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The Douglas Bader Mystery

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posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 02:38 AM
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Originally posted by RNM1945
reply to post by womblesrus
 


You are just one of the hundreds who suddenly pop up and after reading the tiniest morsels of information about the complex Bader Enigma then believe you are competent enough to postulate on what you have decided could or could not have happened.



Yet you fail to answer me why would the Germans release Bader to return to the UK when it would be simpler for them to have taken him to one of there embassies in a neutral country and have the British doctors take measurement's etc under the eyes of Germans rather than allowing him back to dear old blighty and risk him not returning.

Also with regard to Bader and Hodgkinson would the issue arising with the legs being dropped by the RAF being of a poor fit due to tissue wastage come down to the fact that Hodgkinsons injuries were more recent than Baders ?, not having read Hodgkinsons book I am at a disadvantage but I believe his accident took place ethier 39 or 40 as he was at the Cavalry School in Saumar in 1938 and was only accepted for entry to the Fleet Air Arm in late 38.


Originally posted by RNM1945
reply to post by womblesrus
 

You say your father was present on the set of the film,"The Battle of Britain" and heard some remarks made by Bader about mock German aircraft flying around. I was acutally an unwilling participant in the REAL Battle of Britain and had to put up with the REAL German Luftwaffe and heard thousands of "rude" words shouted at these planes.


Yes and so was he (being bombed out twice) and thousands of others in the UK, which makes you special in what way?. Also I note that you keep making references to being a war veteran, what bearing doe's this have on the story that you think you met Douglas Bader in 1942. Doe's it make you a more reliable observer no, You say you watched a German Bomber being shot down in broad daylight by a Spitfire in 1942, yet the last German bomber shot down appears to be 04 May 1941 - Heinkel He111 Wk No 3975 of 2/KG53, which collided with the balloon barrage and crashed into the Mersey at 12.00 Midnight, Lt K Baller, Uffz L Palubicki, Uffz K Fliechmann, Uffz. G Stolper and Gefr. E. Donner were all lost.
Which would lead me to believe you are not the most reliable of witnesses .



Originally posted by RNM1945

Before anyone can get really get involved in fruitful discussion on the pros and cons of this matter it is an obvious requirement that you believe that Bader visited Liverpool when I claim he did, and then consider the reasons I now believe to be why he came, simply for attention to his devastated articifial limbs.



So basically I have to believe you before you will consider discussing the matter hmmm.




posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by Peter Garner

Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
reply to post by Peter Garner
 


Do try reading before you post. There's a good chap.



If something in your post didn't come across the way it was meant to, why don't you clarify?

[edit on 18-2-2008 by Peter Garner]



Originally posted by Peter GarnerYou seriously believe instead he elected to carry out his mission in England (whatever it was) and then return to Colditz BECAUSE HE GAVE THE GERMANS HIS WORD?


Where did I say that?


A very strange attitude indeed in which bombing civilians is tolerable but breaking ones word (given to the enemy!) is not!


Where did I say that?


I don't see that there is any need for me to research the infrastructure of the german high-command in greater detail than I've already done.


You also appear not to feel that actual reading is necessary either.


If you feel there is, that is fine with me; I feel there isn't and I guess that is fine with you.


Finally, something that seems to show understanding. As I said


Originally posted by HowlrunnerIV
I'm sure that, at the very least, it would be fascinating to listen to a "gentleman" such as Bader rationalise his deliberate breaking of his word


Where, in that, do you get the idea that I have stated something must be true? Particularly given this:


should he have chosen to stay in the UK instead of returning to the Third Reich (assuming this whole tale is true).


Perhaps I should have added the words ", of course," in between "assuming" and "this". It would seem that the descriptive title "tale" was simply too inoccuous for some...



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:27 AM
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reply to post by womblesrus
 


Any long standing and intelligent member of this Forum has already noticed the strange sequence of events taking place here.

It is an established fact the SPM 45 has made literally hundreds of posts under the name of WEBPILOT on the Aviation Forum constantly attacking me and my story and, you will find evidence (if you go have a look) that in at least two cases he was directly responsible for a moderator actually closinge down threads.

SPM 45 arrived on this forum a short time after I did and immediartely commenced his attacks upon my story and my reputation and any fair minded reader will note that he never answers question put to him but answers with another question.

Next we have a sudden unexpected visit from a new member who claims to be from The Planet of The Apes and claims to have found a new witness to the visit of Bader in 1942 then, after a brief silence proclaims that the witness is totally reliable and has provided evidence to prove me being a hoaxer. Then despite requests for more information, clarifcation and proof that his witness is not only genuine but also existed he vanishes to resounding applause and praise from SPM 45.

