Can We Live Forever As Machines?

I came across the following piece in Psychology Today and found the article if not the concept fascinating. It's a longish five page read but well worth it, IMO.

Within 30 years, we will be able to scan ourselves--our intelligence,personlities, feelings and memories--into computers. Is this the beginning of eternal life?

Live Forever

How about it? Would you choose to scan yourself into a supercomputer so that you might live virtually( excuse the pun) forever? If evolution is ongoing for all species on a macro as well as micro basis, will we, as humans,eventually evolve into machines, through the use of science & technology? What about the soul?
Lots of very interesting things crop up when talking about the subject.

Aurthur Clark's 'Space Odyssey' series of books dealt with this. He mentioned that the beings that created the Monoliths started out as flesh and blood, moved on to swapping their bodies for machines and computers, and eventually totally abandoned the physical body.


What would life be like, whizzing around wires? And is it possible to move on from that?

Originally posted by watch_the_rocks
Aurthur Clark's 'Space Odyssey' series of books dealt with this. He mentioned that the beings that created the Monoliths started out as flesh and blood, moved on to swapping their bodies for machines and computers, and eventually totally abandoned the physical body.


What would life be like, whizzing around wires? And is it possible to move on from that?

Yes, I have read Clarke's books and flashed on that while reading this article. As far as evolution is concerned,(if we choose to use that term for the sake of the discussion),if we need machines to download our conciousness and personalities into, isn't it logical to think that at some point our minds and consciousness might evolve to the point where the machine is no longer necessary.? At that point we would essentially resemble Dave Bowman, from 2010: Odyssey Two, after his transformation.

You could'nt live forever as a machine, since the component atoms of the machines would
eventually break down as the elements 'died', since everything has a half-life.
In theory if you could manipulate space-time in such a way as to create a suitable sized bubble
in which time passed at an incredibly slower rate to the rest of the Universe,
say like one day in the bubble is equal to one-trillion years, and made it capable of withstanding
a big-bang event, you could live forever, just in a new Universe every few hundred trillion years.



Now, away from the physics and on to answering the question.

If certain other technologies were not fully developed at the time that would allow for immortality,
than yes I would scan my mind into a computer, though in all fairness I would have basic
engrams saved elsewhere to, but I would wait until rejuvenation technology came about,
or I would just have an Android body built and use it instead of a biologic one.

Humans will eventually become a majority Cybernetic species, that is biologic and
technologic components, so yes, we will in part evolve to be partially machine.

As for a soul, well I have my own idea of what it is if it exists, and doing the above would not
have any negative results, indeed it would actually be positive.


Those are my answers, I hope they are helpful and/or interesting.

Why would you want to? What's the fun of living forever? Eventually you've been everywhere, done everything, nothing new under the sun, as the expression goes. Next step insanity...

Life, or living ones life, is about knowing that one day your span comes to an end, the skein of your life, if you will, and making the most of the time you have.

What comes after life, the answer to that question is the final great adventure.

Yes, I suppose one day it'll be possible...would I do it? Not a chance...

Originally posted by iori_komei

If certain other technologies were not fully developed at the time that would allow for immortality,
than yes I would scan my mind into a computer, though in all fairness I would have basic
engrams saved elsewhere to, but I would wait until rejuvenation technology came about,
or I would just have an Android body built and use it instead of a biologic one.

Well, the article speaks of the technology for this type of operation to be available by 2030, assuming that science and technology proceeds at it's current exponential rate of development. Also, following the logic of the writer's vision of the future, you would be able to scan yourself from your existing computer base to another port in a newer and more updated computer, so that you never run the risk of having an older computer break down or become obsolete in it's ability to host your evolving "self".

In that scenario, there is no need for rejuvenation tech, as you can be as young or old as you want to appear, and in any living form, human or otherwise, (think about that for a minute!). Android bodies would be equally unnecessary, as they are a static form compared to your virtual self, that can be in several different places at the same time, which could be very handy in certain situations.

As for a soul, well I have my own idea of what it is if it exists, and doing the above would not have any negative results, indeed it would actually be positive.

Well, I'm glad you feel so confident, Iori. I, myself, have my doubts, but since I probably won't be around for the "big day", it's pretty much a moot point.

