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The Douglas Bader Mystery

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posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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reply to post by RNmedic1942
 


Grow up. No one is spying on You. You know who I am and where im from. I am spm.45 from ars. Thats enough.

Dont worry about typos you'll make plenty too. But to the core. You can't answer me. That much is clear




posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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One other comment - you've been told before to read what is written, not what you think was meant.

I have not made any assumption about Bader lying or otherwise. I said if the letter is genuine - which does not imply any finger pointed at Bader. You have a history of spurious "history making" so I accept little or nothing from you at face value.

Just so that is absolutely crystal.

Now then. We have disposed of your corroboration from 1976 and covered pretty much the whole waterfront on why your 1942 story is as dubious as Blair's dodgy dossier. Really, it seems we're done. You've added nothing but empty bluster and juvenile jibes since you reappeared, so one wonders why you bother. Can old age really be that dull - but given your apparent need to puff yourself up it would appear that is exactly so. Which is a shame, as many served like you in the rear echelon. Not everyone can be in the front line and most are happy that they did their bit and have no need to try to make themselves appear more than they were. Those men and women have dignity - something singularly lacking from your posts.
edit on 31-3-2012 by SPM.45 because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 08:04 PM
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reply to post by SPM.45
 



To the all readers of this Website and to those that provide this facility I wish to state that this anonymous contributor APM45 has been stalking me all over the Internet for at a guess, more than four years. He has always proclaimed that everything I have written is lies and the fantasies of a wannabe 88 year old man.

He has denigrated my World War II service by saying that I served in the back echelons and accordingly am trying to make more of my life and service than is factual. I have 4 service medals from World War II including the Atlantic Star and the Pacific Star that I am very proud of. Also as part of POW rescue operations in Formosa, Shanghai and Hong Kong, I contracted Malaria, Dysentery and back injuries due to landing accident whilst aboard a carrier based aircraft. All these claims can be verified by contacting The British War Veterans organization who pay me a 70% war disabilty pension due to aforementioned service, Hardly to be thought of as rear echelon. On top of all this our rescue team was awarded a US Presidential Unit Citation.

May I say in response to this stalker that my complete memoirs including all of my war service experiences are available for all to read at the Australian National Library in Canberra ACT. I cannot imagine the ANL would be bothered with wannabes and/or Walter Mittys.. Furthermove, if those that operate this website are interested I will be happy to e-mail the full memoirs for consideration and publication if so desired.

Now this person is suggesting that Bader himself could be lying when he wrote his 12 articles for the North American News Alliance and, I have both photo copies of the 12 articles as well as full transcripts that I can also make available if required.

There is only one Walter Mitty and Wannabe in this matter and that is the cowardly anonymous APM45 aka WEBPILOT.

Kenneth Williams



posted on Mar, 31 2012 @ 11:16 PM
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I would like all those who have any doubts about the integrity of my true account of actual happenings to read the following post to this forum from around 3 years ago and consider my story in the light of thie post.

Thanks



Originally posted by waynos
Timeless test, that is the precise question that has been rattling round my head for the last three years


The possibility mentioned by Jimc has occurred to me, even fanciful notions of Bader being used as some sort of 'negotiator' on shuttle missions (without any foundation - just wondering aloud). The whole thing is a complete mystery and scepticism such as Jim's is easy to appreciate, but the fact that selected papers pertaining to Douglas Bader are classified to this day under the 100 year rule, which is a rare occurance suggesting the utmost secrecy, does keep me wondering.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 02:31 AM
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Ah yes, your famous memoirs. The ones where you witness casualties "being brought back from the european battlefields by landing craft in 1943" a year notable for the lack of european land battles involving brtish based troops and where you heroically tried to prevent a pilot from crashing an aircraft that had a hydraulic leak on in a position where it didn't have the hydraulic system. Those memoirs?

As with your bader fantasy it is hard to take your meanderings at face value. As for being in the anl archive, the criteria is to be published- there is no value judgement or view taken on accuracy.

