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Michael Vick's Dog Fighting Indictment

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posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 03:23 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Another thought here... What the hell is happening in professional sports? They're turning into groups of thugs and criminals. Professional athletes used to be people that kids could look up to and strive to be like. I wouldn't want my kids trying to emulate the gangster athletes of today...


The sad thing is kids AND adults do look up to Michael Vick, and people like him. I was just in my car listening to ESPN radio, and they spoke to an Atlanta sportswriter that said the town is split on this, and he has many people supporting him in this instance. He indicated that it appears the majority of his supporters are African American. That you can't ignore the racial aspect of this.

This says to me that these supporters think the fact he is allegedly involved in something as heinous as dog fighting is superseded by his talents. There is a section of the population (I'm sure it's not only African Americans) that is comfortable admiring someone that participates in this type of sadistic endeavor.

There are many, many, athletes that are quality people. The thugs get most of the headlines, obviously. I think it is just so weird that thugs and criminals still receive adoration, and the decent people go unnoticed.

It doesn't help that teams look the other way when athletes abuse women, drive drunk, etc. The NFL has a new commissioner who has recently begun to hand out stiff suspensions, and the Chicago Bears just made a strong statement by cutting a quality player that ran into problems after promising he wouldn't.

It will be interesting to see how the Atlanta Falcons handle this when more information comes out in court. Michael Vick is the face of that franchise. They have a new coach and recently traded another talented quarterback to show Vick he was their guy.

They are really going to be on the spot with this.




posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 05:02 PM
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How did I know this would turn into the typical 'what's wrong with black people' thread? (yawn)

Of course, what he did was disgusting, cruel, and edging on the psychotic (if not fully within the realm thereof), but is he a "man" or is he a "black man"?

Anyway, if you're really appalled by animal cruelty, check this out.


Remnants of gladitorial combat nevertheless persist, notably at two prison rodeos in Angola, La., and McAlester, Okla., where Americans buy tickets to watch inmates wrestle bulls and participate in crowd favorites like "Convict Poker." Also called "Mexican Sweat," the poker game consists of four prisoners who sit expectantly around a red card table. A 1,500-pound bull is unleashed, and the last convict to remain sitting wins. Especially thrilling for the audience is the chaotic finale "Money the Hard Way" in which more than a dozen inmates scramble to snatch a poker chip dangling from the horns of another raging bull.
Inmates vs. Animals: U.S. Fails the Test of Civilization


How can a government that pits inmates against animals really prosecute some guy, no matter who he is, for fighting dogs? Sounds a little backwards to me...



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 05:27 PM
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Prison rodeos may be a bit screwed up, but the inmates aren't forced to take part in these events. Your partial quote didn't include that part of the article.

Were the pit bulls Vick was allegedly fighting and possibly executing volunteers?

Which do you think is being treated worse, the bulls, or the prisoners?

AND

Which do think is being treated worse in the Vick case, the dogs or the people that hold Vick and people like him in high regard?



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 05:34 PM
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Here's the real story of the Angola Rodeo.


The Angola Rodeo, the longest running prison rodeo in the nation, got its start in 1965. The first arena was small, built by a handful of dedicated inmates and personnel. It wasn't much in those days, and the rodeo was staged just for the entertainment of prisoners and employees. But it was fun.
...

The 1967 rodeo was opened to the general public on a limited basis. There were no stands. Spectators had to sit on apple crates and the hoods of their cars to watch the performances.

...

What began 40 years ago as a "fun" thing by a handful of rodeo-loving inmates and employees is now big business. Proceeds from the Angola Prison Rodeo cover rodeo expenses and supplement the Louisiana State Penitentiary Inmate Welfare Fund which provides for inmate educational and recreational supplies.

www.angolarodeo.com...


Any comparison to the gladiatorial games of Rome is hogwash. A better comparison would be to all the other rodeo events that take place throughout the US.

ANGOLA PRISON RODEO CHARTER

sportsshooter.com

www.google.com


[edit on 2007/7/19 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 06:16 PM
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Originally posted by HarlemHottie
How did I know this would turn into the typical 'what's wrong with black people' thread? (yawn)


ONE PERSON mentioned something he heard on the radio and then proceeded to say:


Originally posted by Musky
I'm sure it's not only African Americans


And you interpret that as the THREAD has turned into a 'what's wrong with black people' thread?

Jesus, I guess it's not really safe to explore a possible racial aspect of this, then, huh?



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 06:36 PM
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Anyone doing that kind of stuff to dogs should be shot. I don't care who it is.

