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Belief vs. Unbelief Slugfest!

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posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by aarbrock
I am actually on the internet trying to find illustrations for a lesson involving belief vs. unbelief in God. I'm a devout Christian, and I'm actually Worship Leader at my church. I think a large problem with today's Christians is that some of us are very abrasive. We push God on people until it makes them hate Him (and us), and we end up with boards like these (although this one is extremely mild-mannered). There IS no reason to argue about religion. None. We are all entitled to our own beliefs...that's what makes America great. Is Christianity pushed? You better believe it. Do I tell people about God's saving grace and love? Absolutely. My experiences with it are amazing, and there's nothing in the world that I would trade my relationship with Him for. It just hurts me to see the damage that some Christians have actually done by TRYING to tell people about God. My viewpoint is that I hope the people I talk to will listen. If they do, it's an opportunity. If they don't, it's their choice and it's my obligation to respect their requests. They didn't ask for me to talk to them about Jesus. If they don't want to hear it, they have that right. I just hope this board doesn't turn into a God-basher being a Christian doesn't mean shoving God down someone's throat. It means setting an example through the way you live. Then, people ask questions about why you're so optimistic in bad situations, or how you can smile when you just lost your wife. God's been amazing to me, and I know some of you don't even believe in God...and that's okay. It's not my decision to choose your beliefs. I do pray that your eyes will be opened to the awesomeness that I've been given, but if that doesn't happen, I am not entitled to shove it down your throat until you do.

God bless all of you. I will probably only get back on this board to see what kind of comments I get back, but more than likely, I won't reply.


I actually think you are trying to live a true Christian lifestyle by not prejudging and doing unto others etc. So you would be the type of Christian that I could discuss things with. Realizing it is the Christian way to spread the word I do not find it offensive when someone tries to do so, provided when I tell them I have my own beliefs and am not interested they let the matter drop right then and there. I personally dont deny truth in any belief system I believe each person has to find there own way of dealing with the world. For some it is science and for some it will be a faith system to me all are equally valid.




posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 07:47 AM
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Okay, Lord forgive me....I guess I lied.

I ran across this illustration, and I think it basically covers accepting Christ in a nutshell.

A man was lost in the desert and was near death for lack of water. Soon he came across a pump with a canteen hung on the handle and a note. The note read as follows: "Below you is all the fresh water you could ever need, and the canteen contains exactly enough water to prime the pump."

It's hard to say what you would do. Common sense says, "USE IT FOR THE PUMP, YOU MORON!" But who's to say that the letter is real? Who's to say that if you use all of the water to prime the pump, that it won't work, and then you die there, having had the water you needed in your hands?

That's why it's called FAITH, meaning fidelity to and belief in something. Have I ever seen God? No. Have I ever sat and drank coffee with Him? Nope. (Don't think I would either, I HATE COFFEE).

Basically, there's 3 groups involved with the PUMP story.

1. Some absolutely refuse it.
2. Some are believe, but are hesitant.
3. Some accept it.

I know what group I'm in, and you all know what group you're in. Just trying to provoke some thought, but I have to go to work.

Have a blessed day.



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 05:29 AM
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Originally posted by aarbrock
A man was lost in the desert and was near death for lack of water. Soon he came across a pump with a canteen hung on the handle and a note. The note read as follows: "Below you is all the fresh water you could ever need, and the canteen contains exactly enough water to prime the pump."


What if the man can't read or doesn't speak english?

[edit on 21-7-2007 by DarkSide]



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 08:12 AM
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Or what if the pump is only a mirage?



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 11:15 AM
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It is an analogy, folks. An example of faith. Trusting that there is indeed water down below. I, too, know which one I belong to. Whether or not you do is, of course, your choice, and I would never infringe upon that. That's one of the gifts God gave us: Free choice.



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 11:32 AM
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I agree with you seagull. It's an analogy to indicate faith. I have faith, too. Just not in the same things that some others do. A lot of what we deal with in life requires faith. Marriage to name just one.

My point is, religious folks haven't cornered the market on faith. They have faith in God maybe, but that's not by any means the only thing to have faith in in this life.


I like the well analogy and it can be applied to many things in life.



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 11:46 AM
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Howdy, BH. Been a while since we've chatted...

Faith comes in many shapes and forms. The one common thread of those multitudinous faiths is the ability of faith to keep us going through the bad times as well as the good...our faith is never challenged so much as during the bad.

I suppose what I'm saying is if it gets you through the bad, and makes you appreciate the good, who cares what you call it.


Here's the rant.

I've gotten really tired of the self righteousness of both sides of this argument. The more extreme members seem to think the other is evil incarnate. Gets really old... As a reformed agnostic, I've been on both sides of this divide, so I know it can be crossed. I'm not here to proselytize, my faith is my own. I've no business preaching it to others, but conversely, neither do others have the right to ridicule.

Don't get me wrong I enjoy a good argument/discussion as much as the next person, but this topic is a little to near the quick for me. So I'll bow out before I say something truely regrettable, because I like most all of you
.



posted on Jul, 21 2007 @ 12:11 PM
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Originally posted by seagull
Howdy, BH. Been a while since we've chatted...


Yes, it's good to see you, friend.




The one common thread of those multitudinous faiths is the ability of faith to keep us going through the bad times as well as the good...


Agreed. Many times, during the earlier stages of my marriage, my faith in love, in my husband and in myself brought me through some terrible times.



I've gotten really tired of the self righteousness of both sides of this argument.


Yeah, me too. And I've mentioned it several times. One "side" trying so hard to convince the other that they're "wrong" is a waste of time in these matters, not to mention disrespectful, in my opinion.



I've been on both sides of this divide, so I know it can be crossed.


