Plane carrying 170 crashes in São Paulo

It's really bad, if it was indeed only due to the condition of the runway. If that was really such an issue, clearance to land shouldn't be given.

Such a basic issue though, reminds me of the Lockerbie disaster, basically caused from an issue of saving money from less than good procedure.

It seems to be an epidemic...

BOGOTA, Colombia (AP) - A plane carrying 59 people skidded off a wet runway and into the Caribbean Sea in Colombia, causing minor injuries to seven, aviation officials said.

www.breitbart.com...

This trend is a bit disturbing.



[edit on 18/7/2007 by Mirthful Me]

Yeah, such developments make me want to suspend any trips to South America indefinately...which is a shame, it's such a nice continent...

it's really is a sad day here in porto alegre. I'm now searching my orkut to see if any people from that list is related to me somehow, i'm scared because 4 or 5 nomes of that list sound so familiar to me, but maybe it's just the "familiar thing". We had a big national airport crisis going on not long ago, air traffic controllers got pissed with the government and the military since the september 29th 2006 air accident (the collision between a Embraer Legacy 600 jet with a Gol Airlines 737-800 Flight 1907 in the amazon jungle resulting in 154 people dead) they were pissed at the government about their work conditions and they were pissed at the military for taking control of everything their way. That acident was the firestarter for all the crisis we've been through. and still, there are specific days you can see lots of people pratically camping at the airports due to another unexpected crisis. I think 2 months ago it happened again. And now around 200 people died because of some stupidity like an unfinished-runway... if people were stressed and afraid before about the ongoing crisis, now they got an titanic reason to be even more: the lack of organization\security\safety on our owns airports. Even the airport itself is so crowded that scares you sometime, all those planes together one next to each other like they were made of paper and there's no danger and leaving'em so close to each other, instead of proper organization. it's a shame but here on brazil these things goes like " ok if it works or if it's in shape then it's cool, why bother with the rest?" *right* a.k.a unprofessional lazyness. I'm sorry for it, but welcome to the jungle

[edit on 18-7-2007 by Renan]

Renan, sounds like Brazil and maybe South America in general is going to have to learn the hard way to do air travel right, because no one is going to want to travel there anymore if there are no assurances that they are going to come back alive!

From what I hear all 186 people aboard are dead plus 12 confirmed dead on the ground with like another 15 missing.

Truly a catastrophe.

And yes, seemingly due to the airport conditions, not the plane.

I have flown in and out of the Congonhas Airport in Sao Paulo several times. That runway in particular is problematic as it is a very short runway for such large jets. Rain only makes things worse.

That being said, I would still fly in Brasil and this accident does not deter me. Every day people die in car crashes around the globe, yet we all head out on the road despite this. Statistically, Air travel is far safer than car travel.

Brasil has had a fair number of air traffic problems, and perhaps this tragedy will result in some improvements.

Rather than point the finger of blame, I prefer to offer my condolences to the families of those who didn't arrive at their intended destination.

just to add an update on this story. a video taken appears to show that the crashed plane was traveling at an excessive speed. the plane on the same runway before it covered the distance in 11 seconds whilst the crashed plane covered the same distance in just 3

story here - news.bbc.co.uk...

The pilot was trying to go up again, but didn't had enough power and time to do it, should had hit the breaks and reversed instead i think..

there's an article on brazil's newspaper (zero hora) saying today that there were more 4 accidents on that same runway, 2 of them evolving a boeing 737 from Gol, yeah i think we got their attention now

New footage shows the plane just seconds before it crashed. It seems like it was going too fast. They speculate that the pilot might have tried to abort the landing.

Was the runway wet from rain? What a shame this happened. May their souls rest in peace.

The black box information should confirm if the pilot was appraching too fast I hope.

[edit on 19/7/2007 by deaman88]

Originally posted by deaman88
Was the runway wet from rain?

