A conservative guy with a few guns and rifles point of view on 911.

I don't agree with this guy's politics but he does make a strong case for rebellion.

We really have been lied to for some time now, on an even wider range of subjects than he mentions.

I believe a small percentage of what the government has told me. We have NASA saying there is no other intelligent life out there, our military tells us we are at war with a terrorist threat that needs every able bodied citizen to destroy it, our intelligence community is in cahoots with other countries, etc etc.

We have been a bought and paid for government for some time now. I think we're all about ready for some accountability.

A first step would be an abolition of the Republicrat and Demopublican parties. Let's keep it all small government from now on, all indepenent parties...

Or anarchy, I'm all down for that.

Yeah, what these guys said...

That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Well,

The guys has some thought's. Problem is now with the Pat act this guy is now a domestic terrorist. He is one of many. The many live in the ozarks and mountains and hills and backwoods. I hate to say it but all the people most make fun of and joke about on a daily basis are going to be the ones who come out and draw the front lines if a police state is ever declared. They are the real protectors of freedom. They are the people who have seperated the live wire from social standards and live off the land. The rednecks and hillbillies and swamprats are the people who are going to play a huge part in keeping this country from being over run from the inside.
This is why I laugh at talking heads on radio who shout the terrorist are coming and we have to fight them over there and the terrorist are "making a come back". I laugh because I know in the back of my mind that if terrorist started falling from the sky right now..Man I feel sorry for them...cause they have no idea what kinda hornets nest they would be falling into. Think about this for a second. This country had people who were and are still willing to kill people because of the color of their skin...And as much as I would love to say these people don't act or see things that way any more...No they are still here and it's a shame. And these people wanted to kill people because they didn't want people of color to have the same rights. Now if you can tell me that these "terrorist" are bad..I say blahhh. This country can be so evil that the terrorist have no idea what they would be getting into. Becuase for all of our short sided views and mis-understanding for other cultures and races we do now see things eye to eye within our self. And we all want to be free. And one day I'm afraid this great country is going to have to call on the people who live in our outcast of society to rise up and strike back with a evil that is so horrible that satan himself banish these people from entering hell.

For as long as we can, we must continue to use the Constitutional options passed on to us by the Founding Fathers. It's a gesture that is more important than you may realize. If we accept that one or more of the current crop of Federal-level politicians will push the nation to crisis, we must remain on the Constitutional path for as long as we can to PROVE t ourselves and to future genrerations that we were right and that our leaders...for whatever reasons they gave...were wrong.

This, to me, is the most real of conspiracies. What we say now and what we do now will set the tone for what the next generation thinks and does. If we seem reluctant to take harsh action, it must be so to ensure that our kinds and their grand children don't one day decide to do something rash that everyone who comes after them will have to pay for. If we really mean to be the moral high-grounders in this case, we're going to need patience and a willingness to document what happens to us.

Like it or not, we MUST continue to use the system thay may be failing us...until it has failed us. Like the revolutionaries of 1775, we need to make sure that "we" aren't the ones who break the pact that holds our nation together. We MUST be able to prove that it was "them" who made the crooked deals, cooked the books,and lied to their own advantage. If we fail to do this, we stand to be accused by future historians of making the same kinds of bad decisions that allowed our social and political elites to bring us to this crisis.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
We MUST be able to prove that it was "them" who made the crooked deals, cooked the books,and lied to their own advantage. If we fail to do this, we stand to be accused by future historians of making the same kinds of bad decisions that allowed our social and political elites to bring us to this crisis.

Justin, they've already made crooked deals, cooked the cooks, and lied in court hundreds of times. What will be the last straw?

We have the internet and books to document their criminal behavior. What we need now is a referendum removing the federal government from power. That is the only legal course of action.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Declaration of Independence


The politicians have steered our country away from the principles it was founded on. We must act now, before it is too late and we're all in FEMA Rex 84 death camps.

I'd like to see this guy run for public office, I'd probably vote for him assuming he had reasonable views on things like health care and such.

Now I don't see eye to eye with the guy on the whole 9/11 bit, but I completely agree with him on gun rights and the federal reserve. And although I don't completely agree with his proclamation of being conservative, he did at least mention that conservatives and liberals needed to come together on this.