Those are my answers, I hope they are helpful and/or interesting.

Thanks for contributing to the disicussion.

[edit on 7/18/2007 by lightseeker]

I would say yes we could potentially live forever as machines...Download our minds onto a computer chip somewhere.

But, would we be the same people? I would venture to say no. The spark would most likely be lost in the transfer and we'd become easily manipulated robots. No more consciousness to speak of, just highly intelligent pieces of scrap metal.

I wouldn't want to live forever anyway. I find peace in death. I won't have to live here anymore, I get to move on. That's very comforting.

Screw the 3rd dimension, I'm already trapped here against my will I shall not trap myself if I have an opportunity to leave!

Gee, hope i don't crash or get corrupted...

The way I would think of this is like a 'clone,' you clone yourself into a body that doesn't die but... It's not really you, its a copy of you. Will people be selling pirate copy's of me in the future?

Maybe something that looks and acts like us on a computer but, it's just not possible. If we start showing people a video saying "OMG, I'm in the computer and ill live forever... this is amazing, and worth the $30." Who's to say it is real, who is to decide that this thing the appears to be someone 'scanned' into a computer is not just a program that imitates and responds to people.

It would become an easy way to kill everyone, making at appear that there not dead and they will live forever and you should too!

Originally posted by seagull
Yes, I suppose one day it'll be possible...would I do it? Not a chance...

Thanks for posting, Seagull, and sharing your thoughts. I don't think I would want to live forever either but an extra 100-200 years wouldn't be so bad.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
I wouldn't want to live forever anyway. I find peace in death. I won't have to live here anymore, I get to move on. That's very comforting.

Thanks for sharing, biggie; As seagull pointed out, what comes next after death is the great adventure and mystery that mankind has been pondering and debating for millenia. Whatever it is that comes after, it must be a giant step above what we know and percieve in this life. I look forward to finally being able to have all of my questions answered about the hereafter; I'm just not quite ready to find out anytime real soon.

Originally posted by lightseeker
I look forward to finally being able to have all of my questions answered about the hereafter; I'm just not quite ready to find out anytime real soon.

I'll go along with that. With the advances in various aspects of medical research it seems almost certain that mankinds span will be far more than it currently is. Is 150-200 years of healthy living possible? It will be I think, with no downloading into machines required.

Originally posted by lightseeker
How about it? Would you choose to scan yourself into a supercomputer so that you might live virtually( excuse the pun) forever?

Oh, machines will eventually be built that can live forever, but it won't have anything to do with us. Even if there was a way to create an exact mechanical duplicate of our brains, that doesn't mean we'll ever be able to transfer our own personal minds into it, and without that, we're nothing but a cheap copy.

I don't want to live forever, anyway. It's just too expensive.

Scanning yourself into a machine is not really living forever, but making a duplicate of your memorys ect at that specific moment. A better advancement would be slowly changing the body into a mechanical structure by slowly replacing every cell with nano machines that perform the same functions. This way, at some point your own brain will be the machine but you will keep all memorys and fore knowledge, unlike coyping yourself. Personaly, I believe this is how "god" was created. It probably started as some type of consiousness like ourselves trillions of years ago until it became what people think of it as now(whatever that may be). I can see many advantages to becoming an all pervading entity that lives too long.

Originally posted by Bumr055
Maybe something that looks and acts like us on a computer but, it's just not possible. If we start showing people a video saying "OMG, I'm in the computer and ill live forever... this is amazing, and worth the $30." Who's to say it is real, who is to decide that this thing the appears to be someone 'scanned' into a computer is not just a program that imitates and responds to people.

Your question is answered in the article through the link in the OP. Take a look and see what I mean. This is not scannning yourself into a computer as a program that can be bought and sold; you and you alone would decide what happens with your self. I really urge everyone who hasn't already done so to read the article in full because it answers a whole lot of the questions and misperceptions that have been expressed in the thread.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
Scanning yourself into a machine is not really living forever, but making a duplicate of your memorys ect at that specific moment. A better advancement would be slowly changing the body into a mechanical structure by slowly replacing every cell with nano machines that perform the same functions. This way, at some point your own brain will be the machine but you will keep all memorys and fore knowledge, unlike coyping yourself. Personaly, I believe this is how "god" was created. It probably started as some type of consiousness like ourselves trillions of years ago until it became what people think of it as now(whatever that may be). I can see many advantages to becoming an all pervading entity that lives too long.