We have also dealt with the sealed papers red herring before. Sealed papers may be inaccesible but they are not untraceable. A search has been undertaken and timeless test or whoeverit was is mistaken - no bader papers are held under the 100 year rule. This is fact. The only sealed papers relating to bader were under the 30 year rule were released last year and relate to medical tests relating to baders flying licence in his later life.
As usual your inability to see beyond you want to see trips you up. If you or timeless test or whoever can trace sealed papers then so can others and to reiterate there are no 100 year sealed papers relating to bader. Not one.

As I made crystal clear I do not accuse bader of lying - another of your many misrepresentations and such will be noted by any audience that is not already bored to death by this pointless and futile quest of yours. However the journalist that reported to nana is less beleivable. There are many mistakes of fact in what was reported. Now that has been made clear - again - let us sum up.

Williams is unable to provide a single new fact to support his wild fantasy and relies on a factually unreliable third party report for much of his support even though it has very little direct relevance. His only corroborative fact, also unreliable has been shown to have alternative possibilities

However despite the time elapsed, reports keep turning up that back up the known story. Its quite amazing that this is possible but bader wasn't an average anonymous pow. And as such his whereabouts were of interest and thus the idea that somehow he dematerialises from germany and pops up in liverpool and not one single person beyond one gullible odd job kid in a liverpool hotel notices is beyond the bounds of reasonable doubt.
edit on 1-4-2012 by SPM.45 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:03 AM
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Is there really any thing else to add. We've been through your theories and dismissed them all as unreliable or factually incorrect and you've said YOU WERE THERE enough times. I guess that is the only real fact you've got though.

So do we have to make you jump through the same hoops again? We know how it goes - your theories are discussed, dismissed, you start posting juvenile theats and insults and then you get banned. Why go through all that again. Just accept that your story is not going to go anywhere, move on and enjoy what time you have left. You know it makes sense.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:35 AM
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Originally posted by SPM.45
Ah yes, your famous memoirs. The ones where you witness casualties "being brought back from the european battlefields by landing craft in 1943" a year notable for the lack of european land battles involving brtish based troops and where you heroically tried to prevent a pilot from crashing an aircraft that had a hydraulic leak on in a position where it didn't have the hydraulic system. Those memoirs?

Here above we have move of the lies, slander, and complete disregard of the truth by this Wannbe, Walter Mitty type, Zelig and could never have been.

I am sure there is somebody in this forum who is capable unlike SPM45, of gaining access under the FOA act if required or via less spectacular means, to the log of the aircraft carrier HMS Colossus whilst involved in the transfer of the Royal Navy POW Liaison Team personell by Barracuda aircraft to a Japanese held airstrip in Shangha in 1945

I can provide photos of the Barracuda aircraft over Shanghai, the name rank and photo of the pilot who was flying the aircraft involved and restricted (at theat time) maps of the Shanghaii area. There is a watercolour in the British War Museum showing men being transferred from a destroyer to HMS Colossus at the time I describe and the book THE FORGOTTEN FLEET tells of the transfer as I have desribed of our team to Shanghai.

This man is an utter fool and pease help me by having my above story verified to expose him for what he is.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 03:42 AM
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As usual you misunderstand. Im sure the crash happened and maybe you were on board. But your tale of trying to alert the pilot that he hadn't noticed a hydraulic leak is embriodary. Barracuda hydraulics ran from the engine bay through the pilots cockpit and to the u/c bay not through the crew compartment and leaks didn't ooze, they came out under pressure. Facts, ken, facts.

And those 1943 european land battles? Just whereabouts did the landing craft come from? Didn't you also "witness" landing craft evacuating troops from dunkirk even though it was 2 years before you arrived in chatham and 3 before landing craft were built?

Im sure YOU WERE THERE but I sense old soldiers tales from the rear echelon. You're like captain mainwaring - serving in france all through 1919...
edit on 1-4-2012 by SPM.45 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:15 AM
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SPM45 and his comments are now totally irrelevant not only is he making statements about Barracuda aircraft only from the viewpoint of a plastic model kit bulider who would not know a Barraucuda if he fell over it.

