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Clinton? Obama? or Edwards? Who Will It Be?

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posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 12:49 PM
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I will probably vote for Mitt Romney myself. Hillary may win, but I'll be no part of it, whether my vote counts or not.




posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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None of the above: Bushy will start WW3. He'll call for Martial Law, make himself king of kings and that will be the end of it. The only thing anyones going to be thinking about is where their next meal is coming from!



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 01:26 PM
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reply to post by TheAvenger
 


I like Mitt Romney. But he proved he is no different that any other aspirant for high office. He was blatantly pandering for votes in Michigan. Mitt promised $20 b. of the taxpayers money ostensibly to revitalize the moribund American auto industry, but what the hey! we toss away $2 b. a week in Iraq and no one even asks “what for?” Footnote: That amounted to $59,198.39 per vote garnered by Romney. Cheap in some circles. I hope if he is elected he will have the decency not to gratuitously slam Congressional earmarks. McCain told the truth: "Those jobs are NOT coming back" but that got him a not so close second place finish. Hmm?

Truth and politics, like oil and water, don't mix well. Voters prefer lies and there is no shortage of otherwise good people ready to give'em what they want.

I think everyone’s vote counts even if not cast for the winner. I am satisfied the winners pay close attention to the votes they did NOT get. Remember the 1960 election where it was so close that it was said Nixon lost by less than ONE vote per precinct.

[edit on 1/28/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 02:25 PM
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Originally posted by EntitySeed
None of the above: Bushy will start WW3. He'll call for Martial Law, make himself king of kings and that will be the end of it. The only thing anyones going to be thinking about is where their next meal is coming from!


I've heard several conspiracy theorists say that, but I have serious doubts that will occur. The real power brokers behind the scenes call the plays, in my opinion.



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 04:25 PM
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Bush43 is just hours away from making his final State of the Union address to the nation. He's no longer capable of carrying out any kind of coup. He wouldn eed the cooperaton of Congress, and that's just not going to happen.

As Don said, every vote matters. Even if you cast it fo the person who is not going to win. I encourage everyone to get out and vote in this primary. Send your message!



posted on Jan, 28 2008 @ 08:56 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


Moreover the U.S. taken over in a coupe? This isn't some pitiful banana republic, this is the U.S.A. There's been no coupe here since 1963.....



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 05:09 AM
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George W. Bush had history on his mind when he went in to the House chambers tonight. He sucked up all the good will he could manage before taking the podium. I couldn't escape the feeling that he was talking to future historians rhater than the people in that room with him.

In spite of their many failures, the Republicans have managed to get some things right over the last seven years. Bush's litany of accomplishments was tarnished by the many half-truths he had to use in order to justify many of hte victories he thought he'd earned.

I thought he ws even-handed in the way he praised and condemned. I couldn't help but wonder where his spine has been all these years. This was the speech he needed to make in January of 2003. Forceful, but benevolent.

It's ironic to me that earlier in the day, we watched Senator Kennedy and his kin pass their mantle of social championship to Barack Obama. As they passed the torch to a new generation of Democrats, the Republican candle may have flickered and gone out for the last time. For just a moment, I was ill. I don't enjoy being a predictor of my prefered party's demise. I just don't like seeing this particular prognostication come true.

If there are ghosts in the capitol building, they must have a lot to talk about tonight. Bush's promise of a budget surprlus by 2012 sounded hollow, like he didn't really mean it. I saw frustration in his eyes, like he wanted it to be true more than I did.

Mr. Bush has one more 'real' opportunity to lessen his party's political damnation. He could've used the occasion of this State of the Union address to announce some new policy shift regarding the Iraq war. More troops. Less troops. "Something" that might have made us feel better.

When our 4th of July holiday rolls around, Mr. Bush will be presented with one last chance to announce a real end to the Iraq nightmare. Even if the draw-down is not completed on his watch, he will at least give his fellow Republicans something to go to the polls with in November. The patriotism of the moment wouldn't wash away all of his sins, but he would leave office just a little bit cleaner.

A lot of us are for the war. We saw a lot of good reasons to do it. We've been frustrated by the fact that this President has gone out of his way to find and use every lame and senseless reason he could find, instead of the simple and verifiable truth. The Republican party is left with no choice but to go down in defeat this November.

