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Professors in Colorado Recieve Death Threats for Teaching Evolution

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posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 12:17 AM
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Originally posted by MidnightDStroyer

You may notice that I answered my own questions in that post, but I answered with my own opinions...At this point, I'm asking what your answers/opinions on Korn's behavior.


You may have read some comments by now that I've made concerning this guy. He was as wrong as wrong can be. I have no sympathy for him whatsoever just because he calls himself a Christian.




posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 01:21 AM
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Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
What you aren't seeing is that the key word is evidence. Nothing is ever completely proven. But there IS evidence of evolution, and there is no evidence supporting creation.

No evidence? What an absolutely absurd statement. The entire universe is evidence of intelligent design, yet you sit there with your blinders on and say "i don't see anything". Right down to a single "simple" living cell, the EVIDENCE points to intelligent design, NOT a chance happening or evolution. A single living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations. The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 10 to the power of 4,478,296. Those are the types of odds that evolution consistently rams right into. Again, the EVIDENCE is so strongly in favor of intelligent design that the odds against it are, statistically speaking, ZERO.

That is science. It isn't "religion" or "philosophy".

I'm sorry if you can't face the simple truth that the "log cabin" was built by somebody. You can come up with all kinds of wild theories and ideas about how trees fall and roll on their own and can possibly, eventually, somehow form a 3-story, 12,000-foot log cabin straight off a magazine cover, but if it didn't happen that way and you refuse to consider that into your thinking, then you are simply groping in the dark and will never find the switch.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 01:49 AM
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Originally posted by grimreaper797

Don't bring Gould into the idea he supports your arguement. You nitpicked that quote, unsurprisingly, to twist it to your agenda.



You could not be more wrong, as we will see (once again).


The late Harvard evolutionist Stephen Jay Gould states: “When we look to presumed sources of origin for competing evolutionary explanations of the giraffe’s long neck, we find either nothing at all or only the shortest of speculative conjectures. . . . The giraffe’s neck just wasn’t a big issue for the founders of evolutionary theory—not as a case study for arguing about alternative mechanisms, not for anything much at all. No data from giraffes then existed to support one theory of causes over another, and none exist now”


How much more clear does Gould have to be?

There is no fossil record showing a gradual increase in giraffe neck length.

Seriously, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?

Gould agrees. Period. He also said:

“All giraffes belong to a single species, quite separate from any other ruminant mammal, and [allegedly] closely related only to the okapi (a rare, short-necked, forest-dwelling species of central Africa). Giraffes have a sparse fossil record in Europe and Asia, but [alleged] ancestral species are relatively short necked, and the spotty evidence gives no insight into how the long-necked modern species arose

In other words...

There is no fossil record showing a gradual increase in giraffe neck length.




He also had this to say:

Many researchers now suggest that the primary function of giraffe neck length is not for reaching leaves on tall trees, but for male combat (“necking”), or for spotting predators, or for shedding heat through increased skin surface area. All of these functions “have been viewed by prominent scientists as a chief reason for the evolution of the long necks” (Gould 56f.). Darwin himself (202) alludes to some of these as alternate possibilities.


Congratulations! You were able to confirm that Gould pointed out that scientists have used various theories to try to explain long-necked giraffes. So that proves what? That Gould made a list? LOL Yeah, he made a list and then said (once again)...

“When we look to presumed sources of origin for competing evolutionary explanations of the giraffe’s long neck, we find either nothing at all or only the shortest of speculative conjectures."

and

"the spotty evidence gives no insight into how the long-necked modern species arose

I could not agree with him any more if I tried.

Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?



Gould didn't say there was no evidence to the evolution of the long neck, but no evidence to support one theory of evolution above another.


ROFL. I'm the delusional one? Re-read the quotes. The reason there is "no evidence to support one theory of evolution above another" is indeed because there is "no evidence to the evolution of the long neck".

Gould says it implicitly and explicitly.

If you need more Gould quotes, just let me know.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 06:18 AM
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Originally posted by GLDNGUN

I know, I know...when an anti-Christian extremist "speculates", it's called "science", and when a creationist "speculates", it's called "blind faith". Funny how that works.


No..no.no. It's more like this

Anti-Christian speculates it's called "he's going to hell"

Creationists speculates it's called....Wait. Speculation? Well that would mean that I'm not 1000% positive in my Lord, and I just know that I know, that I know that Jesus is watching me and he knows..he knows! Thats the devil just trying to get me to reason..er...I mean think...er I mean backslide into the world. Nope, no thanks, I'm a warrior for Christ.


