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UK expels four Russian diplomats

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posted on Jul, 17 2007 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by yanchek
UK is the fifth biggest investor in Russia (or was). The biggest investor is Cyprus, second Luxebourg, third Netherlans, fourth Germany... The british investments are in decline especialy when BP is loosing their ground in Siberia.


ermm..no

from the FCO...

The UK was the largest foreign investor in Russia in 2006 and has significant interests in the energy sector.

this has been quoted across the media today.

plus, i thought Russia was mean to respond by 5:30 British time? nothing said yet.

Britain can put a huge dent in the Russian economy if we decided to pull our money out.

You need us more than we need you




posted on Jul, 17 2007 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by stumason

[qoute] We actually need to arrest someone before charging them. Hard to arrest them when they hide in Moscow.... And we have made it plainly clear we seek his extradition in order to arrest and then charge him.


So, why CPS haven't issued an arrest warrant?


Originally posted by stumason
Then why not come to the UK and clear his name if thats the only evidence we have?


Why should he? He is already guilty in a public eye.



Originally posted by stumason
Yes, they can. You see, in 2001, Russia signed the EU convention on Extradition....


This is incorrect. Russia signed EU convention on Extradition on 7/11/1996 ratified it on 10/12/1999 and on 9/3/2000 it came into force.
This convention is not an absolute Law. It is a guideline to better cooperation of signature countries to fight crime. The procedures of extradiction vary between this countries. And every country has their exeptions and reservations on what occasions they can refuse extratiction.


Declaration contained in the instrument of ratification deposited on 10 December 1999 - Or. Engl./Russ.

With respect to sub-paragraph "a" of paragraph 1 of Article 6 of the Convention the Russian Federation declares that in accordance with Article 61 (part I) of the Constitution of the Russian Federation a citizen of the Russian Federation may not be extradited to another State .
Period covered: 9/3/2000 -
The preceding statement concerns Article(s) : 6


Declaration contained in the instrument of ratification deposited on 10 December 1999 - Or. Engl./Russ.

The Prosecutor-General's Office shall be a body appointed by the Russian Federation to hear extradition cases.

A decision of the competent authorities of the Russian Federation on extradition may be appealed by a person against whom a decision on extradition has been rendered, in the court of law in accordance with the legislation of the Russian Federation.
Period covered: 9/3/2000 -
The preceding statement concerns Article(s) : -
Source


So you se Stu, Russia can extradite UK or German or whomever citizen, but when it comes to Russians there is an exeption. And even if UK wanted, lets say a murderer from Spain, he/she can appeal that extradition request in Russian courts.
Don't believe everything you read in newspapers.

[edit on 17-7-2007 by yanchek]



posted on Jul, 17 2007 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by infinite
The UK was the largest foreign investor in Russia in 2006 and has significant interests in the energy sector.


My numbers were from 2005.


Britain can put a huge dent in the Russian economy if we decided to pull our money out.


My response is:
BP sells Siberia stake to Gazprom


You need us more than we need you


Who's us and we?

PS. I'm not Russian. Don't let the red star fool you.

[edit on 17-7-2007 by yanchek]

[edit on 17-7-2007 by yanchek]



posted on Jul, 17 2007 @ 03:38 PM
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Originally posted by yanchek
PS. I'm not Russian. Don't let the red star fool you.


I didn't state you was Russian



posted on Jul, 17 2007 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by stumason
The dude is ex-KGB and has been for a number of years. he came to the UK on a PRIVATE trip, took in an Arsenal game amongst other tourist sites and is clearly linked in some way to the murder, as he was there.


I heard people say about Putin - that an ex-KGB agent, always remains a KGB agent, even if he is not directly serving the agency. Well to some extent I am sure it is true, and goes for other agents. You can not expect individuals like that to simply retire and leave their past behind them. Most of the retired KGB/FSB agents never really retire from their work, but simply from the agency. That means they continue to do what they do, perhaps even for the government, but their links to FSB are cut for purposes beyond our understanding. This might have been what happened to this guy, or not. But it seems that he is still on a good standing with the government, so he probably still gets his paycheck from it.


Originally posted by stumason
Unless of course, Maloy, your contending that an otherwise "ex-KGB" agent, is actually still with the FSB and came to the UK covertly under false information?