I wonder if Mr. Bush knew that when he left the House chambers? Because he walked and talked like a man on a false high inspired by the moment, I'm inclined to think he's not sleeping well. It's got to be hard, knowing that you've done your best...and...its just not good enough.

The expansion of Federal power that we've seen over the last seven years is to me, the most real of real conspiracies. It's been said that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Tonight, we saw a road builder with lots of good intentions trying to explain himself to future generations.

When we talk here on ATS, we need to realize that we're also talking to future generations. Five years from now, when somebody googles on any one of the topics we've discussed, they might get an eye full of text that helps them sort things out.

They'll be scared, and caught up in their moment. They might be asking certain questions for the very first time when they find what you and I wrote. Just remember that the next time you reach for a keyboard.

Mr. Bush isn't the only person who can talk to the future.



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by TheAvenger
 

This isn't some pitiful banana republic, this is the U.S.A. There's been no coupe here since 1963.....


I was stationed at MacDill AFB in Tampa Fl in November, 1963. On Monday, the 18th day of November, JFK and Jackie rode past our BX where I as taking lunch in the open limo they often campaigned in. They went to Lopez Field to open the '64 campaign early in Florida which was then shifting out of the Dem column into the GOP column. Race motivated. Anti school integration.

I was in tech school - Inertial Navigation System - to maintain the new to the Air Force F4Cs, when we heard the disastrous news from Dallas on Friday, just after our lunch. I was a single guy and I lived off base in a small apartment. Very small. On Sunday morning I walked into downtown Tampa to buy some out of town newspapers - very few papers in the south are worth burning - the Miami Herald excepted - when the tv blaring in Walgreen's announced the shooting of Oswald by Ruby! Impossible we all thought! What is going on here? In America. No one could answer. That event was replayed endlessly on tv. (We did not yet have the Zaputer film).

I don't think anyone then - 1963 - thought there was either a conspiracy or a coup. That all came later. I bought and have read and re-read the Warren Commission Report. I am satisfied with that report. It was Mark Lane's "Rush to Judgment" that spawned the conspiracy cottage industry that still thrives.

[edit on 1/29/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 29 2008 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 

George W. Bush had history on his mind . . I couldn't escape the feeling that he was talking to future historians rather than the people in that room with him. In spite of their many failures, the Republicans have managed to get some things right over the last seven years. I thought he was even handed in the way he praised and condemned. I couldn't help but wonder where his spine has been all these years. This was the speech he needed to make in January of 2003. Forceful, but benevolent.


On the assumption that nothing happens by accident at the high level of human interrelations we are dealing with - the national government - I can only say I am glad to see him about to go. If he has a philosophy I cannot discern it. Based on what I know, I am still willing to call him a COWBOY who got caught at a SINGULAR MOMENT in time which OVERWHELMED him. His personal lack of educated background and his poor choices of an inner circle left him with only the West of the Pecos mentality, a modern day Judge Roy Bean. As one wag recounted when the Judge was about to hang a half dozen cowboys, some of whom were no doubt innocent, “I’ll hang’em all and let GOD sort them out.” Bush43 had a solution for a problem that did not exist. And it will take us 20 years to wipe up the mess which I see as his legacy. If we ever can.


It's ironic to me that earlier in the day, we watched Senator Kennedy and his kin pass their mantle of social championship to Barack Obama. As they passed the torch to a new generation of Democrats, the Republican candle may have flickered and gone out for the last time. For just a moment, I was ill. I don't enjoy being a predictor of my preferred party's demise. I just don't like seeing this particular prognostication come true.


These must surely be halcyon days for Obama, his well deserved apogee. I don’t know how he will fare in Florida today. My sister and I voted by absentee ballot in case we were out of town, and Hillary has at least 2 votes. Plus 2 NO votes on the pro-Rich anti-Poor property tax scam on the ballot. I hate this system of voter initiative law writing. Why don’t we abolish the legislature anyway? Our world has been screwed up ever since Proposition 13. TOO dam much democracy! It will be the DEATH of America.