I ask that someone younger than I and closer to the source PLEASE have my story of what happened to the Barracuda I was in prior to and when landing in Shanghai. Any genuine researcher will be given all the information and photos, plus actual date that I have but, the real answer must come from the archives and the log book of HMS COLOSSUS please someone check it out and put this man, a man who claims Douglas Bader was a liar and all his writings for NANA are untrue out of his misery.

The Colditz Society that SPM45 claims to be a member of should now drum him out in disgrace now that his true feelings are known and thta is, to denigrate Douglas Bader and publish on the forum that he was lying when he wrote to his wife whilst a POW.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:43 AM
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Many years ago, I read a history book, something to do with the Luftwaffe, I think, anyway, the book stated that, through the international red cross, the Germans asked the Brits if they would parachute a pair of leg into Germany for a legless airman that had been shot down (obveasly!). so, who were they for? anyway, the RAF did drop a pair.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:44 AM
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Care to post where I ever claimed to be inthe colditz society? Another ken lie. So here we go full tilt into the usual ken nonsense, just as I said.

These 1943 european land battles.......just where were they?

Would You also comment on how the ether in the barracuda hydraulics failed to affect you. This of course I know nothing about - nor the admiralty order that pilots stay on oxygen after hydraulic leaks in the cockpit incapacitated pilots leading to crashes.

Facts have a nasty habit of tripping up the tall tale tellers ken. Your current postings no doubt will lead up to the usual crescendo of nastiness and if you can't see that posting juvenile nonsense and lies damages only you then I am truly sorry that a man can reach your age without gaining dignity or maturity. As the saying goes - better to stay silent and be thought a fool than open your mouth to remove all doubt. But that doesn't seem to occur to you. Just look at the places where your bader story has been discussed and how in every case you become a laughing stock. What a way to be remembered - not a war hero but the butt of jokes on the internet. Im sad for you but you brought it all on yourself.
edit on 1-4-2012 by SPM.45 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 04:46 AM
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reply to post by pikestaff
 


Correct. Dropped during a raid over france though but for bader shortly after his capture
edit on 1-4-2012 by SPM.45 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 06:29 AM
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reply to post by SPM.45
 


I sadly have no idea what SPM45 is now ranting on about. I think he may have snapped and lost his thread so to speak and it seems he is confusing me with someone else or perhaps indeed he thinks he is Zelig?

Whilst I will never understand why SPM45 has now suddenly turned againt the late Douglas Bader and has labelled him, his wife and the journalists from the North American Newsapaper Alliance as nonthing more than liars I shall say now more but wait for a member to contact the Navy historians and publlish the facts on what actually happened to that Barracuda that I flew in from HMS Collosus to Shangha in 1945 that is shown on my War Pension records and I now once again rest my case.



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 08:04 AM
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I wish to make it quite clear that this SPM45 person has an agenda with regard to my Bader Enigma experience and once published on line story of these events.

It is now patently obvious that when SMP45 quotes passages or events from my story and claims I have said things that are in his opinion either not true or grossly misrepresentative, I have checked with my original and master copies of my memoir and I find that he has been, and is still making alterartions to his copies of my narrative in order to ridicule both the story and sully my reputation for his own questonable ends.

Please be informed that anything that SPM45 publishes and claims to be my writings are spurious and illegal and in no way are a true account of any part of or all of my memoir. The only certified genuine copies of my story are in the hands of myself and my family.
A much earlier and now out of date version of my memoir is at the Australian National Library in Canberra, ACT Australia.

Kenneth Williams



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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reply to post by RNmedic1942
 


Laughable stuff ken. You can insist until you are blue in the face but I clearly stated that I have made no accusation at bader. That is you lying. As you are wont to do. Now post where I state that I am a member of the collditz society as you alleged. But as this is another williams.lie you will not, You will just make your baseless and risible allegations with no regard for the truth

I ask you again - you claim that you witnessed casevac by landing craft "from the european battlefields" in 1943. Just exactly which battlefields were they? You seem strangely silent on this claim, as you cannot answer the question about the ether in hydraulic fluid. Why could this be I wonder? Because when caught in a lie you always veer onto abuse and these nonsense allegations at whoever you can't answer. It makes you look stupid and more importantly, unreliable. You can't answer because you've embellished your story for years and years. Everyone knows it and you do too. Pathetic doesn't begin to cover it.

