinking if you don't ell me. Unless I can read minds (official story is that I can't), I won't know what you're thinking...unless...you tell me.

This thread has been viewed more than 19,000 times. That's 19,000 people who read but never posted. How many minds were changed? We don't know. We have a lot of flags on this thread, so we can assume that somebody got something out of the debate.

If I do nothing else at all on ATS, I'd like to keep on sparking these talks, which you will NOT see in the mainstream media.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 06:13 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


K this is where I am going with this. And the reasons why I know Hillary is going to win this.
Not only has she gotten the green light from Builderburgs, and other private groups, but this is her true mind set here.
I will post it in a video on her thoughts of Iran.
She will Obliterate Iran!


This seems to go hand and hand with the current agenda.
She is much more of a War monger than Daddy Mccain, or Obama put together!

And this video.. She clearly knows she was going to win Pen state.
Yep says smuggly that its anyones game.. Clearly Bullhonkey, She knew that Pen state was going to be a big win, and its her hidden occult knowledge of this that stands in our way.

She belives shes going to win.. She belives that her task..
Well she was given her orders from her masters.. She won.. Whats next now? Is there any stopping her?
We might feel there might be some way to beat her.. But reality sets in and says no.. Its rigged.. the table is tilted.

If you all notice on the little tab under her name it says.
" I have to Win"
Not I might win, or I could win.. I HAVE TO WIN.
Thats an occult message right there infront of our faces. Bluntly claiming, and saying.. She has to Win!

She belives she is in a better postion.. Why is that? Because she has been put into that postion by Men?
She seems to belive alot of things that seem to come to be reality.
She knows, I can see it in her eyes.

She says that you can not get into the white house without winning a big state like Pen. She knows she has it in the bag.. I just really have this feeling inside of me now after watching these videos.

This woman has a clear path in front of her to take us into more war.
More lies, and more hidden dealings within hidden rooms.

I know Clintons have worked for the Bush Empire since the days of Bill Clinton.

Obama wouldnt be the first black president, because most Americans feel that Bill Clinton was the first Black President. Be it a joke or not, I think most people honestly feel Bill C, while being a white man, was somehow a black man in the office on his terms.. Ive heard that saying over and over in the past.

Hence Hillary is their war dog.. For some time I had a hunch it was Mccain that was going to be the War time pick..
But from further research, Ive found that Hillary will do all she can to Totally Obliterate Them! And them meaning anyone who stands in the way of the USA.
She is talking about nukes here folks. She wants to drop the bomb on these people, and when she gets into office.. There will be an attack! And this attack will be another false flag to get everyone to agree to nuke them!
These nukes will ruin many lives, and kill millions of innocent women and children, animals, and plant life.
Did we learn nothing from our first bombs we Dropped on Japan?

I think this woman already knows in her heart shes going to win this.
And here in the past my mind went back and forth a little bit, But today I am steadfast on knowing in my heart Hillary is the next monster in office.

She will drop nukes, and keep up the work of the profit of War.
Until they are all dead! Where does that statement lead others to think?

That this woman, who holds life within her own body, and can give life, yet has no remorse about dropping nukes on other life..
What gives? She sounds like a typical Man..
Woman are suppose to have a level of empathy..
Her empathy is typical of these Elites who want more money out of War.
She knows that both sides are funed by the same people, And will try to tell us differently, because most Americans are still fast asleep, and most Americans are just waiting for a reason to nuke some one..
I hear it over and over every day from ignorant fools at work, and other places.. Just turn it into a parking lot!!!
I hear it all to often and it scares the heck out of me..

So thats where I am comming from Justin.. Thanks for the nudge to get it out of me..

And even this information is out in mainstream media..
Its up to people like us to pick up the puzzle pieces and fit it all together.
I thank you for giving me a chance to speak my mind.

[edit on 25-4-2008 by zysin5]



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 02:41 PM
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It's not going to surprise me if Mrs. Clinton manages to sway the super delegates in to backing her. Future historians will look back on the Dem's super delegate system and declare it to be a disaster. Some may say that they fooled themselves in to thinking that their top brass knew better than the rank and file. Others may say that they jsut didn't think it through.

The specific individuals who had the nerve to declare that a State's votes did not count in a primary election will go down in political history with a lot of very unknind footnotes.