When our 4th of July holiday rolls around, Mr. Bush will be presented with one last chance to announce a real end to the Iraq nightmare. Even if the draw-down is not completed on his watch, he will at least give his fellow Republicans something to go to the polls with in November. The patriotism of the moment wouldn't wash away all of his sins, but he would leave office just a little bit cleaner. A lot of us are for the war. We saw a lot of good reasons to do it. We've been frustrated by the fact that this President has gone out of his way to find and use every lame and senseless reason he could find, instead of the simple and verifiable truth.


The short and long of “Iraq” is we have disturbed (if not irrevocably destroyed) the delicate balance of power in the Middle East which was just barely recovering from the momentous effect of the demise of the Soviet Union. You’ve got to figure the OIL puppet - Bush41 - followed by his junior edition - Bush43 - were determined to replace the USSR with the USA in every possible place. But instead, we now face Hobson's choice.

Now by mucking it up so badly - thanks in a big part to Herr Oberfuhrer Rumsfeld and VP Cheney - it appears IRAN will come out as the new hegemony of the Persian Gulf. Thank you Bush43! You were brilliant. You have accomplished for Iran what the Ayatollah has sought since 1978. Sweet Jesus! Come quick!

I am NOT for the War. I have always said there were NO WMDs. Always. Vietnam and Iraq are similar in one way only - we had no legitimate business in either place. If we walk away from Iraq as we did in Vietnam, we surrender to Iran. If we cannot reach an accommodation with Iran - and Syria and Egypt as well - we are faced with staying where we are not wanted or giving up. But there is a glimmer of hope out there.

What we cannot get through our heads here is that the Arab-Israeli issue is the KEY to the Middle East. We could impose a settlement on them if we wanted. We are allied with the ETHNIC CLEANSING Jewish hardliners who see this as an opportunity to get an ARAB free Holy Land, Israel. At our expense. Everybody knows the only workable outcome. The West Bank free of ALL Jewish settlements, part of East Jerusalem to include the top of the Temple Mount, Gaza and a grade separated FREE road between the two places that the Israelis cannot hamper free travel on.

The new Palestinian state must be UNARMED except for ordinary police. The US must keep out of its elections. The denial of the Arab’s Right of Return must be compensated. Lets use the simple payment of $1 m. for each property taken by the Israelis. We pay it because it is cheaper for us thatn to fight for hegemony.

The US must send in 20,000 solders to guard the border for perhaps 10-20 years, and sharply reduce the IDF. And we must give the Arabs $5 b. a year FREE OF STRINGS for the next 20 years, for the Arabs to use in making a new country out of a place where we ILLEGALLY intruded in 1948.

And then there will be peace in the Middle East which is of great value to us since we cannot get off the addiction for oil.

[edit on 1/29/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 12:21 AM
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Okay, new question. How does a Clinton-Obama ticket beat a McCain-Romney combo?



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:57 AM
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Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Okay, new question. How does a Clinton-Obama ticket beat a McCain-Romney combo?


Well Obama taking the VP slot would be a double edge sword for him . If elected he would be able to add VP experience on his CV but the highly charged partisan environment would collide with the idea of a "new way " that he has been selling.

Still selling out ones ideals for power or just making a good sales job are hardly new ideas. But to answer your question is target the weakest link which appears to be Romney flip flops . McCain connection to Iraq and the Bush admin should also paint a target on his back .

It has been noted that the McCain and the Clinton's are on friendly terms see this thread for more on this matter.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 03:01 AM
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Clinton-Obama beats McCain-Romney by doing the following:

1. Stick to economic issues

Most of the current U.S. economic woes can be directly correlated to failed Bush policy. They can make that mud stick with very little effort. they'll get some help from the MSM, which will be happy to play along. Force Romney to defend the Bush economic agenda, and it will tarnish his own private sector success by making him look like a fat cat who has too much time and money on his hands.

2. Remind voters of just how badly the Iraq war has been mismanaged

Nobody really needs to be reminded, but they should keep this issue on the front burner so that McCain never has a chance to turn away from it. Hillary can dance with mcCain while Obama goes after Romney.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 03:37 AM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


A lot depends on voter sentiment concerning the war in Iraq. If the majority of people want the US to leave Iraq rather then hear about Rumsfeld melding then pointing out how this mess could have been avoided may not be enough in the minds of voters.