Next SPM 45 comes to realize that he is not going to have any effect on me regardless other than getting me very annoyed from time to time and getting "The Cane" from moderators so to speak.

SPM 45 now assumes another persona, Peter Garner and has conversations with himself with back slapping and total and instant agreement that I am bogus. This fails to work and SPM 45 vanishes, possibly being abucted by Aliens or worse, kidnapped by the man from The Planet of The apes. There is a slim chance that he may have even been knocked down by by crazed push bike rider.

He is now missing for four days but re-appears yet again as Womblesrus who after a slow start is now in full flight with the putting down routine. His style of writing, terminolgy and use of long ago used anti Ken Williams slogans is indicative that this is indeed SPM 45 yet again - When will these charades end?

Watch this space for yet more manifestations of the Man from The Aviation Forum.

Who is that says, "I'm not bovvered?"

KW



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 04:46 AM
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reply to post by RNM1945
 


I can safely say I am not web pilot (if need be a moderator may contact me and I will furnish my name and other details as required). I notice you evade the simple questions I have asked you. Why would Nazis Germany let a fighter pilot return to the UK to have limbs fitted and expect him to return to a POW camp in 1942, yet when Galland entertained him at Abbeville he let Bader test the controls of an Me109 at dispersal (but photographs show that Galland had a guard posted with his pistol drawn just in case). Sorry just doesn't add up you provide no other evidence other than your word and wartime memories (which have been shown to to be misplaced at best).
Surely with your contacts you would have made in Australian Intelligence (yeah I did a web search some interesting claims came up) you could have have dug up something?.
Also why do you bring this up now?, you claim to have spoken on the phone with Bader in 1977, why not write your book or make your claims whilst Bader was alive and could answer the questions himself, you could have surely cleared all this up during that phonecall by asking "hi douggie remember me I helped you put your legs on in 1942 at the Stork Hotel why were you there?", or is it a case that most of those whom where in Colditz and Lansdorf and could rebutted your claims have mostly passed on?. Also I imagine that you would have been subject to a court case from Bader himself if you had printed these claims of collusion with the Germans whilst he was alive.



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 06:12 AM
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Originally posted by RNM1945
reply to post by womblesrus
 


As for Bader's dislike of the Germans you may be on the wrong track here.

Despite his often reported overt demonstrations of contempt for the Germans he was often their, and Adolf Gallands guest at Luftwaffe officers mess parties including the one reported in TIME magazine in 1941 with an account of Bader perfoming somersaults for his hosts. I and many othere, also believe that Bader had the greatest respect for the enemy in the true and long gone once British stiff upper lip tradition.



His former Comrades would seem to diagree with you. I think Bader's friendship wasn't quite the same as it was between Galland and Bob Stanford Tuck, who after the war use to hunt together.


An Unforgiving Foe

Although many Allied and German airmen became friends over the years, some veterans of the Battle of Britain never forgave their former foes.

''One of the least forgiving was Doug Bader, my old wing commander,'' said James A. Goodson, now a resident of nearby Canterbury and one of the few American volunteers who fought in the R.A.F. before the United States entered World War II.

Sir Douglas Bader, the most famous of all the Battle of Britain aces, lost both his legs in a training crash before World War II, but rejoined the R.A.F.'s Fighter Command after proving that he could still fly using prosthetic limbs.





query.nytimes.com...


IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS. Please review this link


[edit on 18-2-2008 by GAOTU789]

[edit on 18-2-2008 by GAOTU789]

[edit on 2/19/08 by FredT]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 06:39 AM
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reply to post by womblesrus
 


As another member just commented, Please read before you post comments old chap..

The answers to all your questions were on my website for all to read for three years and, if you had read the whole story and were intelligent enough to read and understand the sub-text, you would not be asking me such silly vapid questions and expect me to bow to your request and fill you in with answers - YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!

If you really want to HOPEFULLY grasp the very gist of the sub-text that will AMAZE YOU I will send you a copy for a hundred pounds to be paid via PAYPAL and the proceeds to be donated to Children's Cancer research.

Put proverbial money were proverbial mouth is!

STOP PRESS

I have just found two more SPM 45 clones on the LIVERPOOL WEBSITE actively attacking me and my story that I was ASKED to post there.