If you read the article, what is scanned into the computer is all of you that is contained in your mind: your memories, your likes and dislikes, your presonality and everything that makes you, "you". Bear in mind also that the technology to accomplish all of this is already available but not sophisticated enough as yet to yield the results talked about in the article. However, given the exponential rate at which our scientific and technological knowledge has advanced just in the last 40-50 years, it is expected that the who enchilada will be available and a proven technology by the year 2030.

Again, folks, I can not emphasise enough the need to read the entire article in order to fully understand what we are discussing here. My thanks to all of you for showing enough interest in the topic to share your thoughts with me.

Originally posted by LordBaskettIV
Scanning yourself into a machine is not really living forever, but making a duplicate of your memorys ect at that specific moment. A better advancement would be slowly changing the body into a mechanical structure by slowly replacing every cell with nano machines that perform the same functions. This way, at some point your own brain will be the machine but you will keep all memorys and fore knowledge, unlike coyping yourself. Personaly, I believe this is how "god" was created. It probably started as some type of consiousness like ourselves trillions of years ago until it became what people think of it as now(whatever that may be). I can see many advantages to becoming an all pervading entity that lives too long.

If you read the article, what is scanned into the computer is all of you that is contained in your mind: your memories, your likes and dislikes, your presonality and everything that makes you, "you". Bear in mind also that the technology to accomplish all of this is already available but not sophisticated enough as yet to yield the results talked about in the article. However, given the exponential rate at which our scientific and technological knowledge has advanced just in the last 40-50 years, it is expected that the who enchilada will be available and a proven technology by the year 2030.

Again, folks, I can not emphasise enough the need to read the entire article in order to fully understand what we are discussing here. My thanks to all of you for showing enough interest in the topic to share your thoughts with me.

Ok so lets say we could download ourselves into a computer. In order for that to be anymore than a backup copy of 'ourselves' there would have to be other things as well.

A processor: do you really think the human mind can be reduced to simple commands of on/off directed towards different parts of memory? Or basic calculations and operations? How can you reasonably express emotions as an algorithim?

Don't forget that if we can download the brain, that means we've found a way to interface with the mind and express it's contents as something understandable to us. Likewise we would have the ability to manipulate it much like you could manipulate a program, by adding or manipulating the source code (if we couldn't then the copy of the brain would be useless, as we'd have no way to interact with it or have it interact with...absolutly anything). Do you know any programming languages? Imagine a super advanced, next generation object-oriented programming language. Imagine it's the offspring of java or C++ for simplicity. Wouldn't it have to be infinantly complex?

No I don't think that we'll be able to live forever by uploading ourselves into a machine because it is simply impossible to interface with a mind to that extent. Maybe one day we'll have a basic interface that will allow artificial limbs to be moved and controled like real limbs, that would be great, but even if we could develop a complete interface, nothing besides an organic processor (which is a brain isn't it?) could handle it.

Cheers

Futurists have been speculating for years about a merger between humanity, nanotech, and AI. The Deus Ex games portray a fictional representation of such a possibility.

Pretty cool IMO. Especially if each nanite contained our whole consciousness (all the data), we could essentially become shape-shifters. Not to mention, with increased processing power (which would be increasing exponentially), our knowledge and intelligence would be unimaginable. Also, we'd all be connected as if we are one organism, though without losing complete individuality. We're all basically the same anyway. It's our individual experiences throughout life that make us different.

We could essentially become gods. But then again, we already are like gods compared to say, ants.

question is too vague....live forever?
what kind of quality of life?

am i gonna have virtual brain cancer 'forever'? then nope.

if i am essentiall me as i am now, no cancer, then hell yeah.

let me live forever jack....i suppose i would rather be alive forever, than dead forever. i am not a believe in god and i think when you die, you rot so yeah, give me life.

least that way, i can still check stuff out, have sex, and finally get to retire to where i have always wanted to go, and do what i have always wanted to do.
thats my idea of heaven right thuuur.

I would not want to. What if a virus got into the computer? Who knows what
that might do to us.