Having said that the reminder of the botched post Saddam era might be enough to undo Republican claims about being better managers of national security and stir the voters into ticking the box with Hillary name next to it.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 01:57 PM
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As you know, John Edwards has withdrawn from the race. This now leaves Clinton and Obama. We should expect them to slow down a little as the continue to pull their punches. They're both going to wait and see how things stand after February 5th. Then, they will negotiate.

I still maintain that Obama lacks the boots on the ground to hustle enough votes before Super Tuesday. Even with the Kennedy clan out to support him, we should expect to see Senator Clinton win in the West. In particular, her win in California will make it obvious that she's the front-runner.

I applaud Obama's success to date, but he has never had the endurance built in to his campaign that he needed to take on the likes of Billary.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by Justin Oldham
 


I still maintain that Obama lacks the boots on the ground . . Even with the Kennedy clan out to support him, we should expect to see Senator Clinton win in the West. In particular, her win in California will make it obvious that she's the front-runner. I applaud Obama's success to date, but he has never had the endurance built in to his campaign that he needed to take on the likes of Billary.


Here’s why Obama cannot win the Dems nomination. Snoop Dog on Larry King Live today answered the de rigeur question whites put to blacks, “What do you think about Obama?” Snoop said all the nice things, how Hillary was Bill’s backbone and blacks did well under him and sure, he’s simpatico with Barack. NOTE: I’m telling you, America is TOO racist to ever elect a black president. We (whites) don’t understand the problem blacks face and worse, we don’t want to. The GOP learned that back in the Nixon-era and have never stopped using it - Gerald Ford excepted. I just finished reading a book on ‘Sundown Towns’ in America. The author lists over 1,000 such towns in 2005.

You can see if you live in a sundown town by looking at the census for 1900 and 2000. If the percent of blacks has declined, then you probably live in a sundown town. Ft. Lauderdale is the largest sundown town in America.



posted on Jan, 30 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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I don't have Don's life experience, but I do know what I've seen in my travels. I do think that we are capable of electing a black man to be President. Any black person who ran for our highest office would have an uphill fight, and they wouldn't win by a wide margine. If they brought the right combination of life experience and ideas to the table, I think they'd win. I understand that race is still a factor, but I don't think its the end all and be all that it used to be.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 02:35 AM
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I think that we may be assuming to much . While I think that Hillary winning her party nomination is a reasonable assumption I am not so sure about her VP pick. Richards springs to mind he would get rid of the inexperienced tag and assuming that Republican planning is based around a Hillary - Obama ticket a spanner could be thrown into the works.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 03:14 AM
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I think that Obama will be "given" the presidency and Clinton will be his vice president.

Not too long into the term, Obama will be assasinated, yes just like JFK.

Clinton will take control of the White House and declare martial law over the entire USA as they hunt for the "false" assasins, keeping everyone in a constant state of fear, police will roam the streets with the military searching random vehicles at will, trying to locate an imaginary adversary.

The elites will have their Police State that they have been craving for, and it didnt take a terrorist explosion to take place or war with Iran to bring in place.

A win win situation for those who really pull the strings behind government.



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 09:10 AM
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reply to post by Melbourne_Militia
 


I think that Obama will be "given" the presidency and Clinton will be his vice president. Not too long into the term, Obama will be assassinated, yes just like JFK. Clinton will take control of the White House and declare martial law over the entire USA as they hunt for the "false" assassins, keeping everyone in a constant state of fear, police will roam the streets with the military searching random vehicles at will, trying to locate an imaginary adversary. The elites will have their Police State that they have been craving for, and it didn’t take a terrorist explosion to take place or war with Iran to bring in place. A win win situation for those who really pull the strings behind government.


1) I agree there are people behind the scenes but I do not agree they are “pulling the strings” as in some Masonic or Illuminati conspiracy. The US Federal budget is $3 T. Our tax system wrings $2.7 T. out of our near $14 T. GDP. Because our Constitution makes the House electable every two years and all spending bills must originate there, and it also prohibits WAR spending past 2 years, we are a society that cannot lay long range plans. I call it an ad hoc society. We talk (as the old Soviets) about 5 years out and 10 years out but we don’t call those PLANS. That would be socialism. GOD would punish us then.