You a



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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Yet another hilarious backtrack. Earlier today you were crowing that your "complete" memoirs were at the ANL and that was a reason that you cited for their authenticity, though I pointed out that it is no such thing.

Here's what you wrote just hours ago "my complete memoirs including all of my war service experiences are availabele (sic) for all to read at the Australian National Library in Canberra ACT. I cannot imagine the ANL would be bothered with wannabes and/or Walter Mittys".

A mere few hours later and it's "A much earlier and now out of date version of my memoir is at the Australian National Library in Canberra, ACT Australia".

I thought they were complete?

Really, you couldn't make it up.

So just how do memoirs become out of date, Ken? You mean you've updated them to cover the last couple of years? You've been reincarnated? Just what exactly? Oh, don't tell me - I know already. What you meant of course, was the memoirs are inaccurate - no surprise there! All of a sudden another landmine goes off in your face and you frantically backtrack trying to avoid your self laid trap Too late matey - you are shown for what you are. My point all along is that your memoirs are unreliable and here's the proof. Who knows what other inccuracies and foul ups are in there? Whats clear is nothing can be relied on in them, and that includes your tale of meeting Bader in July 1942.

So here are your words straight - referring to your time at Chatham in June 1943 - no misrepresentation (though you are very keen on misrepresenting others).

"I volunteered for duty on the landing craft that were bringing the wounded back from the battlefields across the channel"

What battlefields across the channel in 1943 were those then, Ken? Or is that just another embellishment for the folks back home?

Who can guess what other dates and facts have you mixed up. How can anyone rely on your word or memories when they are so demonstrably totally unreliable.

As a witness you have about as much gravitas as Coco the Clown. The only person who sullies your reputation (such as it is) is you. Just you. No-one else.
edit on 1-4-2012 by SPM.45 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 07:00 PM
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To those that followed the early days of my Bader Enigma with an open mind it will have been very clear that I constantly stated that the ongoing account was a work in progress and still is. Only those with limited understanding would not be able to grasp the meaning of such a concept.

I have made it quite clear in the last few posts that I have no intention of providing my stalker with any further details of my encounter with Doiuglas Bader as he, the stalker has been exposed as not only a liar and cheat but also has no regard for his hero Douglas Bader and it is clear from his posts what his position is on the subject, he regards Bader, his wife and many journalists as liars because what they say/said does agree with the stalker's set in concrete beliefs.

This obviously unbalanced fanatic now asks me questions about Landing craft that I volunteered to be posted too and again calls me a liar and if that makes him feel good,well so be it. He also now asks why I was not aware of the properties of aircraft hydraulic fluid and its path through a Barracuda aircraft. I have no idea about such fluids other than it ruined the US army boots I was wearing at the time. However I am sure if he really wants to know the truth of this matter he can get in touch with the Naval authoriities and have the log book of HMS Colossus scrutinized wherein all the answers wil be found.

When the stalker is able to answer my question to him so far totally ingnored, on the matter of the IRC confirming that Bader was in the cooler at Lamsdorf when I have suggested that this was the window of opportunity for him to undertake his trip to the UK with the help of the Germans, then he will be worthy of further dialogue with me. Tell me stalker, was the IRC in the cooler with Bader for the full 10 days of his alleged incarceration?

Well, I believe that there is now a much better understanding by members who may be reading these posts that there is really only one person who is constanlty engaged in trying to rubbish my story and that is the stalker, Where oh! where are the legions of detractors that the stalker is constantly on about? Of course there have been the louts, scum and the dropiouts like the one from the Chnaael Islands who loudly proclaimed that my memoirs should be burnt!

I must go now as my life even at 88 is so full that there are not enough hours in the days and waste any of this valuable asset on the stalker is counter productive.My new Fuji X10 Camera could be in the mail to-day!

KW



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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Something for the stalker to contemplate whilst having his English breakfast this morning.

