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Are we Living in a Simulated universe?

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posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 08:00 AM
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Excellent topic - although id like to draw your attention to this thread.

As for whether we do live in a simulated world -that requires that we first reach an accepted definition of reality. Anyone?

Does the fact that we live in the universe we inhabit, interact with it and believe it to be real make it adequate to be considered 'real' regardless of its true state? If this is not 'real' what would reality be?

[edit on 28-7-2007 by ScriptKiddie]




posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 11:07 AM
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www.earthportals.com...

Does Objective Reality Exist, or is the Universe a Phantasm?

In 1982 a remarkable event took place. At the University of Paris a research team led by physicist Alain Aspect performed what may turn out to be one of the most important experiments of the 20th century. You did not hear about it on the evening news. In fact, unless you are in the habit of reading scientific journals you probably have never even heard Aspect's name, though there are some who believe his discovery may change the face of science.

Aspect and his team discovered that under certain circumstances subatomic particles such as electrons are able to instantaneously communicate with each other regardless of the distance separating them. It doesn't matter whether they are 10 feet or 10 billion miles apart.

Somehow each particle always seems to know what the other is doing. The problem with this feat is that it violates Einstein's long-held tenet that no communication can travel faster than the speed of light. Since traveling faster than the speed of light is tantamount to breaking the time barrier, this daunting prospect has caused some physicists to try to come up with elaborate ways to explain away Aspect's findings. But it has inspired others to offer even more radical explanations.



University of London physicist David Bohm, for example, believes Aspect's findings imply that objective reality does not exist, that despite its apparent solidity the universe is at heart a phantasm, a gigantic and splendidly detailed hologram.




posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 01:53 PM
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this is an old experiment known about it for a long time .. there has to be some faster than light inivisble force connecting them that we just dont know about .... great for faster than light communication. turn em left for dot , right for dash .. and u have a faster than light morse code communication system mmm sweet.

and ty for your contribution script but i hope this thread is slighlty more evolved than a poster saying we live in a computer game because he saw a tail light flash? aint that what tail lights do?... i have attempted to put some logical reasoning behind my post .

oh and to answer your question 'Reality' is where the Real Universe/Multiverse resides, the original.

but if ours is a simulation it is still 'reality' for Us..or at least reality as we know it.


and i am sorry einstien you were very clever but they said the world was flat ,when cars first appeared that going over a certain speed would crush you to death (over 30mph i think lol), the fuel to weight ratio would never allow us to get to the moon and the sound barrier would never be broken...

its only a matter of time.

[edit on 28-7-2007 by Quantum_Squirrel]



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 08:09 PM
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This is a fantastic thread, Thank you Quantum Squirrel!!

To take your 'simulated reality' and extrapolate would mean there are an infinite number of 'simulated realities' would it not?
That argument does rely on the fact that someone somewhere at some point could simulate conciousness.

We already have quite staggering computer models of small parts of our universe. At what point do they inherit a 'reality' or conciousness? I think that is the stumbling block for the argument.

I'm guessing you are aware of David Bohm?



posted on Jul, 28 2007 @ 08:42 PM
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AHHH! What IS real anymore!

According to your theory(Which is totaly plausable in my book) nothing is real, and everything is a simulation. Maybe when we die, the real reality will show itself. Life is nothing but a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves. Thanks to TOOL for that insightful lyric. Scary to think about!

Im more crazy again!



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 03:26 AM
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Originally posted by myowncrusade
This is a fantastic thread, Thank you Quantum Squirrel!!

To take your 'simulated reality' and extrapolate would mean there are an infinite number of 'simulated realities' would it not?


correct sir and because their would be an infintely more amount of simulate ones the mathmatical odds of ours beings one of these simulations increases dramatically.




That argument does rely on the fact that someone somewhere at some point could simulate conciousness.



yes it does, i stated this in the original post but thats a whole different discussion
i dont doubt that computers at some point will have the power to do this .. however can a persons 'Soul' (if we have them) be simulated by a machine ..again thats another thread this post asumes that it can as stated.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 11:24 AM
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Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
yes it does, i stated this in the original post but thats a whole different discussion
i dont doubt that computers at some point will have the power to do this .. however can a persons 'Soul' (if we have them) be simulated by a machine ..again thats another thread this post asumes that it can as stated.


What do you think the soul is? The ''thing'' that makes us think the way we do and makes us ''act'' the way we do?
If that is the case, then a soul is nothing more than an ''advanced'' written personality file.
Which, if this superadvanced civilization is capable of simulating worlds, would be no problem for "them".