If Hillary Clinton does manage a "palace coupe," you really will see riots Denver...and Chicago...and...and...and I won't blame them.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by zysin5
 



I think this woman [Hillary] already knows in her heart she’s going to win this. And here in the past my mind went back and forth a little bit, But today I am steadfast on knowing in my heart Hillary is the next monster in office. She will drop nukes, and keep up the work of the profit of War. Until they are all dead! Where does that statement lead others to think? That this woman, yet has no remorse about dropping nukes on other life . . What gives? She sounds like a typical Man . .


You’ve been reading the quatrains of Michel de Nostredame (1503-1556) known to us as Nostradamus again? Love him or hate him, his book Les Propheties, the first edition of which appeared in 1555 and has seldom been out of print afterwards. This version contains one unrhymed and 941 rhymed quatrains. But remember this, you can only “make sense” out of his writings AFTER the fact. No one has ever predicted anything from his writings BEFORE it happened. Because of that, I call him a fake. See
en.wikipedia.org...

Or perhaps Mr Z5, you have been reading this man? Sir Martin Rees says the human race has only a 50/50 chance of surviving another century, the UK’s Astronomer Royal, in his book “Our Final Century.” Sir Martin ponders the threats which face humankind during the 21st Century. Recalling the famous "finest hour" speech of June 1940, Sir Winston Churchill spoke chillingly about the threat of the world sinking into "the abyss of a new Dark Age, made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science."
news.bbc.co.uk...

You must take political speech with several grains of salt. As I have posted here, Americans love a good war. For us, a GOOD war is one we are winning. We hate a bad war. A BAD war is one we are losing. War? Simple, win good, lose bad. No one can win in our political scene if they tell the truth. Sad, but that is TRUE. IMO. We like'em tough up here!

All the more so for a woman. She must show she has as much chutzpa as any man overladen with testosterone. I can’t wait to hear her use my preference ‘smithereens’ in place of her ‘obliterate.’ How do you think Lady Margaret Thatcher became known as the “Iron Lady?”



Obama wouldn’t be the first black president, because most Americans feel that Bill Clinton was the first Black President. Be it a joke or not, I think most people honestly feel Bill C, while being a white man, was somehow a black man in the office on his terms .. I’ve heard that saying over and over in the past.


Empathy. Bill’s childhood was no peaches and cream. Maybe his father ran off, his mother drank too much, and he was adopted. Yet, he managed to WIN a scholarship to OXFORD which is done on your own merit and not on your parents status or wealth. Please give him a little credit for that. Bill know how to FEEL the suffering of others. That was no joke. And that is why he is called America’s FIRST black president.



So that’s where I am coming from Justin .. Thanks for the nudge to get it out of me .. And even this information is out in mainstream media .. Its up to people like us to pick up the puzzle pieces and fit it all together. I thank you for giving me a chance to speak my mind.


There is nothing for me to add to those generous remarks that I’m sure J/O will appreciate.

[edit on 4/26/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 04:59 PM
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We are here to discuss and debate wthout killing each other. Honestly, I am humbled each time somebody says that I've inspired them to speak their mind. It's been said by many that freedom is not free. That's true.

We live in dangerous times, when our freedoms are under attack. Too many of us have been misled in to believing that we're somehow a burden to others if we speak up. That's NOT true.

Many people have contributed to this discussion thread. We haven't always agreed on what they other person has said. We've each made a few points, and we each been forced ot concede a few points. Everyone has come away from this with food for thought.

I have no taste for domination. On the basis of character, I do think that Senator Clinton would be a harsh leader, who would bind us in ways that couldn't be undone without first fighting a civil war. Then again, I've got my own criticism for the other candidates, too.

I'm also no fan of dynasties. I would've said the same thing if I had been alive during the Kennedy decade. I did not approve of another Bush in the White House for that reason, and I do not approve of another Clinton now...for that same reason. Service is not prvilidge. They serve us, or we WILL serve them.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 08:47 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 



It's been said by many that freedom is not free. That's true. We live in dangerous times, when our freedoms are under attack. Too many of us have been misled in to believing that we're somehow a burden to others if we speak up. That's NOT true. Many people have contributed to this discussion thread. Everyone has come away from this with food for thought.