Check it out, he posts as COUOCHON and also NOTDB. His latest post was 13th January and is telling the world of the "new evidence" from a STORK Hotel employee than debunks my story - very hostile indeed.

I have now come to the conclusion and if it sounds bizarre all I can say is that the whole matter of this Jihad by this indivual against me is just that.

I now FIRMLY believe that this individual is an employee of The Ministry of Defence or such who has orders to silence or ridicule me and my TRUE account of Bader's visit to Liverpool in 1942 as, I am so close to the truth that the government DOES NOT WANT TO BE REVEALED for reasons I cannot imagine.

I again challenge the BRITISH GOVERNMENT to publicy state that my story is not true.

Watch out as I said earlier, for the ubiquitous WEBPILOT and also his clones they are springing up everywhere.

KW



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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I asked: "...Are you trying to tell us...?" Did I not?
I also asked "...You seriously believe?" Did I not?

Please try to read before you post! There's a good lad!

Peter


[edit on 18-2-2008 by Peter Garner]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by RNM1945
reply to post by womblesrus
 


As another member just commented, Please read before you post comments old chap..

The answers to all your questions were on my website for all to read for three years and, if you had read the whole story and were intelligent enough to read and understand the sub-text, you would not be asking me such silly vapid questions and expect me to bow to your request and fill you in with answers - YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!

If you really want to HOPEFULLY grasp the very gist of the sub-text that will AMAZE YOU I will send you a copy for a hundred pounds to be paid via PAYPAL and the proceeds to be donated to Children's Cancer research.



Right so I need to be able to read a website that no longer exists anymore (I'm led to believe the ISP ordered you to take down offensive material or they were going to close you down) ok I'll buy a time machine, If my questions are so silly why not answer them here?, ah no wait I'll send you £100 and you furnish me with the details of a discredited, factually incorrect website (no thanks I'd rather burn my money now, oh nice one with the Children's Cancer research you've got one in your back pocket then ?)

You refuse to answer any questions asked of you because you can't, because history is stacked against your story which on one site was described as having more holes than a piece of swiss cheese. I give you evidence to show the type of character Bader was and that he would have been unlikely to collude with the Germans(and even the Germans didn't trust him in the cockpit of a 109) and that the RAF when offered a safe passage to drop the leg refused the offer and did it as part of Circus 81 the attack on Gosnay power station.
Also the difference between Hodgkinsons and Baders injuries seem to have been over looked, for other forum members Hodgkinson's amputations were below the knee and newer injuries, Baders were above the knee and older which may explain the problems with the stumps and the prosthetic limbs and tissue wastage.




Originally posted by RNM1945
reply to post by womblesrus
 

I now FIRMLY believe that this individual is an employee of The Ministry of Defence or such who has orders to silence or ridicule me and my TRUE account of Bader's visit to Liverpool in 1942 as, I am so close to the truth that the government DOES NOT WANT TO BE REVEALED for reasons I cannot imagine.

I again challenge the BRITISH GOVERNMENT to publicy state that my story is not true.



Watch for the men in black and black helicoptors hovering over your house at night, you might want to wear a tin hat aswell, you've some great stories. Sorry but your posting absolute drivel now.
You have not one iota of proof for any of your story, you expect (even demand) to be taken at your word, although you can't even be trusted to provide reliable background information.

I'm leaving this thread hopefully to float straight to the bottom as it pure and simple rubbish.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by womblesrus]

[edit on 18-2-2008 by womblesrus]

[edit on 18-2-2008 by womblesrus]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by RNM1945
reply to post by womblesrus
 

I have now come to the conclusion and if it sounds bizarre all I can say is that the whole matter of this Jihad by this indivual against me is just that.

I now FIRMLY believe that this individual is an employee of The Ministry of Defence or such who has orders to silence or ridicule me and my TRUE account of Bader's visit to Liverpool in 1942 as, I am so close to the truth that the government DOES NOT WANT TO BE REVEALED for reasons I cannot imagine.

I again challenge the BRITISH GOVERNMENT to publicy state that my story is not true.


Errr... was this written by someone who believes he's fully sane? I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS! I, for one, am going to join Womblesrus (no, we're not one and the same person) and say fairwell to this crazy thread, to you and your sorry and bitter little world of lies and rude accusations and false theories. Should someone reply to this, or to one of my previous posts, I will of course get back to you. I'll drop in every now and then to see how this thing developes, but that is all. I'd much rather walk the dog - it's more fun. Just for the record: I am not an employee of the ministry of defence, I am not in the MI5 or the MI6, I am not Webpilot nor am I spm45 etc...etc...