Stalker, I assume that you are probably what is widely known as a World War II "Baby Boomer" and about the same age as my son, around 55-60?

Given that you are, and I hope you must be, capable of fair play and uncluttered un-biased reasoning, I would like to put this (at present) hypothetical situation to you and hope you have the courage to answer truthfully?

When you open your copy of The Times this morning on page 3 there is a medium sized headline that simply states THE LATE DOUGLAS BADER RETURNED BRIEFLY TO ENGLAND IN 1942. Then there is a scant explanation of how, why and exactly when this event happened and perhaps there are no details of THE STORK hotel or anybody who was working there then at this stage, but will obviously be revealed later as the story unfolds.

Also given that your long record of constant attacks on my story of this event, denigration of my war service and indeed my spotless reputation, how would you now feel?

You will of course NOT be willing to offer a reply to this currently hypothetical situation and instead go on the attack again about the composition of hydraulic brake fluid or on second thoughts could it have been the undercarriage retraction system fluid if any? I of course am no expert on these matters but you constanlty suggest that you are an expert on all matters relating to WWII.

As you will not of course answer this interesting question I will do so for you...

I would be horrified and want to go hide in a cave somewhere or even go to the extreme of falling on my sword like a Japanese soldier would rather than be taken prisoner in WWII Pacific version.

Now Stalker, here comes the tag line....YOU MY LAD HAVE GOT THIS TO LOOK FORWARD TO!

Have you done the crossword this morning?



posted on Apr, 1 2012 @ 11:37 PM
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So when you said your memoir at the anl was complete what you really meant was that it wasn't? Right........

You realise at last what has been said all along, that your memoir is flawed on dates and events. That means that your recollections of this legless guy in liverpool are suspect. Let's not forget that originally you talked about the place being packed with us troops at the time which put the time frame far further forward into late 1942. You changed that one when you realised it shot you down. So this "work in progress " claim is nothing more than a smokescreen to disguise the unreliability of the facts in the memoir. What that means is that your (changed) recollections of meeting the legless guy could have happened at any time while you were at the stork and most likely at a time when bader was known to be in germany. You've just changed the "work in progress" to sidestep awkward things like the truth.

Your increasingly desperate attempts to slur anyone that argues against you also mark you out as a teller of tall tales. In this page alone we have your risible claims that I said I am in the colditz society (I look forward to your post showing that claim as I challenged you to provide!), now we have me claiming legions of supporters - I suppose you mean the reference to you becoming the butt of jokes on every forum this gets discussed on. Thats rather different old boy. But misrepresentation on that and a slew of others is your modus operandi so no surprises there. Once again you damage yourself with these ridiculous accusations.

So as to your last fantasy, that report in the times will be in the same edition as reports on little green men from mars. It ain't gonna happen cos bader was in germany. Your story is as thin as gossamer and trying to pick holes in the weight of evidence that shows you to be mistaken are laughable. You cannot prove a negative- however there are disparate sources showing bader in germany. You now find a few days where he is in the lamsdoef cooler and rewrite your "work in progress" to make your account fit better. Thats not a work in progress thats falsification of evidence. Given your proven unreliability on dates and events theres no certainty that your current version has any more validity than before.
edit on 2-4-2012 by SPM.45 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 2 2012 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by SPM.45
 


For one who claims to be well versed with all aspects of my memoir and in his view, its multitudious errors, lies, misinformation and thousands of things that he does not like one little bit, our out-of-date, wishful thinking wannabe stalker with no obvious friends or other activities beyond stalking on the net, it would seem, has no idea whatsoever of the complexities and sub texts within sub texts or the drift of and reasons for my memoir at all.

Sorry sport but you cannot and will never be able to read my current Bader Enigma work in progress and realize just what a work in progress is all about. It is just that... a work in progress, Ask someone at ARS (whatever that means) to explain the concept to you.

Did you know that I made plasitc model of a Barracuda that clearly shows the compartment I was sitting in on my own behind and below the pilot and observer or whatever the third crew member is/was. The kits are hard to find but try hard to get one it will give you much needed pleasure to build and give you a better idea of the undercarriage arrangement.

Hope you solved your crossword



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