That is my perspective, and the difference between Christians and most others is that they choose to seperate themselves just like you did by saying Christian and Anti-Christian. It's that attitude of, you're either for us or against us, that alienate and cause discourd. It is very hard to have an objective discussion with someone who assumes they are correct from the begining and part of that belief lies in the idea that you should'nt investigate other religions for risk of backsliding from the truth. I'm not saying that this is your personal belief but certainly the typical protocal that I have been exposed to over the years.

[edit on 20-7-2007 by kleverone]



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 06:54 AM
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Huh? I'm the one trying to explain the basics here. Funny how I have to drag the evolutionists along kicking and screaming.


GLDNGUN, you have to be the most arrogant, self centered person i have ever encountered.

You, are worth SH*T. Nothing but SH*T.

You come here, thinking you know EVERYTHING, but your just making us laugh at you, because you talk like you know it all, but you dont know SH*T.

Evolution, is pretty much fact. You wouldnt know, since all you do is listen to those famous creationists, and then carry their arguments. You have never done any research for your self.

Seriously, are you like 14 years old?



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by GLDNGUN
No evidence? What an absolutely absurd statement. The entire universe is evidence of intelligent design, yet you sit there with your blinders on and say "i don't see anything". Right down to a single "simple" living cell, the EVIDENCE points to intelligent design, NOT a chance happening or evolution. A single living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations. The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 10 to the power of 4,478,296. Those are the types of odds that evolution consistently rams right into. Again, the EVIDENCE is so strongly in favor of intelligent design that the odds against it are, statistically speaking, ZERO.


Listen dude, you're well off base here. All you are showing is that you do not understand evolution or science, but are able to parrot others arguments.

Evolution is not chance. All those stats you have are just rubbish and show you don't understand stats either.

Your argument is basically 'ooh, it's all so complex, therefore god'.

Also, just for reference. The log cabin stuff is a bad argument, when you find a log cabin that can reproduce with modification, then that argument may have some validity in a discussion of evolution.

[edit on 20-7-2007 by melatonin]



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 08:14 AM
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I wonder....

Throughout ATS's recent history I've read countless posts saying that Muslims should be detained at airports and undergo a higher level of scrutiny because of their extremist counterparts. Should we now enforce this same scrutiny towards Christians on College campuses? How about at hospitals and clinics due to Christian extremist's bombings?



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 08:45 AM
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gldngun....dude, you really don't know what you're talking about man..
you say there is NO chance of even a single cell and then toss out all those numbers.

well, there are billions and billions of galaxies out there. each contains billions and billions of stars and planets....each and every one of those is a chance for life.
i'm stupid so i can't do the math but it's up there.
we're not talking they have to be bipeds or anything. even if one of those galaxies has one planet that has one single celled organism, then there is life out there besides us...

let me ask you, IF there was life found a few million light years away from us and that life resembled a worm or whatever, would you still think god did it?

sorry but the solar system is about 13 billion years old. earth about 4 billion. that is plenty of time for the ball to get rolling.
a meteor hits and brings with it some foreign matter and then a couple million years later you have an electric storm and then this and then that.
or, another set of possibles. or, another set of possibles...
pretty much infinite you know.

i have always wondered, if god did it all, and humans will never, ever be able to traverse the distance, then why did he put it there?
if there is no life out there and we bad ass humans will never get there, then why is it there?

oh thats right....part of gods plan



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 09:00 AM
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GLDNGUN

Thanks for answering my questions.

I believe that your starting post has cause quite a riot in this thread, you were . . . let say. . . misunderstood . . .

Is going to be hard to backtrack where the misunderstanding started.

Good luck.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 09:01 AM
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Originally posted by GLDNGUN

Here we go again. MICRO evolution and MACRO evolution. Over the last 100 years or so, geneticists have documented over 3,000 mutations in the fruit fly. This little bug is perhaps the evolutionists favorite, yet science journals have not documented a SINGLE fruit fly evolving into something else, no matter how often and badly they're mutated.

Not a SINGLE one.