In the meantime I'll be doing my part in the revolution by getting my ideas out, no need for violence these days.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Justin, they've already made crooked deals, cooked the cooks, and lied in court hundreds of times. What will be the last straw?

The proverbial last straw must be something that "they" do. We can't pre-emptively strike. Yes, we've documented what they've done so far, but there is a lot more to come. Very few of this think that we know how all of this plays out. The majority are not as yet aware. They don't know what "we" know. Eventually, they will.

Eventually, America's political and social elites will go too far. When that happens, the majority will look back to ask "what just happened?" They'll need to see every bit of that documentation and what we said about all the events that came before. If we were careful to avoid foaming at the mouth and ranting, they'll see the merits of our case and act accordingly.

Originally posted by ThichHeaded

Actually you are wrong on this.

The only reason people haven't gotten insanely crazy about overtaking the states or anywhere else is because of our right to bear arms.

If it wasn't for that 1 amendment we would all be screwed. I would like you to prove me wrong. I do believe that this to be true and the only reason the NWO or whoever hasn't killed the 80% of the population as they say they want to real bad.

On a nice food for thought.. What do you think will happen if they take the 2nd amendment from Americans? ya stir on that a second.. then you will have your answer. I can tell you now it wont be as easy as it was when the Aussie's gave up their right to bear arms. I can almost bet that. Hell I would bet my life on that one..

So think.. why haven't they taken over yet??? The Americans right to bear arms is the only reason I can come up with...

Ok, firstly - who exactly do you think is going to come after you? Obviously you cant think its going to be another country because America has one of the biggest armies with a whole lot of nuclear bombs as a back up. Plus there's the big fact that no other western country has been invaded regardless of thier gunlaw staus.

So you think its your government - seriously, what do you think your government is up to with regards to your control that no other western government has the slightest interest in? It hasnt happened anywhere else and isnt about to.

The only thing you can prevent by owning a gun is stop (hopefully) another man coming into your home with ill intent. The government dont need to do this to control you - they control your wages, they control your health system, they control every single aspect of your integration into the society you live in.

Plus, if there was a huge uprising, and hundreds of Americans with thier personally owned guns united to protest against the abolition to an extent that your government didnt think they could control without significant losses, then they would contact the UN, villify all of you as terrorists and call for international aid - which they would most certainly get as no other country that could give America significant aid shares your view that owning a firearm is a human right.

I'm not debating with you with you to change your view about guns, in an ideal world we would all be nice people, not at all interested in theft, dominance or hatred, but we are and so there will always be atrocious crimes excentuated by the presence of guns.

It seems to me the abolition of guns in America is absolutely inevitable and probably a good idea.

Originally posted by The Pinky Ponk
It seems to me the abolition of guns in America is absolutely inevitable and probably a good idea.

Well I hope I'm dead first because that doesn't sound very much like a free society.

It is our 2nd amendment right to bear arms. Have you forgotten about that piece of paper?

Its what makes us different from the rest of the world.

Every person has God-given rights. We can do what we want.

To take away a right that our country was founded upon is not patriotic or a good idea.

The reason we still have rights is because of guns. Without guns, the police could treat us how they wanted without repercussions. The government wouldn't need oversight (not that there is anyway) and the military could invade states it didn't like.

Guns=freedom

No guns=tyranny

Originally posted by tsloan
...with a evil that is so horrible that satan himself banish these people from entering hell.

Um, I seriously doubt that. If anything, Satan will have a welcoming committee. >_>

"It is our 2nd amendment right to bear arms. Have you forgotten about that piece of paper?"



But thats all it is - a piece of paper. Laws change with changing societies - unfortunately that means "rights" too. You are not free, you are only free in the terms of your society. It was once a law in Wales that you could only beat your wife with a stick the size of a thumbspan, nothing more. Times change, so do laws and what people deem to be rights.

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
For as long as we can, we must continue to use the Constitutional options passed on to us by the Founding Fathers. It's a gesture that is more important than you may realize...

Justin... how should we go about doing this? I agree with you. Completely. However, I'm at a loss as to how we, the People, can get this to happen. It seems that we've been asleep at the switch and 'they' have developed a significant momentum. What can we do?

I deeply respect his candor and the guts in making these statements.

I would at any time support a fight against the privateers who are the American Government.
I understand that the right to arms are very deep seeded in you, but I don't think that should be the reason for uprising. Everything else he said should have been a reason a long time ago.