You could even think of this as a superadvanced version of "Spore", the game. lol

[edit on 29/7/07 by -0mega-]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by -0mega-
What do you think the soul is? The ''thing'' that makes us think the way we do and makes us ''act'' the way we do?
If that is the case, then a soul is nothing more than an ''advanced'' written personality file.
Which, if this superadvanced civilization is capable of simulating worlds, would be no problem for "them".

You could even think of this as a superadvanced version of "Spore", the game. lol

i agree with you entirely i think if powerfull enough the computer could simulate any process .. i threw in the 'soul' thing to appease the masses .. i personally dont believe in the atypical soul idea.

[edit on 29-7-2007 by Quantum_Squirrel]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 03:15 PM
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I've been waiting for a thread like this for a long time.

I'm quite convinced this world is not "the real world". But before I say anymore, I am curious, Quantum, do you have children ?



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 03:30 PM
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Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel
Its argued that no civilization in any of the universes are likely to acheive this point of stupendous computanional power..


Some may argue that, but to me, those are pretty arrogant, smug, morons.

hahaha, I would actually, personally, beg to different the exact opposite.

I would guess, that in the nearly infinite expanses of just our universe and time line, that there are civilizations far more advanced that would make our greatest technology, and near future technology seem like gas tubes and child's play.

I have even begun to entertain the theory, that past civilizations may have existed in our past that were more advanced than we currently are ... by some of the evidence I have read lately of some rather advanced warfare and metalwork found in coal and other ancient rock.

I fully understand what you are trying to say, and it could be possible. It is all the matrix, take the red pill and be neo


Seriously, the more I think about things, the more I sit back in awe of how truly anything is possible in every way.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by amideluded
I've been waiting for a thread like this for a long time.

I'm quite convinced this world is not "the real world". But before I say anymore, I am curious, Quantum, do you have children ?


o..k slightly worried by that question as u registered like today .... but seen as i am realtively new myself .. i will

yes i do have kids and simulated feelings or not am grateful for them


[edit on 29-7-2007 by Quantum_Squirrel]



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Quantum_Squirrel

Originally posted by amideluded
I've been waiting for a thread like this for a long time.

I'm quite convinced this world is not "the real world". But before I say anymore, I am curious, Quantum, do you have children ?


o..k slightly worried by that question as u registered like today .... but seen as i am realtively new myself .. i will

yes i do have kids and simulated feelings or not am grateful for them


[edit on 29-7-2007 by Quantum_Squirrel]


I registered today because I didn't know my previous user name or password. I tried the "forgotten password" route, but ATS doesn't seem to have considered that a user may also forget the user name as well as their password.

As for being slightly worried, don't be. There's a point to my madness, and it will be forthcoming.

I too have children. My bond to them is stronger than anything imaginable. I would terminate all existence to protect them, as well as spend eternity dying horrific deaths to ensure their happiness.

So, on to why I ask such a question: As mentioned, I have been waiting for a thread like this. I wondered if I was the only person to have opened pandora's box, peeked inside, and come to the scariest conclusion, that my children are probably NOT real, neither is my wife, mother, father, brother, sister, and neither are you.

Having said that, I prefer your thinking over mine. In the scenario you posted, my children are as real as me, we're both SIMULATIONS. In the scenario I imagined, I am real, but I'm a lab rat, and all of this, EVERYTHING, is here to test me; to see if I break, get a nervous breakdown, jump off a bridge, or, go the other way, meaning, I make a determination that I am superman, I can walk on water, fly through the air, etc.

So, in this simulated world, I think I can love my children just as much as any real being could love any other real being in a real world. In this simulated world, emotions are likely modeled after emotions in the real world. I think I could live with that.

One thing I am sure of, this world, whatever it is, is manipulated by forces foreign to this world. For me, this is not opinion, but fact. I still think I am a lab rat, but as mentioned, I could live peacefully believing in your scenario, which makes us all lab rats, and I am not alone.



posted on Jul, 29 2007 @ 06:57 PM
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Originally posted by amideluded


I too have children. My bond to them is stronger than anything imaginable. I would terminate all existence to protect them, as well as spend eternity dying horrific deaths to ensure their happiness.


amen to that!!!

If the simulation was constantly tweaked we should notice, so i would like to speculate that it is a free running and evolving simulation were a healthy spattering of free will is involved.

one thing to remember you are not the lab rat, the universe is the experiment and you are a free flowing component within the program.