Kind regards and best wishes

Peter Garner

[edit on 18-2-2008 by Peter Garner]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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I see during my short break Ken has continued to make his usual baseless assumptions and now I am accused of being womblesrus and various others! This sort of stuff is just smears to try to shore up an increasingly tenuous story!!!!

Some interesting points from Peter and Howlrunner which I will consider before making any detailed comment, however some initial impressions.

Hopkinson - a red herring. He did indeed return to the UK on repatriation via Liverpool but this was much later in the war and has no bearing on the Bader fantasy.

Legs - as has been said, the German industry was well able to deal with the legs. Plaster casts could have been made of Bader's limbs if need be and it is documented that a Luftwaffe mechanic repaired one leg shortly after Bader went into captivity. Plus, of course the Germans were dealing with many wounded of their own - many of whom would be amputees. In 1942 the Germans were not cooperating with repatriation under any circumstances so we can therefore largely knock on the head the notion that Bader could have been returned for some medical reason.

We've had these allusions to nuances and subtexts before but they're aall been shown to be just posturing. A reset one was "sensitive information". Nonsense.

So what do we really have? Well, to distill it all down - nothing more than a dodgy assumption that a man with no legs had to be Bader, and the justification of this turned out to be based largely on hindsight!

Baseless doesn't even really begin to do this justice.



[edit on 18-2-2008 by SPM.45]



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 05:14 PM
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An open reply to all the current manifestations of the one and only original WEBPILOT reliably reported to be, by HIS adversaries on the Aviation Forum, a confidential Viagra demonstator for Harrods in London when he is not up to the rest of his nefarious activities.

Wonderful!!! A couple of SPM 45 clones after a brief and fruitleess attempt to add weight to a non-existant witness against me, now pout their collective lips and both decide to take their bats and balls home and leave this dreadful Forum to sink into the mire - OK lads - Bon Voyage!

Then by a stroke of incredible coincidence the missing SPM 45 magically reappears after his sorties to God knows how many other such Forums for those who are in the main, always faceless and nameless - Well son , bully for you back again with your lies, innuendo and now emerging defamation. Can't say welcome back as I'm not always sure who it is that is attacking me!

Now to put right a couple of things - You or one of your Sprites claimed that Bader lost his legs whilst on a training flight, really?

I always thought that he was, against all rules and regulations, acting the fool and trying to show off to his mates how clever he was at low flying stupidity, crashed and was crippled for the rest of his life.
And by the way not to forget that on another occasion he wrote off another Spitfire because he forgot to set the propeller pitch correctly when taking off - It's all there if you look for it.

On the other hand, Hodgkinson lost his legs in a more honourable fashion than did Bader, he whilst on blind flying practice was involved in a collision with another so engaged aircraft. It's all there in his book and in mine but none of your gaggle of experts appears to have read either!

Let us also dispel another Bader myth whilst we are at it. When Bader was sitting in the cockpit of a German Me 109 or whatever it was, many would have us believe that this was allowed only whilst he was at gunpoint!

Utter nonsense! It has been proved that it was not a gun but an innocent glove in the hands of a German officer with a wooden leg of his own! Next, it is a well known fact that the cockpit and controls of Bader's Spitfire or whatever it was had been extensively modified to accomodate his disability and was, as some jokingly commented, half airframe and half Zimmer frame. In fact there was NO possiblity that Bader could have even started the Me 108 let alone take off in it. Those who have read my story in full will recall a section on illegally obtained details of the Me 109 cockpit and controls layout that were described as being the reverse of British aircraft, so yet another Myth Busted!

I am sick to death of SPM45 and his clones and challenge him/them to produce any evidence of the so called new witness/employee of the Stork Hotel in Liverpool in 1942 or forever remain silent.

There is always, no substitute for being on the spot during great moments in history and I have the advantage in that I was there when this activity took place - Nothing will ever change and even a thousand or more WEBPILOT clones will never be able to change the course of events that involved DB visiting Liverpool back in 1942 and, do you know what? WEBPILOT KNOWS THAT I AM RIGHT!

Time to go now and have breakfast and read the paper.

TTFN

KW



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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Oh! yes an important and lengthy PS.

For one of the clones who described my offer to donate his hundred pounds to Childrens Cancer reasearch as a mean gimmick or the like,

HEAR THIS

From day one three years ago, my book was (and still is) prefaced with the statement that is DEDICATED TO CHILDREN's CANCER RESEARCH and, had a device inserted into the book to enable any one wishing to make a direct donation electronically to do so.

