The Douglas Bader Mystery

Originally posted by merkej23
reply to post by waynos

 

Nice thread though, makes a man think

edit on 14-4-2012 by merkej23 because: more info added

would have done if you had bothered to read it.................................

What is important with this thread is to separate absolute facts (eg baders capture, and liberation from colditz) from other spurious information such as the Dyce JU88 which, though real, has no bearing on the story and all the other speculation and hearsay which is presented as fact.

As we saw the statement that the JU88 "was tracked by radar up the east coast" was supposition as was the presumption that regular flights into Dyce were made by German aircraft. There are good sources that counter such theories and show them to be more speculative than factual. This analysis is useful in removing some of the implied conspiracy theory.

If the Dyce JU88 *had* been tracked up the coast, the inference is that this was pre arranged or in the knowledge of the British authorities - whereas the more likely fact that the aircraft flew directly across the north sea to Scotland from Norway and thus never went anywhere near the east coast or was tracked until it popped up on the Scottish radar cover following which it was intercepted puts a different spin on the story - or rather, removes the spin.

For Information just obtained this on the Dyce JU88 defection. This is extracted from page 79 of AIR27/1087 held at the PRO at Kew, London.This could be a cover story, of course, although personally I don't see any thing other than speculation to suggest it was anything more than a straight forward spur of the moment defection. But it does give some colour to the earlier unsupported comments about being tracked. It still has no connection with bader of course!

At 17.50 hrs on the 9th May 1943, Blue Section of No. 165 (Ceylon) Squadron comprising of F/L A. F. Roscoe in Spitfire Vb BM515 (SK-T) and Sgt B. R. Scaman in Spitfire Vb AB921 (SK-X) got airborne from RAF Dyce under Peterhead Sector Control (F/L G. S. Crimp) to investigate a "Plot". The raider was plotted due east of Peterhead but turned south down the coast of Scotland, eventually orbitting a few miles NE of Dyce. During this time the fighters were vectored onto it, and upon visual contact, identified the intruder as a Ju 88. Upon the approach of the Spitfire pair the enemy aircraft lowered its undercarriage, fired off verey lights and waggled its wings. Blue 1 replied in a similar manner, flew ahead of the enemy aircraft to lead it into Dyce and ordered Blue 2 to take up position behind and above the Junkers as safeguard any attempt to escape.

Thus the formation recovered, line astern, to Dyce where they all landed safely, the whole operation had taken no more than thirty minutes. The Controller is to be congratulated for his quick appreciation of the possibilities of the affair and for his able handling of the situation and the pilots for withholding fire and so bringing home a valuable prize for the Technical and Scientific Services to examine and evaluate.

Colditz film

Some fascinating colour film, taken at Colditz in 1942, has recently emerged. It shows German officers laughing and joking and Prisoners gathered in the courtyard for roll call. Snow on the ground indicates that the film is not going to help put the Bader-jaunts-off-to-Liverpool story to bed, sadly.

I wouldn't normally use a link to the Daily Heil, but they have more stills in their report than other more palatable papers!

Well, that would appear to be that. The Bader Mystery has been quiet for some time now, and a google shows no new threads have cropped up elsewhere. Perhaps, at last , this persistent fantasy will fade away.

reply to post by SPM.45


I wonder if ken is no longer with us.

Ken would be 90 now, and he had said he was in poor health so it's possible. If that is the case, then RIP to him and the Bader mystery.

Ken Williams died earlier this year at the age of 90. The End

a reply to: SPM.45

Thanks for letting me know. Shame Ken never got to know the truth about his story and put it to bed himself.

Sometimes it's better not to know; as they say, sometimes the answer to the question isn't the one you wanted to hear.

a reply to: SPM.45

Oh my G-O-D that thread was a heavy read.

3 hours of my life I will never get back (no one forced me, I know).

Ended up not giving a flying toss if Bader was or was not in Liverpool that fateful day.

I just felt really sad that an old man spent his dying years consumed with hatred for anyone who dared to not believe his story.

So very sad

I agree, very heavy going and Ken was ultimately his own worst enemy. I feel very sad that someone would spend their last years on earth becoming so obsessed with such a clearly mistaken agenda. It's a real shame that he could not be more open minded and achieve some sort of closure on his search but he could not accept any suggestion that he was wrong.

Wow! What a thread. Is the guy's story still available now he's gone?

Yes, you can get it from the NLA website

catalogue.nla.gov.au...

This is as it was originally written by Ken from memory, full of the contradictions and mistaken timelines that relying on memory inevitably causes. This version was later repudiated by Ken as "out of date" - although earlier he had cited inclusion of this version in the NLA archive as proof of its veracity.

It seems that Ken had later rewritten parts of his story - but that version is not in the public domain. Ken sought to justify that process as one of justifiable correction, but the truth was that what was being done was illegitimate historical revisionism.