And as a reformed Christian, I am aware that it can be crossed as well, but it's going to be through SELF-search and one's own curiosity and not through "pestering" by "the other side".




I like most all of you
.


Rest assured, the feeling's mutual.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 12:51 PM
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I suppose what I'm saying is if it gets you through the bad, and makes you appreciate the good, who cares what you call it.


Yes since the beginning, man has had the need to try and control fate, looking to a higher power to end a drought, make it rain, win the lottery, find the perfect mate, win a war,

When we are feeling out of control, hopeless and desperate, and all else fails, we need to feel there is one last place to turn, so we try to manipulate the circumstances, sigh

Comfort, the holy spirit was called the comforter, there is a place of peace one can find within oneself when we need this comforting,it is odd, when my faith was strong I could handle any situation without fear because I had a comforter that watched over me and kept me safe.



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 03:48 PM
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But what about those of us who get through the bad times not with god but with therapy, or chatting on the internet? Is faith necessary?



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 04:03 PM
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MajorM, I can't answer that question because I don't walk in your shoes, although at times I have very little faith, and do understand where you are coming from.

I think there is a place beyond organized religious beliefs, where you can find peace, and strength within yourself.

I like to think of us humans like we are spiritual beings having an earthly experience, otherwise the whole thing seems pointless, for example, look at what great minds have accomplished, to what end?



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 04:06 PM
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I think that is why people feel the need to believe in an afterlife, in a nutshell.

If there's nothing after, what is the point?

Well, in my own opinion, the only reason there has to be a point is because our brains crave one. I don't think animals or plants need there to be a point.

I don't think there IS a point to life. It just is. What you make of it here and now is all that matters because even if there was something after you die, you don't get to come back and tell people. So what's the point of that?



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 05:08 PM
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If there's nothing after, what is the point?


Yes basically it is the wondering, why?

That's what makes us human, it is not just why are we here, but many other whys,

Why do scientist wonder why this, and why that? Is there a creative force that fills our imagination then leads us to discoveries? Are we co-creators, and gods in progress?

Contemplation, imagination, curiosity, we all post here to understand something as to why, don't you think? We are still searching for answers.

Since as far back as recorded history has there ever been a culture that didn't believe in the great mystery?

That might be a good topic. Also what could be the new religion?

[edit on 22-7-2007 by Stormdancer777]

[edit on 22-7-2007 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Jul, 22 2007 @ 05:15 PM
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What you make of it here and now is all that matters because even if there was something after you die, you don't get to come back and tell people. So what's the point of that?


That's a great question, what's the point of not coming back to tell?

Well that would ruin the lesson for the rest of us, maybe.



posted on Jul, 23 2007 @ 11:39 AM
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MM. We get through our travails in our own ways, and faith comes in many shapes and colors, faith in freinds (a good thing, IMHO
), faith in God, faith in a spiritual guide, whatever I, you, we call it. None of it is a bad thing. We all march to our own drummer...nothing bad in that if it works.

I was where you are now, I professed to disbelief, until events told me otherwise, so I understand where you're comng from...I will never ridicule you or others who disbelieve, I may disagree, but mock? Never. All I ask in return is the same concideration.



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 11:25 AM
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I think what seagull says is true. I had disblief too. After life shown me different I came to believe different. But we have to remember that there are those that wont believe. waste words and giving pearls to swain wont do nothing. We give are gifts to those who will here and save souls. Life with works mean nothings you must have both.



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 11:29 AM
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Prove there's such a thing as a soul, slymattb. Then maybe I'll listen to you.

Have you any concrete evidence there is such a thing? Or just the word of your church and the bible?



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by MajorMalfunction
Prove there's such a thing as a soul, slymattb. Then maybe I'll listen to you.



Have you any concrete evidence there is such a thing? Or just the word of your church and the bible?


Why waste words. You wont believe nor will you ever. Just remember nor can you disprove my beliefs. And I dont go to church. I dont really hang around a whole bunch of christians. Life experence will show the truth. You blind yourself not to see what around you. Look around then you will see. But there is much more than that.



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 12:06 PM
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unbelief challenge for this slugfest for believers:

why do you not believe in:
A
A'as
A'ra
A-a
Aa Maakhuer
Aabit
Aaghu Gugu
Aah
Aahmes Nefertari
Aakuluujjusi
Aasith
Aatxe
Ab Kin Xoc
Aba katun Baikal
Abaangui
Abaasy
Abaddon
Abandinus
Abarta
Abassi
Abat[t]ur
Abeguwo
Abello
Abeona
Abere
Abgal
Abgal
Abhijit
Abhijnaraja
Abhiyoga
Abira
Abnona
Abora
Abowie
Abraxas
Abu
Abuk
Abundita
Abziu
Acala
Acat
Acaviser
Acca
Acca Larentia
Accasbel
Acchupta
Acco
Achelois
Achelous
Achiyalatopa
Achlae
Achtland
Aclla
Acna
Acolmiztli
Acolnahuacatl
Acoran Gran Canary
Adad
or any other deity on this list?



posted on Jul, 24 2007 @ 12:27 PM
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Originally posted by slymattb

Why waste words. You wont believe nor will you ever. Just remember nor can you disprove my beliefs. ... Life experence will show the truth. You blind yourself not to see what around you. Look around then you will see. But there is much more than that.


No, I actually see the world very clearly. I just don't see a god, because there isn't one. Religion is a crutch for some people who can't face the fact that life is impersonal and that they don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

I'm content to just live in this world without pretending there is something else somewhere else.

There is no proof or evidence of god that fits a scientific paradigm. That tells me that he doesn't exist. It is highly more probable that there is no god than that there is a god using scientific method.

So, no I can't prove there is no god. But you have no proof that there is one, other than your brainwashing and your bible. Neither of which are actual evidence of anything but that other people are brainwashed too.



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