I have no taste for domination. On the basis of character, I do think Senator Clinton would be a harsh leader, who would bind us in ways that couldn't be undone without first fighting a civil war.


If the big old world out there is more like a dog fight than a pillow fight, would you send in a pit bull or a poodle? It’s hard to be pleasant when you’re being nasty, but only a few have the heart to do that.

I’m still for Obama but for the reason I believe his candidacy would go far to “heal” the racial divide that I see as America’s albatross. Win or lose. Us Dems take pride in having supported Humphrey and McGovern against Nixon. We are proud of supporting Carter and Mondale against Reagan. We are not ashamed of having supported Dukakis, Gore and Kerry against the Bush Dynasty. We are sorry we lost all those races and we feel the country has suffered for it.



I'm also no fan of dynasties. I would've said the same thing if I had been alive during the Kennedy decade. I did not approve of another Bush in the White House for that reason, and I do not approve of another Clinton now ... for that same reason. Service is not privilege. They serve us, or we WILL serve them.


I can see real differences in the Rich and Famous Bush family from Connecticut and the Clintons who are more like me. Do you think a person of like mind as yours would have opposed Franklin on the grounds he was following on Theodore? Or would 20 years separation make a difference? As in John Quincy Adams.

The Bushes OTOH are ready willing and able to try again. If this one, known as ‘Dumbya’ to his friends, had not mucked up the whole world so badly, his brothers might have made a run a la JFK and RFK. But I’m pretty sure before this is over, Bush will join Hoover as a dirty word in presidential politics.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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First of all I want to thank you Donwhite for making such a great thread and also getting me to think! You have also done a great part in getting my mind working upon this very important issue!



Originally posted by donwhite
You’ve been reading the quatrains of Michel de Nostredame (1503-1556) known to us as Nostradamus again? Love him or hate him, his book Les Propheties, the first edition of which appeared in 1555 and has seldom been out of print afterwards.

Or perhaps Mr Z5, you have been reading this man? Sir Martin Rees says the human race has only a 50/50 chance of surviving another century, the UK’s Astronomer Royal, in his book “Our Final Century.”


I was just going by my own feelings and takes. I have not gotten my hands on those books, but in the way I speak I guess I could have come off a bit preachy, as if I have my own gut feelings, or seem to want to see the furture. I belive in many things, but that would take me far off topic, but to answer you on this point, no I was just going by what I have in my own head, not going off any books. Just some good old fashion brainstorming. Mixed with a little of my own forsight.

Thank you also for clearing up the Black president statement on Bill Clinton. I do have alot of empathy for a guy who can get his place by his own hard work. But that in its self is a whole other story.. But thanks for clearing that up with me.

Also as a woman, Hillary has to show she does have the Moxi to be a president in a mans world.
I guess I would have to ask myself, would I be so different if somehow I was in power?
No because I know that power corupts. And they know they have us by the balls here. So much fear these days, so much hate and anger.

Yet agin, I will take a couple more days to collect some new thoughts, and I will return with a more worthy rebuttle.

Its just I work a very hard job, and work many hours. Ive been to school and earned everything on my own merit aswell. But somehow I do not have much to show for it. In a crooked world, those of us who are true and noble to this life, we end up finishing last..
I dont mind, this is not a contest for me.. As it is for so many human beings that would roll over on their best friend just to get a better place in life.. I could never do that, and thats why I lost.

So in ending I give you my thanks Donwhite! You do a great service to ATS and the world by making such great posts. While we may not agree on some points, I can say I have learned a thing or to about this whole posting deal, and will try my best to offer what I can in my own special way.





If Hillary Clinton does manage a "palace coupe," you really will see riots Denver...and Chicago...and...and...and I won't blame them.


Yes I had heard threw the grape vine that Al Sharpton was saying there would be trouble.
And Rush L. was on air saying he had a dream about riots.
Very strange place this will lead us.

Some say that Rush was doing his part by insighting riots, others say no thats not what he said, he merely said he had a dream about such things.
And others said it was Al sharpton who said there would be riots, when its not what he said..
While even yet others say, well thats what Al Sharpton meant when he said there will be trouble.
Such a big play on words, and jedi mind tricks if you will.