2) Here is a short list of the Executive branch department over which the President presides and the top level of executives he appoints and who serve at his pleasure. Or her’s as the case may be in ‘09. About 3,000 appointees. State, War - now mislabeled Defense - and Treasury are mentioned in the Constitution. Others: Agriculture oversees our farm price supports which are ruining poor Africans. Commerce which represents US business interests abroad. Education which GOP policies have pretty much neutered.

Energy which is also in charge of building, storing and maintaining our 30,000 nuclear warheads. (Over the years we built about 70,000. Halliburton is one of the prime contractors if that tells you anything). Health and Human Services. We get very little of either. Homeland IN-Security as I call it. The biggest bamboozle in the history of the world. A limitless source of graft. Mostly "Secret." Justice, almost wrecked by Ashcroft - who covered the breasts of the Liberty statute in the DoJ office, and Gonzales who advised Bush43 that the Commander-in-Chief post was equal to Rome's First Consul, who also approved torture and illegal firing of the 6 US Attorneys.

Labor has been 8 years under the control of the wife of Sen. McConnell now the GOP Minority Leader, who has refused to enforce Wage and Hours laws or OSHA safety rules. A real fox in the hen house. Transportation. Builders of highways and inspection of bridges as in Minnesota. Veteran Affairs as in keeping the Walter Reed Hospital fit for human habitation. Or not. Veteran organizations like the VFW - slightly left - and DAV - further left - say the $34 b. budget should be $51 b. The American Legion - much to the right - supports the government. I belong to the first 2 but abjure the last. Other national veterans organizations have been revealed to be scams but we refuse to have rules or regulators over here. Better to be scammed that to have a government regulator.

Interior, oversees the give away of our lands and forest. The US government owns about 1/3 of the land but leases it to political favorites on very favorable terms. And last, also mentioned in the Constitution, the Treasury. Once upon a time both the Secret Service - first organized to catch counterfeiters - and the Coast Guard were part of Treasury but not now. I said a lot to say this, anyone needs outside advice to run an enterprise this large. That does not necessarily mean they are “pulling the strings” as if a shadow government. IMO. See www.lib.lsu.edu...

[edit on 1/31/2008 by donwhite]



posted on Jan, 31 2008 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by xpert11
 

I think that we may be assuming to much . While I think that Hillary winning her party nomination is a reasonable assumption I am not so sure about her VP pick. Richardson springs to mind he would get rid of the inexperienced tag and assuming that Republican planning is based around a Hillary - Obama ticket a spanner could be thrown into the works.


1) I take the Hillary nomination to be almost a certainty. As much as anything in this world is predictable or certain. McCain is currently basking in the euphoria following his victory in Florida - the first large state to vote - after a more predicable victory in South Carolina. Both FL and SC have large retired military populations. Especially Florida.

I still see the GOP choices to be Romney with McCain in the No. 2 slot. For one thing, McCain has a long voting record in the Senate usually along lines moderates tend to think of as doctrinaire politics. Romney has already committed himself to making the Bush43 tax cuts permanent thereby condemning the next 2 generations to pay for the LUXURY ride we are taking with Halliburton and so on. Once the public sobers up after FL, it will be more familiar grounds over which the fight will be waged.

2) Blacks number 13% of the US population, recently passed by Hispanics as the largest minority now at 14%. No other minority rises to the double digit level. The Catholic Protestant split had nearly disappeared but with the advent of Bush43 and now, Huckabee versus Romney, religion is dragged out of the gutter and put back on the GOP front burner. (Barely) speaking of Catholics, I have read one Catholic author who says that American Catholics have morphed into WASPs without the P. I can personally vouch that the homily in most masses I attend could have been read in any main line Protestant church, if you leave out the 5 minutes related to the Eucharist. (My family are Catholic, I am not).

Blacks have faithfully and reliably supported the Democratic Party since 1932 and FDR and especially Eleanor Roosevelt who was their primary advocate in public. Harry Truman issued the Armed Forces desegregation Executive Order in 1948. Ike smacked the blacks, but JFK and LBJ proved to be their best advocates in the 20th century. Nixon, Reagan and the 2 Bushes proved to be virulently anti-black. Now, when the blacks have produced a candidate who is viable nationally, the Dems MUST give him the VP slot. Bill Richardson has a more varied background and is a good speaker, but NM has but 5 electoral votes and IL has 21. Who gets the nod? See www.electoral-vote.com...

[edit on 1/31/2008 by donwhite]



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