Yes, they have had heavy rain on that area for some days, and the runway was not completed after the last works were done, they did not made the perpendicular grooves on the runway that help to avoid the sliding of the wheels on the wet surface.

Hold that thought...

Originally posted by jra
So no, I don't believe it's pilot error Mirthful Me (or anything to do with it being an Airbus like some one suggested). Seems more like a bone headed business management error in my opinion.

Experts puzzled Thursday over why a jetliner raced down a runway instead of slowing down before it crashed in a fireball that killed 189 people — an accident that set off a fierce debate over whether to close Brazil's busiest airport.

Security video released by the air force showed TAM Flight 3054 speeding down the tarmac more than four times as fast as other planes landing around the same time. That raised the possibility of pilot or mechanical error instead of a slick and short runway widely cited as a likely cause.

www.sfgate.com.../n/a/2007/07/19/international/i150203D09.DTL

The final assessment will be a long time coming, but this may indicate it was in fact... Pilot error. There can be no argument that a variety of factors contributed to this accident, and a long hard look at future of this airport and which aircraft can service it is sorely needed.

Originally posted by Mirthful Me
The final assessment will be a long time coming, but this may indicate it was in fact... Pilot error. There can be no argument that a variety of factors contributed to this accident, and a long hard look at future of this airport and which aircraft can service it is sorely needed.

I agree, it definitely seems like it was a verity of things that caused this. Basically no one person is solely to blame for this.

Originally posted by uberarcanist
So, somewhere around 150 people died because of a crappy runway...nice. Who's up for a tourism boycott of Brazil?

Is it possible that the local wind conditions could have changed in such a way as to amplify the effects of the runway? Also, if it was pilot error, it may be like the Toronto crash two years ago, maybe the pilot did not deploy the thrust reversers in time?

Amazing, I said that about the thrust reversers and look (while I am linking another thread, I perhaps shouldn't) here.

The fact that they were turned faulty, is surprising, though IIRC in the Toronto crash the pilot was holding onto the engine thrust levers, preventing use of them. That they could have thought waiting for ten days with something as critical as the brakes, is disgusting.

Tam Airlines' comments came after Brazil's Globo TV said a problem with the right thrust reverser had emerged four days before the crash.

Tam said Airbus's own manual says an inspection can be done up to 10 days after it is first detected and that the plane can continue to operate in the meantime.

Wait, I just reread, I misread it the first time. AIRBUS said it could operate for ten days like that!!??

[edit on 20-7-2007 by apex]

Originally posted by apex
Wait, I just reread, I misread it the first time. AIRBUS said it could operate for ten days like that!!??

They also say that the fact that one of thrust reversers is not working adds around 55 metres to the landing distance on a wet runway.

I have seen only today the images of the plane running along the runway at high speed. At the speed it was moving it must have touched the ground at a higher velocity than it should, but this is only the opinion of someone that does not really know nothing about that.

Fair enough, but it depends on how wet the runway is, surely? And when they are activated? It can't be helpful at least, particularly not when 737s aren't allowed to land there in those conditions, while the A320 can? Even if it has a shorter theoretical landing distance, in those conditions it can't be too easy to do it right.

Flights between Sao Paulo and US were halted today after a radar breakdown in northern Brazil. And they mistakenly sent a piece of the plane's fuselage instead of the flight recorder to the US for analysis. The real flight recorder has now been recovered.


BBC: Brazil radar fault stops flights

Hi , i´ve got a question , why would the black box(flight recorder) be send to the US? It was a national fligth from a national airplane company inside Brasil?
There´s serveral ufo sightings around that airport, and they say that we will believe in what they say us to believe.
Tam would not accept the guilty from crash(as it happened berfore) so fast(only to confort the families and to make then to stop asking questions), it would try to make infra-aero or the airport guilty because the road conditions.
And there were serveral politicians in that plane. From sindicates and so on, so i can´t believe that it´s just a simple crash, human or hardware fail....
"They will say what we will have to and will believe!"


[edit on 25-7-2007 by xirtan]