Further, my Website can be re-instated by it's original host at ANY TIME I wish by simply renewing my subscription that I shall never do just to provide fun and games for ignorant people such as the WEBPILOT team.

Further .. WEBPILOT/APM 45's accomplice on the AVIATION FORUM, I believe called himself EN 380 or similar and who's name I will not publish here to spare him further embarrassment not only publicly advocated on that Forum that MY BOOK SHOULD BE BURNED and I can show proof of this statement, but complained to my Web Host in the USA that I had continually defamed him (an anonymous entity!) and threatened legal action against me and my Website.
Sufficient to say that my Website host found no defamation or anything like it and invited EN 380 to commence action at any time if he thought he had a case .. End of story and again, WEBPILOT knows that what I have just stated is TRUE but will never have the courage to admit it.

So the lies and defamation continue to pour from APM 45 and his coterie of uninformed accomplices and I give them fair warning - This will have to STOP and that's all I am going to say at this time other than go find your Stork Hotel vital witness for questioning.

And APM 45, You mention someone called HOPKINSON. Is this yet another legless pilot that I don't know about? Please explain.

KW



posted on Feb, 18 2008 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by SPM.45
 



This is for all your henchmen to read, digest and think about - No lies, no waffling like your gang, all TRUTH that can be verified by searching the Internet and none of it can you deny old fellah!!!


The following information has been extracted from my three part Trilogy that includes a section known as The Douglas Bader Enigma.

I present these extracts to give those who claim to have read my book but have not some idea of the scope of the book.




EXCERPT FROM EPISODE ONE OF DOUGLAS BADER’S 12 ARTICLES WRITTEN FOR THE NORTH AMERCIAN NEWSPAPER ALLIANCE

This short extract was taken from Bader’s first article from his recollections shortly after being shot down in 1941. Readers will note that his immediate reaction was to write to his wife and ask her to arrange repatriation.

Information on the make up of the NANA organization is well worth finding and reading, it is all there, again you must find it and wonder what exactly was going on.



WANTED TO OPERATE

“When the artificial leg came off in the plane, I had badly bruised my own bit of leg, which had in a very limited area produced a large swelling like a tennis ball. The German doctor seemed to want to operate on me.

The last thing I wanted was anybody, particularly a German doctor, playing around with what was left of my legs, since they had been extremely well amputated in the beginning. The thought of this fellow leaving a scar which probably would cause endless trouble in the future loomed largely in my mind.

I suppose I was not exactly normal, because I demanded a letter form and wrote to my wife, asking her to arrange to have me repatriated quickly, since I feared for my legs, or what remained of them.

In my complete ignorance I imagined that my letter would take about three or four days to get home instead of the odd month or two, as, in fact was the case.

The amazing thing subsequently, about this injury was that it disappeared in two days”

Extract has been printed with permission from the Publishers




Here is a VALID and real quotation regarding Douglas Bader by a senior RAF officer with a different view. This quote and a photo of John Freeborn are freely available on the Internet all you must do is find them.


He made me sick. I’ve never met such a self-opinionated fool in all my life.

John Freeborn DFC & Bar, wing commander


Here is another quotation written by Douglas Bader himself airing his views on the Luftwaffe pilots during World War II. Also freely available on the Internet – seek and ye will find.

“I am deliberately not mentioning the names of German Pilots, although I know them, because I have no wish to belittle a nation which has proved itself to possess brave and competent fighting men, even though they were fighting for such an evil ideology”

That must have given those bombed during the Blitz a really warm glow.

This quote hardly reinforces the view of the APM 45 clique that Bader loathed and despised Germans and is also from his NANA articles.


KW



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 02:07 AM
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Nonsense, Ken. It is not a "well known fact" that Bader's Spit was modified. Though certain senior pilots had their own designated aircraft, that machine would frequently not be available and they would fly a variety of machines. If you had seen Bader's log book, as I have, you would see the utter fallacy of this statement. Are you suggesting that every machine Bader flew was so modified, or just the aircraft that he was shot down in , W3185? Please provide some sources that can back up this remarkable new "fact"! Your comments on the Bf109 also show a remarkable lack of awareness.

The rest of the drivel in your last few posts, I shall treat with the contempt they deserve.

We come ever back to the fact that you base all this on the fact that you met a man with artificial legs and assumed it was Bader and everything that grows from that is just fantasy.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by SPM.45]



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 02:22 AM
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Dear Kenneth Williams,

Please take good care of your health, eat sensibly and mind out for accidents. You are absolutely pwiceless and we cannot afford to lose you.