Disgusting


And also - when the news channels talk about it, do they really have to show video of dogs fighting? I get sick hearing the things they do, but showing video...



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 08:36 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis
Having fought with some of those wonderful brave men and women that have ideals far greater than that comment deserve, or perhaps you can understand, I must say your analogy is somewhat egotistical and perhaps even psychosomatic... or jealousy raising it's ugly head huh?

But it is as expected.

Semper



Um, I'm a war vet. I can say that. Deal.



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Why do they do it?

I think in some cases where people fight dogs, they do it as an extension of what they'd like to be able to do. In other words, (in some cases) there's a unleashed violence, unexpressed rage and almost psychopathy buried in a person and this is the form they use to 'express' it or get it out. Their dogs are like an extension of them.

I can't help it, I hate these people. I hope he gets locked up. I wish they all would.


It's called "I wish I had a Bigger Vick syndrome".



[Mod Edit: (family site)]

[edit on 21-7-2007 by 12m8keall2c]

[edit on 21-7-2007 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by gallopinghordes


This totally out of line ECK. My brother is going over there and has never been a proponent of mindless violence in his life. The soldiers he is going over with have high moral standards. I really don't appreciate the insult intended or not towards the soldiers and marines who are serving or have served with honor and decency.


I'm really sorry to offend your sensibilities. I think I earned the right to speak on these issues, having gone through that ring of fire myself (Gulf War, US Army) - as a volunteer.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 06:56 AM
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Um, I'm a war vet. I can say that. Deal.


That only makes what you said more cowardly...

Thank God you were not in my unit..

Semper



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 07:50 AM
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Semper:
ECK volunteered to go fight a war - how does that make him cowardly? Or are you saying he's a coward because he stated his observation and opinion? And, you're addressing one of those "brave men and women" you fought beside - I guess you figure there are exceptions? I really don't follow your reasoning.
And remember Abu Ghraib, which was NOT one of our country's finest moments, the soldiers acted pretty atrociously there.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by HarlemHottie
How did I know this would turn into the typical 'what's wrong with black people' thread? (yawn)


ONE PERSON mentioned something he heard on the radio and then proceeded to say:


Originally posted by Musky
I'm sure it's not only African Americans


And you interpret that as the THREAD has turned into a 'what's wrong with black people' thread?

Jesus, I guess it's not really safe to explore a possible racial aspect of this, then, huh?



I certainly was not trying to turn this into a what's wrong with black people thread. Since the comments I heard on the radio from the Atlanta sportswriter were in response to a question asked by Steven A. Smith, a black broadcaster, I felt my comments were appropriate to the discussion. He asked the writer if Vick's support was divided along racial lines.

Of course Vick's support in the black community is going to be strong for what he can do as a player. He's a black superstar QUARTERBACK, which is not common. He's viewed as a proud guy. The writer mentioned that Vick's support as a player is also divided by race. He listens to rap, wears his cap turned to the side, etc. This has a lot of appeal in the black community. Conversely, he's probably seen as too arrogant by whites, which is a shame. A little poor play in a game, and those actions are held against him. He shouldn't be judged by that. There's no reason for him to be Peyton Manning, though I'm sure the league, his team, and his agents wish he would be. That's the money view.

What he should be judged by are his actions. If the dog fighting allegations are true, shouldn't his black supporters also be outraged? Shouldn't they be pissed? I'm sure some are, but apparently he still has a lot of support if what the writer said was true.

Any player should lose all his fans for involvement in something as horrific as dog fighting; or beating women, or running someone over in their car drunk, or beating the crap out of someone in a night club, or pulling a gun on someone.

As I said before, however, professional sports takes some of the blame in these types of cases. The leagues and franchises have a short memory when it comes to lawbreakers. Talent can buy you a lot of breaks. For years it's been, if you can play, we will pay. I'm wondering if that's about to change a little bit.

The dog fighting thing is just so weird and grotesque, that if he's convicted, I don't see how he gets a pass. He'll have ruined his life over some desire to feel powerful as part of an activity a majority of the world looks at in horror.

I don't get it.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 08:59 AM
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Musky, I have been doing some research on the "downfall" (if you want to call it that) of the professional sports leagues (especially NBA and NFL) and there's a LOT to it. I thought of starting a thread about it, but I'm not a sports fan and I'm concerned that it would only become a thread of contention.

But basically, a lot of black kids are nurtured to become sports stars, by their families and by the (white-owned and operated) leagues. Being a professional athlete is perceived as a way the black man can claim some of the power they feel their race has been denied for so long.