The problem with your analyis is a failure to understand the time scales involved in MACRO evolution. 100 years is nothing...MACRO evolution occurs over millions of years. Geological time scales, man! There is no possibility any human could ever directly observe MACRO evolution occuring in a population. What we have observed, as you've correctly stated, is MICRO evolution. However, you fail to realize that the effects of MICRO evolution are additive, and over millions and millions of years, populations have shifts in the frequencies of the genes that are expressed, leading to speciation. Direct speciation has been observed in plants resulting from hybridization and natural polyploidy mutations that have allowed fertile seeds to be formed from such unions. This is the closest we can come to observing MACRO evolution in vivo. If you took the time to study genetics and molecular biology, you would have already known this.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by GLDNGUN
No evidence? What an absolutely absurd statement. The entire universe is evidence of intelligent design, yet you sit there with your blinders on and say "i don't see anything". Right down to a single "simple" living cell, the ..................

............then you are simply groping in the dark and will never find the switch.


That isn't science, thats religion. That is taking what you cannot explain, and giving it an explaination that you can understand. The evidence doesn't point to intelligent design. It may point away from evolution, but that doesn't mean it points to intelligent design. The most any evidence can do is disprove every theory that isn't intelligent design, or dealing with some super natural beyond our realm of physic explaination. Anything that requires the laws of physics to be broken, like a GOD creating matter and life, will never be proven by anything that exists in this universe.

That is science. Saying that the laws of physics apply to everything BUT some being outside of our universe who can create things at will is not science, because there is no proof of it. There may be proof that evolution did not happen, but there will never be any proof that intelligent design happened. You can call it however you like, but simply existing isn't proof of intelligent design. Just because you think its mind blowing how complex everything is does not mean god had to have made it.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 11:03 AM
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Okay,

AS the OP, I'd like to bring this back on topic. Once in a while we have an on topic post, then it gets derailed and sent back to the same old creation/evolution argument. So, would someone mind answering my previously posted question?


Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I wonder....

Throughout ATS's recent history I've read countless posts saying that Muslims should be detained at airports and undergo a higher level of scrutiny because of their extremist counterparts. Should we now enforce this same scrutiny towards Christians on College campuses? How about at hospitals and clinics due to Christian extremist's bombings?



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 11:04 AM
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As for human beings being special, we aren't. We killed off the neanderthals, which were not the same as us, a long time ago. So where did neanderthals come from, and why were they there? They aren't human beings like me and you, they were a different species. Where did they come from, and why were they there?

Also Macro evolution, as said by another member, isn't something that occurs over 100 years...or even 1,000 years. It takes a VERY long time so that stuff to occur. Slight mutations over hundreds of thousands of years, in combination with mass extinctions and environmental changes makes it very hard to say what came from where. There have been 8-9 mass extinctions in earths history I believe. It is hard to say if we will ever be able to figure out everything that was living, or what is connected to it.

I stick by the fact that gould, an evolution supporter, believes in evolution. Just because they cannot find bonafide proof that it is real, doesn't mean it isn't. The evidence that gould speaks of is something that is cold hard fact. There is no which way about it. He says there is little to none of that. This is true. What isn't true is gould saying "giraffes didn't evolve". Gould is saying "there is no evidence(concrete undeniable truth) that giraffes evolved from any known short neck giraffe or animal." Its not faith, its observable data that points in te direction they evolved. Fighting for mates isn't evidence, but it is data that supports the theory. What data supports creationism, nothing.

Not being able to understand something isn't data that supports creationism. Just because it is beyond you, doesn't mean it is beyond human comprehension, it's just your comprehension.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 11:40 AM
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I will post what I did before since it seems to have been glossed over, there are transitional Dinosaurs. and this is a transition between a species of Dinosaur.

From Previous post:

Look Up falcarius utahensis , its is the missing link between when a Raptor type Dinosaur became a Herbivore. Clear PROOF of evolution. of course you can say well they made it up or some other nonsensical argument. But this is actually fact. Personally I don't think you give God enough credit. What would be harder and more creative leading to life even God couldn't think up, waving the magic wand and life appears or to create a set of laws and rules and circumstances that if this happens, then that happens etc leading us to the diversity of life you see on this planet.

Can you at least acknowledge, that pigeons, doves, etc are related and have a common ancestor, or did god come up with different sub species as well? I guess God could be that creative, but it seems like evolution is a much more creative way to manage life. What about Elephants, and Mammoths ? Same sub species or God said we needs a hairy one and a non hairy one? Do you see where your argument falls apart?

For the record I believe in God, But I believe he/she/it does not control our daily lives, is something we really can't imagine. Maybe set things in motion, which caused a Multiverse, and the big bang, He a real good computer programmer, just uses an organic computer lol



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I wonder....