SPM45, I think it's vewy mean of you to take the mickey out of a poor old man like this. If he throws his Horlicks at you and scalds you, it'll serve you right.

The rest of you are just as bad. Asking for pwoof. Don't you know it's wude?

As for Douglas Bader, I think it was tewwibly naughty of him to have played such a wicked twick on poor Kenneth by sending an imposter to that hotel to pull his leg for him.

Of course Ken knew better pulled both his. He pulled them wight off.

And now he's pulling yours. Well done, Ken!



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 03:53 AM
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reply to post by Astyanax
 


My Dear Astyanax,


How very decent of you to make the effort and come out of your induced coma, hop into your genuine wicker bath chair and trundle over to your treadle powered computer and, with some difficulty, say a few words.

I note that you are a member of some longevity and as such, are probaby located in a dark damp room somewhere and wheeled out now and then for things like coronations, Gala performances of Gilbert and Sullivan, full scale performances of Wagner's Ring Cycle and the like.

It is very sad to see that your common upper class speech impediment carries through to your writings - must be very annoying for you but never mind old chap a stiff glass of gin and bitters will put you back into your normal comatoze state.

Now do not worry about this fellow SPM 45 as he really cannot help himself and is suffering from terminal dandruff or is it terminal acne? One or the other and seeks constant counselling.

Incidently, Australians as a rule do not indulge in your old fashioned Horlicks but prefer a really nice bottle of Hunter Valley red!

Take care and make sure your Astyanax don't drop off.

Kenneth Williams



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by RNM1945
Further .. WEBPILOT/APM 45's accomplice on the AVIATION FORUM, I believe called himself EN 380


EN830 to be exact.


Originally posted by RNM1945or similar and who's name I will not publish here to spare him further embarrassment


Why not, you've printed it else where.


Originally posted by RNM1945not only publicly advocated on that Forum that MY BOOK SHOULD BE BURNED


That's all it's good for, it certainly isn't a good read.


Originally posted by RNM1945but complained to my Web Host in the USA that I had continually defamed him (an anonymous entity!) and threatened legal action against me and my Website.


But you constantly published my name with defamatory remarks against it, how the hell is that anonymous ?????


Originally posted by RNM1945Sufficient to say that my Website host found no defamation or anything like it and invited EN 380 to commence action at any time if he thought he had a case ..


Actually they told me to contact the webmaster of the offending site and take it up with them, which was totally pointless as the webmaster was the one posting the rubbish in the first place.

The best thing the moderators can do to this thread is lock it down. Mr Williams is renown around the interweb for peddling this sorry tale (rubbish), and then lambasting anyone who dare take issue with or pull his story apart.

Yes he is a war veteran, yes he is 80+ years old, yes he has led a full and meaningful life (his words). However this does not mean he can be abusive to those who wish to question his account, in one instance claiming one such person was a wife beater.



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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Gentlemen, Please.

If you want this thread to remain open you will discuss this in a civil manner.

Stop the bickering and member attacking, discuss the points / facts as they've been presented.

If you are "attacked", please do not retaliate, use the complaint feature and let the staff know.

Civility and Decorum are Required



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 05:27 PM
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Please use the complaint feature located in your member center.

Thank You.

[edit on 19-2-2008 by elevatedone]



posted on Feb, 19 2008 @ 06:04 PM
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Here's my point of view for what it is worth. The discussion here has been nowhere near the standard I would expect from ATS. In fact, given the age of the contributors, I would have expected something a little more civilised. What we have got is discussion more fitting of a schoolyard full of ten year olds. Which is a shame, because the subject matter is very interesting.

The thread shouldn't be closed. What should happen is someone should summarise the findings to date (in a neutral manner), and then further name-calling, accusations and non-beneficial diatribe should cease so that the thread doesn't get further polluted as it has already over eleven odd pages. That way should someone with genuine material come across the thread in the future, they can contribute. Closing the thread may preclude this outcome.

Going around the buoy with petty squabbles that appear to be the legacy of another website is not what I as a member want to see on ATS. Let's get back on track. I get it. Ken believes he saw Bader, a number of others think he's been fooled. Everything else is chaff that distracts from meaningful adult discussion. I don't care who you are, where you came from, how old you are, or what your opinion is on book burning or any other matter beyond the topic at hand. If you can't present your thoughts in a clear, rational and adult manner, then please return to your other site where the standards are apparently more lax.



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