And sadly, one of the reasons many black people still support people like Vick is that they judge him by the color of his skin, and not the content of his character.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 12:54 PM
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I think the reason people are so pissed off is the way they actually disposed of the dogs. Hangings, electrocution, slamming into the grown; that's just sickening. If you read the full report, it kind of alludes that Vick actually took part in some of the killings; at least that is what I got from it. I agree that people like murders and such should get more time, but, his associates, and possibly himself did kill animals.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by semperfortis

Um, I'm a war vet. I can say that. Deal.


That only makes what you said more cowardly...

Thank God you were not in my unit..

Semper



Uh, yeah. Ok.

Anyway.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by ChrisJr03
I think the reason people are so pissed off is the way they actually disposed of the dogs. Hangings, electrocution, slamming into the grown; that's just sickening. If you read the full report, it kind of alludes that Vick actually took part in some of the killings; at least that is what I got from it. I agree that people like murders and such should get more time, but, his associates, and possibly himself did kill animals.


It's barbaric. If you've ever had a pet you loved, I don't see how you could get into this. It's absolutely heartless; sub-conscious behavior. Devoid of morality. The question is, what makes people want to watch this?



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 09:18 PM
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Originally posted by forestlady
Semper:
ECK volunteered to go fight a war - how does that make him cowardly? Or are you saying he's a coward because he stated his observation and opinion? And, you're addressing one of those "brave men and women" you fought beside - I guess you figure there are exceptions? I really don't follow your reasoning.
And remember Abu Ghraib, which was NOT one of our country's finest moments, the soldiers acted pretty atrociously there.


To be fair, I joined the Army during the relatively safe latter days of the Cold War. To the common man, war was not on our horizon.

However, growing up with the constant threat of being nuked off the planet by the Red Menace (Soviets); with the ghosts of WW2 and holocaust hanging in the air, I always wondered what I would do if I were ever faced with war. Would I just crumble out of fear and give up and hide? Or would I stand up and face it? Shudder.

Thankfully, though, when Saddam invaded Kuwait, I was older, in the Army and really offended by the uncessary violence. I believed 1000% in my leadership and in our cause and I most willingly went to war.

Makes me feel good to know I wasn't afraid; and that I went. I wouldn't trade that experience for anything in the world.

Anyway, I wanted to say thank you, though, for the kind words.



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 09:15 AM
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Back to the subject of this thread...


What's infuriating me right now is the amount of support this slime (Vick) is getting!

Virginia's Hometown Backs Vick



"He's Michael Vick, one of the highest-paid athletes in the NFL. If O.J. [Simpson] can get away with murder, Michael Vick can get away with a few hurt dogs. I've been to 'em [dogfights]. They're around here. I never saw Vick."
...
"Our football program would not survive without Michael Vick and the donations he makes," Hundley said. "If we need chin straps, ear pads, screws, pants, anything we call Mike and ask for we don't have any problem getting. We all make mistakes. I do, I have, and I feel like this is just one of those things where we have to wait for it all to blow over."


But one might expect his hometown to muster up some support for him so I can understand that.

What I don't understand is what I've read on some discussion boards (and I'm not going to link) that amounts to rationalizing his behavior and justifying it with a kind of "boys will be boys" attitude, suggesting that a slap on the wrist and the embarrassment he's suffering are punishment enough. I've read that with his resources (money), all he had to do was keep his "hobby" out of the public eye and he never would have gotten caught...


What kind of person would even deign to justify this man's behavior and suggest that if he had just been more cautious, darn him, he wouldn't be in trouble now?

Ugh! Disgusting!

Oh, and ECK, you don't have to be a war vet to say what you said.
Last I checked, this is the United States, where we ALL have the right to express ourselves as we are born into that right. The opinion of a service person holds no more weight than that of a civilian.



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 09:23 AM
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What's even more disgusting and perhaps disturbing BH, is that he knows that he
has support, and has outright said it in press releases, I believe he said something along
the lines of "Shih, of course I have support, people all over the world love me, everyone likes Michael Vick."

I probably got a few words off, but you get the point.



As for the people who actually think this is acceptable, well it's people like them who make
me wonder if culling certain aspects of the population might just be justifiable.



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 09:54 AM
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Originally posted by JIMC5499
I disagree with the NFL imposing suspensions and fines on players before they are convicted of a crime. If and when Vick is convicted then punish him, untill then he is presumed innocent. Come on people the Duke rape case wasn't that long ago.


That may be true but when your pulling dead dogs off a property that have obviously been mutilated and tourchered i think adds a different set of circumstances. Remember the guy that took people cut them up ate them and put remains in his back yard. Would you want him to be walking around before he was 'convicted'?



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