Much like TV, movies, and all entertainment.. When you see guns and killing glorified, and people wonder why 3rd grade kids bring loaded weapons into school. So many fine lines, and games we play with eachother. Its a slippery slope all the way, in every aspect of the game we play here.

Is this what it comes down to? Acting like a bunch of misfit children when someone doesnt get their way?
Or do they realize that they have been had, and the game is rigged, and they are only doing a last ditch effort? As I would agree, how can you blame them for taking matters into their own hands, when the way of going about this has been rigged. I belive they know its a scam, but will be taken apart by the media and others if they come right out and say that. Thus they take matters into their own hands, and ensure riots, with a hidden message within those riots. Prehaps it would serve to wake people up. Yet we all know those who start the riots will be safe in their under ground bunkers trying to hold on to all their material things, while the rest of us suffer threw the hard times.

Very strange world indeed J/O.. I will stay tuned and see how this one turns out.. The hand is closing in, and the hour is getting closer.
The doomdays clock is at 5 mins to midnight. And is expected to click to 4 mins to midnight upon the elections.. So I have heard..

Edit-- spell check on isle 5 please


[edit on 26-4-2008 by zysin5]



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by zysin5
 



Hillary has to show she does have the Moxi to be a president in a mans world. I guess I would have to ask myself, would I be so different if somehow I was in power? No because I know that power corrupts. And they know they have us by the balls here. So much fear these days, so much hate and anger.



John Emerich Edward Dalberg-Acton, 1st Baron Acton, KCVO (1834-1902)

“In 1870 came the great crisis in Roman Catholicism over Pope Pius IX's promulgation of the dogma of papal infallibility. Lord Acton, who was in complete sympathy on this subject with Döllinger, went to Rome in order to throw all his influence against it, but the step he so much dreaded was not to be averted . . in a letter he wrote to Bishop Mandell Creighton, dated April 1887, Acton made his most famous pronouncement:

"I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong. If there is any presumption, it is the other way, against the holders of power, increasing as the power increases. Historic responsibility has to make up for the want of legal responsibility. Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

Foot Note. KCVO. The Royal Victorian Order is an order of chivalry in the United Kingdom and the other Commonwealth realms that was established by Queen Victoria on 21 April 1896. The order includes five classes, in order of seniority:

1. Knight or Dame Grand Cross (GCVO)
2. Knight Commander (KCVO) or Dame Commander (DCVO)
3. Commander (CVO)
4. Lieutenant (LVO)
5. Member (MVO)
en.wikipedia.org...


Lord Acton supported British off and on Prime Minister William Gladstone, a 19th century Liberal which is much like todays Republicans - anti regulatory - against alternating Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli who was a Whig which is closely akin to today’s Democrats - pro regulatory - and is where I would have put myself had I lived back then. Lord Acton also endorsed the Confederate States of America for its advocacy of states rights, but he overlooked the CSA's raison d’etre was to perpetuate SLAVERY under the guise of STATE’S RIGHTS. He and I would have been at opposites on that issue.

Congrat's to you Mr Z5, for hard work and doing it on your own!

[edit on 4/27/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 07:47 AM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 



It's been said by many that freedom is not free. That's true. We live in dangerous times, when our freedoms are under attack. Too many of us have been misled in to believing that we're somehow a burden to others if we speak up. That's NOT true.


I concur that our freedoms are under attack. Where I digress from others is in me not agreeing on what constitutes a threat. Consider Mattel the toy company for a moment. Mattel was early in taking its cash out of the US and putting it into China. But that’s a non issue in the US of A. Moving capital OUT of the country and leaving the unemployed workers behind. Shucks man, that's life! It's a free country!

That Mattel partnered with the PLA - People’s Liberation Army - is overlooked because all foreign capital must do that if you’re going to work in China. it also has the distinct advantage that Chinese workers KNOW that the PLA is watching them. The PLA provides the muscle to put a quick stop to any union organizing tendencies workers might entertain. That is the FREE MARKET at work. But I digress.

So Mattel builds its factory in one of 3 or 4 dozen cities glad to have them. This is their prime contractor. Let’s call them the Fung Chi Company. After the lead paint scandal broke, we learned that the Fung Chi Company was subcontracting out toy parts to another company, we'll call the Mung Chi Company and a couple dozen other sub contractors we’ll leave unnamed. What we may or may not have known - or more likely did not care - is that Mung Chi Company in its turn, sub-sub-contracted with the Dung Chi Company to do the actual painting of toy parts. If Fung is working cheaply, and Mung has to work even cheaper, then Dung has to work for next to nothing.