Throughout ATS's recent history I've read countless posts saying that Muslims should be detained at airports and undergo a higher level of scrutiny because of their extremist counterparts. Should we now enforce this same scrutiny towards Christians on College campuses? How about at hospitals and clinics due to Christian extremist's bombings?


I believe that such an action would creat a greater divide and ethnic tention. Hell it might push people some over the edge and become the extremists the security measures were designed to combat. Honestly, Unless ALL people that go through security check points are treated the same, I dont see a solution to the problem.

But for some reason, i think that was the point of your question, its all or nothing.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 12:04 PM
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Well Rasobasi420, it looks to me like it'd be best to just chalk up this topic as a failure due to extemes derailing it. If I were you, I'd ask a Mod to close it because it's been derailed completely into a whole 'nother can of worms than what it started as.

To me, there's no contradiction between Faith in God & Scientific Inquiry...One steeps itself in archaic language to describe life, the universe & everything, while the other tries to update our terminology so that we can better describe life, the universe & everything. In other words, Religion describes the "why" while Science tries to answer "how"...Would you see any contradiction there, 'cause I don't. Both are attempting to answer two different questions, so neither is capable of answering the other as long as the argument between extremes continues. Each of the extremes is failing to acknowledge that, just as the universe develops through time, so must our understanding of it.

What I see in this thread that's failed is that the two extremes are fighting out which is right (when neither is wrong) while the whole topic stems around one person breaking the law by issuing death threats to another. To me, that's laughable, because the primary law in the universe is balance & it's the imbalance between the two extreme viewpoints that's derailed the thread.
That's it, I'm tired of bashing my head between two walls as long as I can see that balance will never appear in this thread...


PS: The answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe & everything is 42...Just read Douglas Adams.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 01:03 PM
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I'd hate to close the thread due to past derailment (of which I too am guilty) because I think this topic is a valid one. And there have been some good points made that were on topic. Maybe if we could just try to avoid future derailment by having everyone stay on topic. I'll make a specific request to a Mod to keep a closer eye on posts that go off topic. Maybe even giving one of those big caution signs for off topic posts.

Thanks.

And yes InSpiteOf, that's exactly what I was getting at. It's all or nothing.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I'd hate to close the thread due to past derailment (of which I too am guilty) because I think this topic is a valid one. And there have been some good points made that were on topic. Maybe if we could just try to avoid future derailment by having everyone stay on topic. I'll make a specific request to a Mod to keep a closer eye on posts that go off topic. Maybe even giving one of those big caution signs for off topic posts.

Thanks.

And yes InSpiteOf, that's exactly what I was getting at. It's all or nothing.


Thought so, glad i could help


And i agree, closing this topic would be a bit of a waste. I've even enjoyed the off topic debate, but i think the issue at hand could use a little more attention as well.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 06:37 PM
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As Moderator Gools pointed out two days ago, this thread was not created for an evolution vs creationism debate. If you want to have that debate, take it elsewhere.
The topic of this thread is the threat directed against the professors.

The staff will be watching for and dealing with any intentional derailment of this thread. We expect our members to be treated with respect, and anyone who purposefully disrupts a discussion is disrespecting our members and violating our T&Cs.



posted on Jul, 20 2007 @ 07:03 PM
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I really wish people understood what a SCIENTIFIC THEORY is....

A brief definition of THEORY:
The most logical explanation of why things work the way they do. A theory is a former hypothesis that has been tested with repeated experiments and observations and found always to work.

let me repeat a really important part

TESTED with REPEATED EXPERIMENTS and observations and FOUND ALWAYS TO WORK.

Now that you understand what a theory is,
When you see "THEORY OF EVOLUTION" you can say

Evolution was a former hypothesis that has been tested with repeated experiments and observations and found always to work.

These teachers received death threats for teaching facts in school. Unfortunately these FACTS contradict the religious beliefs of some people and since said people can't disprove evolution... If they can't eliminate the message, they want to eliminate the messenger.

Are we going to eliminate math too? If 2 + 2 = 4 is an inconvenient truth for someone, why do we still learn it? Just remember, next time your checking account doesn't balance and you're overdrawn, just illiminate the minus sign in front of the amount and you're fine.

what about history? WW II didn't go well for the nazis so we should just remove WW II from our history books so nazis don't feel bad anymore.

Who cares if those pesky facts get in the way......




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