And take solice in the fact that the very notion of a universeal computer (often called a turing machine) .
Turing machine info

is that it can simulate any other universal computer and that the fake is just as rich as the actual reality. to bring it into a perspective a Mac can simulate a PC ..and vice versa. if you wernt told you were using a MAC running as a PC how would u ever know ? this dosnt make it less real than a mac it just makes it AS real as a PC.



The Computer World transcends the virtual world it simulates, If we and the world we percieve, are the creation of an elaborate machine processing vast amounts of information, then we are no more capable of apprehending this transcendant simulating system than a computer program is capable of knowing what type of computer it is running on. Software and hardware belong to different universes, or at least to different conceptual levels. That is why we dont 'Feel' our brains - we are not aware of them - even tho we live inside them. - quote paul davies


So yours, mines and everyone elses kids are as real as it gets


I hope i am making some sense here sometimes the rabbit hole is so deep i get lost myself thinking about it.

[edit on 29-7-2007 by Quantum_Squirrel]



posted on Aug, 10 2007 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by IMAdamnALIEN
...Life is nothing but a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves...


Here's John with the weather...



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 09:54 AM
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Quantum_Squirrel,

Questions:

How would explain deja vu in terms of a simulated universe theory?

is it a 'glitch in the matrix' or is something else?

are we collectively creating this simulation, or is there something 'higher' that creates/maintains it?



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by quintar
Quantum_Squirrel,

Questions:

How would explain deja vu in terms of a simulated universe theory?

is it a 'glitch in the matrix' or is something else?

are we collectively creating this simulation, or is there something 'higher' that creates/maintains it?



deja vu

some people say deja vu is because the brain see's more frames per second than the eye .. so it possible for your brain to see something before your eyes do making u think you have seen it all before...

or.....

you just think u have been there and done it before when infact you have only seen and done something/ been somewhere extremely similar....

or......

remember the double slit expeiment? well theres another double slit experiment where the observing device is put behind the screens that the electrons impact on, the screens are converted into a venetian blind type screen ..now theres no way the electron can know if the screen will be open and thus the observer effect taking place before it actually gets through the slits. but guess what ...it does know the obsever is there and chooses which slit to go through...

disturbing indeed that means the electron knows 'in advance' that it is going to be observed before it even passes the measuring device. this has all sorts of implications into backwards causality and/or is everything allready written?... maybe some type of this effect could accounts for deja vu ...

..........

With regards to the simualtion in this theory we are not creating the simulation the super computer is .. however we may (in my opinion we DO) create and change reality as we know it around us. However looking back at the above mentioned dbl slit expirement maybe the whole simulation is decided by the computer program and THIS is why the electron knows in advance.


there has only ever been ..and this is a maybe, one 'glitch in the matrix' about 6 billion years ago the weak elctromagnetic force seems to have been adjusted with what scientist can work out today. proof of somebody turning the dial to fine tune our simualtion? who knows..


on a totaly unrelated point .. is that avatar a pic of you and if so have u been in any films? this is a serious question btw
.. i think i recognise your avatar.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 10:33 AM
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No, that is not me


I think I just looked for 'conspiracy' under google images.



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 11:22 AM
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Originally posted by quintar
No, that is not me


I think I just looked for 'conspiracy' under google images.


oh my didnt mean to make you remove it lol no harm meant ...

anyway my last lengthy post any thoughts? answer any of your questions even slightly?



posted on Aug, 13 2007 @ 06:55 PM
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Interesting topic, thanks for posting...

There is an excellent sci-fi film that touches on the heart of this subject.

The Thirteenth Floor

Has a great story that deals with simulated universes, deja-vu, and the shock of what is and isn't real. Nice film and Gretchen Mol is real cute.

Personally I subscribe to the earth as a more insignificant place that holds no multi-dimentional existances that WE will ever know in our little ripple in the big cosmic pond.

And here is the Wikipedia Article on "Simulated Reality", has plenty of information and links.

I suppose we have "sim" and "tycoon" pc games, but the nearset to a real simulated universe is probably a military project..........maybe that's what we all are





posted on Aug, 17 2007 @ 01:18 PM
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But now it seems quite possible. In fact, if you accept a pretty reasonable assumption of Dr. Bostrom’s, it is almost a mathematical certainty that we are living in someone else’s computer simulation.


www.nytimes.com...

I just found this thread. I started another thread earlier today based on the link I just posted.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

Very interesting stuff to contemplate.



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