Mattel may take some pride in knowing that Fung Chi workers are paid 20 Yuan a day - $5.00 - my numbers- but Mattel may not know nor want to know that Mung Chi workers get only 10 Yuan a day. And for sure no one speaks about the guys who actually do the work, the Dung Chi workers who are getting 5 Yuan a day. About $1.25. So Mattel’s CEO can look you in the eye and tell you that the Chinese working for Mattel are paid good wages, Chinese style. He will not tell you that the second or third tier sub-contract employees are paid next to nothing. We call that DENIABILITY.

Now wages are primarily a social issue. Using what may amount to forced (a/k/a slave) labor to make your goods. The Nazis in WW2 set the gold standard for that system. In fact, the Nazis coldly calculated how many calories a day to feed their forced laborers so that they would live only about 6 months. And for the most part, the Nazis succeeded. I do not believe that is the intent of the PRC or the PLA.

The problem we see over here as consumers of those products is QUALITY CONTROL. Quality in this case includes child SAFE materials and especially not to use lead based paint. As you can see from my brief - well, for me - example of Mattel, it is nearly impossible for Mattel to assure the safety of its products.

The United States Government has an agency known as the Consumer Product Safety Commission. During hearings in Congress it was related that the CPSC had but ONE (1) employee working full time on toys. The agency head admitted the agency does not have an up to date fully equipped well staffed laboratory to make its own analysis of toys. Or anything. Lab work is sent out. Taxpayers still pay for it of course, but now some well placed man or woman is able to take a CUT off the government work! Privatization!

Ordinary citizens operate under the mistaken belief that the CPSC protects them and their children. Instead, we have learned there is but an empty shell - a Potimkin village - overwhelmed by 30,000 cargo containers PER DAY arriving at US ports. This did not happen by accident. This is the cold calculated Reagan Revolution at work.

The Republicans have stripped the Food and Drug Administration of adequate staff. The FDA acting Director told Congress 2-3 days ago that his agency does not have the capability to carry out the mandates of the law. Food and Drug. There are more than 2,000 manufacturers outside the US, making the active ingredients used in our medicines here and the FDA admitted they did not know where all of those are located! Those foreign sources are inspected ONE time a year when we can find them. Sweet Jesus.

Did it ever occur to anyone that FEMA was able to handle natural disasters in the US without public notice until 2005? FEMA was created in 1979 by Pres. Carter who merged the emergency relief responsibilities of several Federal agencies, primarily the 1970 Federal Disaster Assistance Administration part of HUD. The FEMA website says it has 2,800 employees. I would aver that it could use 20,000. FEMA is systemically OK, but its is GUTTED of staff in accordance with the Reagan Revolution.

CONCLUSION.
For anti-government Republicans, this is a win-win situation. First, they get to privatize government to put tax money into private hands to perform public functions! Next, when the predictable failures of various understaffed government agencies occur, the Republicans can point to those failures as further evidence that GOVERNMENT PER SE is bad for you! Ordinary people are not aware of the intentional stripping of the agency personnel guarantees it cannot perform its assigned tasks.

More understaffing is happening now in the Social Security Administration. ALJs decide worker's claims for disability payments. Administrative Law Judges. In some SSA regions, there is a 2 years delay between filing a claim and its adjudication! This when people are DISABLED. Who do they blame? "Social Security" of course. Muck it up enough and maybe Bush43 can terminate the SS program after all! We do need MORE ALJs. Enough to do the job. Timely. Correctly. Yet another triumph of the Reagan Revolution.

[edit on 4/27/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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the failures of government that you cite have been committed by Democrats and Republicans alike. I am bothered by the fact that so many politicians have legislated to take jbs out of America. In many repects, they've financed those corporate moves with taxpayer dollars. If you're looking for just one real conspiracy, this would be it.

In their questi for their own power and self-interests, our leaders now risk killing the goose that lays the golden eggs. the sad part is that they seem so very willing to do it.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 07:02 AM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham
If Hillary Clinton does manage a "palace coupe," you really will see riots Denver...and Chicago...and...and...and I won't blame them.