Mind you, we still have a lot of european countries who still exercise the right of free speech without owning weapons, you can do the same.

Hail freedom from Denmark
and deliver the Americans from the terrorists who control their governement!

Originally posted by The Pinky Ponk
But thats all it is - a piece of paper. Laws change with changing societies - unfortunately that means "rights" too. You are not free, you are only free in the terms of your society. It was once a law in Wales that you could only beat your wife with a stick the size of a thumbspan, nothing more. Times change, so do laws and what people deem to be rights.

Ok you can give up your right to bear arms while I firmly stand by my God-given right. I will shoot on sight anyone who tries to take them away from me.

No, rights do not change with changing societies. That is not freedom. Rights are what they are, society evolves around those rights.

I am free because I act like I'm free. I hold no allegiance to 'king' or 'country.' I simply am.

You can lay down your arms and you will be one of the first sent to the prison camps courtesy of FEMA, while I among others wait patiently in the trenches for the powers that be to find us. Locked and loaded.

[edit on 18-7-2007 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by The Pinky Ponk
"It is our 2nd amendment right to bear arms. Have you forgotten about that piece of paper?"

But thats all it is - a piece of paper. Laws change with changing societies - unfortunately that means "rights" too. You are not free, you are only free in the terms of your society. It was once a law in Wales that you could only beat your wife with a stick the size of a thumbspan, nothing more. Times change, so do laws and what people deem to be rights.

Bad example Pinky. There have always been bad laws and always will be. The law you cite was not part of Wales Constitution, were they? The right to abridge another individual's rights (in this case, by virtue of being allowed to beat one's wife) cannot be a part of any free society. The right to bear arms affords the People the ability to resist tyranny. To some, apparently including yourself, the need to defend ourselves is anachronistic and unnecessary. If we all were to lose those rights the cost would be unbearably high to us if the decision was wrong. The 2nd amendment does not give me the right to kill anyone. It was designed to protect us from a tyranical government. Personally, I think the 2nd amendment is anything BUT anachronistic at this point in history. It may prove to be essential to our very survival as a nation.

He's a pretty good guy for doing this, making his video and trying to get the word out and stuff.

The things he have said, have been running in my mind for sometime now, even before ATS, i've grew up listening to my history teachers/instructors saying things like this and when we grow up we will find out more about the "Truth"

All in all. something must be done and i support myself and support this guy.

now. the media can totally make him look like a nut if they wanted to and we'll already know whats down with that if they do so.

as far as the flag and guns..isn't that how the United States of America beginning was? we fought with our guns and raised our flags?

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
The proverbial last straw must be something that "they" do. We can't pre-emptively strike. Eventually, America's political and social elites will go too far. If we were careful to avoid foaming at the mouth and ranting, they'll see the merits of our case and act accordingly.

I agree with you that something needs to be done in a civilized way. However, I believe that using the methods set forth by today's standard of petitions will never work.

We can not muster enough public support to warrant Washinton's attention. Most Americans will continue to abide by this countries downward spiral until it hits rock bottom and by that time it'll be too late. Anarchy wil ensue.

If no one is willing to stand up and unite all that agree and organize an effort that can no longer be ignored, or stage an event to bring national attention to this cause, it'll never come about. The time has to be now because rock bottom isn't too far down the road.

Originally posted by SonicInfinity

Originally posted by tsloan
...with a evil that is so horrible that satan himself banish these people from entering hell.

Um, I seriously doubt that. If anything, Satan will have a welcoming committee. >_>

I guess since you have been to hell and had a first hand check list on "satans" wants and needs that gives you great insite on the fact that what I tippy typed on the screen was a figurative statement?

Originally posted by jtma508
Times change, so do laws and what people deem to be rights.

Right. And it looks like we're seeing the start of a major change again. Even if most people just sit back and watch it happen, it only takes a small active percentage of the whole population, and that's all it's ever taken historically.

Right. And it looks like we're seeing the start of a major change again. Even if most people just sit back and watch it happen, it only takes a small active percentage of the whole population, and that's all it's ever taken historically.

Thats true, and standing up for what we believe in should always be a right that we exercise whenever we feel our rights comprimised.

Good luck. The abolition of guns is something i agree with as it seems the lesser of two evils to me so its your fight on that but dont get me wrong, there are a lot of things that guy said i totally agree with.