I have a couple of questions .

Since there were no riots in 2000 when Gore lost the election despite winning the popular vote why would there be riots if Hillary steals the show at the Convention ?

There were no riots in 2000 only a Supreme Court case and hilarious late night TV show jokes with my favourite being about aliens landing and asking someone to take them to there leader . Of course that person didn't who to go to .

If Hillary steals the show at the convention like I think she will could we see a Supreme Court once again dealing with the US political process ?



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 08:47 AM
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reply to post by xpert11
 



Since there were no riots in 2000 when Gore lost the election despite winning the popular vote why would there be riots if Hillary steals the show at the Convention?


The year 2000 was an ALL white election. Whites are generally slothful and not prone to the activity needed to make a good riot.

Further, before 2000, the average man thought courts were apolitical, or non-partisan. That has never been the case. Recall from history Roosevelt’s failed “pack the court” effort in 1936. The popular elected Florida Supreme Court was 7 to 0 Democrats. The appointed US Supreme Court was 5 to 4 Republicans. From history, we learned Thomas Jefferson impeached a number of Federalist judges appointed by Washington and Adams. It’s only been the post 1936 era that ill informed commentators have put forth the notion that judges are aloof from politics. HOW in the Holy H*** to you think a man or woman gets to be a Federal judge anyway?

The public thought the Supreme Court would reach the proper decision. Al Gore knew the “jig was up” when the issue was taken away from the Florida Supreme Court by the US Supreme Court. It was payback time in W-DC. If he had been prescient, Gore might have fought harder.



If Hillary steals the show at the convention like I think she will could we see a Supreme Court once again dealing with the US political process?


After the departure of Sandra Day O’Connor any remaining pretense the US Supreme Court is not PACKED with strident GOP types is over. If the Dems ever get 67 votes in the Senate you may see impeachments of the SC again.

J/O is probably thinking that this time the BLACK Americans are deeply invested in the outcome of the nominating process. Our blacks are a deeply repressed minority. I have called RACISM here our albatross. We can’t get over it.

Gated communities so popular up here are the successors to the SUNDOWN TOWNS that I recently read a book about. More than 1,000 towns, almost all NORTH of the Mason-Dixon line, were openly exclusionary of blacks. Hundreds posted signs at each city limit warning blacks not to be in town AFTER dark. Many towns rang bells or blew whistles at 6 PM to advise blacks to leave. If you are alert to the nuances of racism, the code words so often used - unconsciously by many - then you know racism is hidden just the thickness of skin away.

I must have written 50 posts here warning that however good, bad or indifferent Obama was, he could not be elected. He’s black and 100s of 1000s of Americans will not vote for a black. Note that the pollsters are now asking that question and you see about 37% in one poll that said they would not vote for a black on the Dem ticket. Shucks, I have known that ALL my life. And I’m not even considered smart by a lot of people!

OTOH, Obama as a vice president, the public is willing. It is so logical. The public can watch him for 8 years. But I’m afraid the people around Barack got too much of a taste of glory and victory in the 11 straight wins that it will be hard for them to step down off the cloud and face reality squarely. That’s what J/O fears in Denver. IMO.

[edit on 4/28/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 06:29 PM
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Fundamentally, I don't disagree with anything Don just said. Black Americans have a lot to gripe about. As distant as we are from the days of slavery, they are not yet a sufficiently distant memory. Old prejudices in any country die hard.

I've been poor. I've had a taste of that life, and the politics that go with it. I get their point. If Obama loses, many with nothing to lose will feel like its the right thing to do...to riot.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 12:31 AM
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Well I am not going to argue with Don and Justin on this one because they know more about the US then I do for obvious reasons . Civil unrest at the democratic convention isnt a first if I have my facts straight . In 1964 or 68 Vietnam War protesters overshadowed the democratic convention . Returning to the current day or rather near future over zealous law enforcement could well be what sparks the powered keg which in turn causes peaceful protest to become riots.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 12:48 AM
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I want Obama to win. He seems the best out of all of them.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 01:09 PM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Fundamentally, I don't disagree with anything Don just said. Black Americans have a lot to gripe about. As distant as we are from the days of slavery, they are not yet a sufficiently distant memory. Old prejudices in any country die hard.

I've been poor. I've had a taste of that life, and the politics that go with it. I get their point. If Obama loses, many with nothing to lose will feel like its the right thing to do...to riot.


It's gratifying to see that you finally agree with the riot prediction I made here several months ago. Lots of surprises are ahead, I'm sure.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 04:42 PM
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As I write this, Senator Obama has vociferously distanced himself to Jerimiah Wright. He didn't swear, but he did use strong language in a press conference today. that 'denial' could certainly come back to haunt him if he loses to John McCain.

Avenger: I understand how you feel. It'll be interesting to go back and read this thread from the start, after the next President gets sworn in. We have gotten a lot right, and we've also missed on some of the more important guesses, too.

I'm still not gonna feel bad if Hillary loses.



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 08:07 AM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 



As I write this, Senator Obama has vociferously distanced himself to Jerimiah Wright. He didn't swear, but he did use strong language in a press conference today. that 'denial' could certainly come back to haunt him if he loses to John McCain. Avenger: I understand how you feel. It'll be interesting to go back and read this thread from the start, after the next President gets sworn in. We have gotten a lot right, and we've also missed on some of the more important guesses, too. I'm still not gonna feel bad if Hillary loses.


Reverend Wright
is not the problem in America. America is the problem in America and we (whites) don't like being reminded of it by the likes of Reverend Wright. He’s just another uppity ******.

The problem is:
39 million black Americans live in a different world than their white counterparts even thought they both inhabit the same place!

Like most social problems
fixing it does not involve just one or even two things to do. Lyndon Johnson - the most unlikely - made a humongous effort to address 350 years of adversity when he proposed his Great Society programs. But as you must surely know the effort was strongly opposed from the beginning. All too many programs were put into place but woefully underfunded.

If you want ONE solution
to a many faceted problem, I’ll give you this: neighborhood autonomy for predominantly black neighborhoods.

Autonomous neighborhoods
must be funded directly by the Federal government. States and municipalities are totally incapable of such broad undertakings. And unwilling as well. Autonomy would include all the public services we have come to expect. Residents would do their own policing. White or establishment police carry TOO much baggage to ever be effective in black neighborhoods. Examining courts would be held in the neighborhoods, with black judges whether or not lawyers. You can train people to do elementary things as a examining court.

Health clinics.
Adequately staffed and open to all. Did you know that blacks have DOUBLE the infant mortality rate of whites? Did you know that blacks have about 7-8 years LESS life expectancy that white Americans?

Public education.
For blacks it must be completely separated from the local white establishment system. As Reverend Wright reminded us at his National Press Club speech, schools have indeed been desegregated but they have never been integrated. That is a profound observation and it encapsulates the black dilemma. If we will NOT allow blacks into our society, then lets prepare them to prosper and achieve in their own society. Let’s turn down the heat on the old melting pot notion.

Home ownership.
Almost all blacks live either in ramshackle houses desperately in need of repair and updating, or in poorly maintained privately owned apartment complexes - owned by absentee white landlords - or public housing projects. If home ownership is good for whites, then it just might be good for blacks too? This time, we’d do it BOTTOM UP and not the usual “gravy-train” way of TOP DOWN. The inhabitants of each neighborhood would decide what kind of housing patterns they wanted and then the establishment would construct them.

Purchases by blacks would be FORECLOSURE PROOF! How can that be you ask? The purchaser would consent to have 25% of his or her pay deducted as in Social Security, no matter where he or she works, and that would be applied to his or her housing debt until it was satisfied. If he or she dies before that event, then his or her legal heirs could sign on and remain in the house. As the economy improves, the debt would be paid faster, but as the economy declines, then the homeowner stays put but the government does not get paid until it - the government - figures how to give employment to those people. A TEAM EFFORT!

Solutions are easy. Implementation has proved to be the impossible hurdle. t



I've been poor. I've had a taste of that life, and the politics that go with it. I get their point. If Obama loses, many with nothing to lose will feel like it’s the right thing to do...to riot.


Being white and being poor
is one thing; being black and being poor is quite another thing. Whites can use the bootstrap analogy but blacks have no boots to pull up from or with. It's entirely different. We whites tend to overlook that. A lot.

[edit on 4/30/2008 by donwhite]



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