Would this surprise anyone? Isn't that what agents do? But as I said- FSB had reasons to kill him, but I doubt that it was them that did it. Berezovsky is a far bigger threat for the current administration in Russia, and if they had a chance to take anyone out it would be him. Now doing this is far harder than before the polonium incident. So why would FSB complicate matters for itself. If this was not the government's job, Russia might simply be refusing to extradite the guy because it is illegal under its own law, not because they don't want to.


Originally posted by stumason
We are led to believe by him that he is a "businessman" who runs his own "security firm" and has nothing to do with the FSB.


It could be true. But there has got to be a reason why he killed Litvinenko, if he killed him. And I am sure this is not a personal grudge.


Originally posted by stumason
So not really the active agent your saying he is, so your argument falls apart.


Even if he is not an agent now, he still knows far too much sensitive information as an ex-agent, and Russia has reasons for not extraditing him. What if he decides to seek asylum in UK as soon as he is extradited, and like Litvinenko decides to spill everything he knows to the British authorities? It is obvious that Russia would want to keep him and countless others like him on a short leash.



posted on Jul, 17 2007 @ 11:25 PM
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I was actually listening to the BBC today and a Russian correspondent was talking about how the UK refuses to turn over alleged Chechen terrorists to Russia because they said they didn't find anything wrong with them through their courts.

Now I personally would trust British courts over Russian courts in a millisecond (any sane person would), but it does seem hypocritical.

I am sure we all know that Russia is hiding something nevertheless. But Russia isn't the first to deny extradition. The United States just recently totally ignored some European countries pleas to put CIA agents on trial (which I agree with) but I do think Russia is being...bitten for doing the same thing the US and UK does.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
[...]

Putin seems dedicated to returning to the cold war. Some of his decisions over the last year or so have been serious provocations [...]

[edit on 17-7-2007 by spencerjohnstone]


I don't think so.
I think Russia keeps on being annoyed and when it retaliates we only get half the story.
According to the treaty posted a couple of posts ago, Russia does not need to give us their citizens. So what do we do? Send their Diplomats home!

According to the over 50 year old peace treaty 'the west' is not allowed to build military bases past a certain line: what do we do? We... well... the US plans to build a missile system right on their doorstep!

C'mon be serious, if I were Russia I would do the same thing: tell them to Fuc** off and pick on someone else.
So I'll ask you a question: WHO is trying to get back to the cold war? RUSSIA???

Be serious mate!


Remember that Russia is not the weak and broken nation it used to be a few years ago. It is paying off it's debts and is becoming stronger by the day.
I hope we don't pi$$ Russia off, because if we do, they might just reak a little bit of havock on the energy market...
What most people just don't realize is that while Russia is paying it's debts back, other countries (UK, US etc.) are actually borrowing more and more!

(That's probably what certain politicians are afraid off...)


Sammy



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 06:28 AM
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Going to throw something else into this dabte ver the diplomats being expelled from the UK.

What about the innocent bystanders who had to go for tests, (some were in fected). What about the amount of money the restuarants and other places lost, as a result of those premises being checked to see if they had been contaminated or not.

I would agree though, if Russia can guarantee, a fair/honest trial in a Open Russian Court not behind closed doors.

But the way I look @ it, he should b e tried in the UK not in a Russian Court.

Kinda intrigued by Russia's responce so far.... I suppose we will see later on, if this dispute is not defused, maybe russia will take further steps towards the UK. As one Russian Paper has printed, Britian Declares war on Russia??? LOL

How would russia act if a Russian Citizen was killed this way by a British Citizen. Would they be asking for the same extradition?



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 07:07 AM
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heats up..

another revelation



Exiled Russian tycoon Boris Berezovsky was the target of an assassination plot, he said today.

But a Whitehall source said: "Boris Berezovsky is a high profile critic of the Russian government. Our experience is that the Russians are prepared to take action against their critics."

Mr Berezovsky said that even before Scotland Yard warned him about the plot, he had information from a source in Russia of a plan to kill him.


Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


news.independent.co.uk...



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 07:28 AM
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July 18, 2007


RAF fighter jets were scrambled to intercept two Russian strategic bombers heading for British airspace yesterday, as the spirit of the Cold War returned to the North Atlantic once again.

[---]

Two Tu95 “Bear” bombers were dispatched from their base on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle and headed towards British airspace.

[---]

Two Tornado fighters, part of the RAF’s Quick Reaction Alert, took off from RAF Leeming, in Yorkshire, to confront the Russian aircraft, after they were shadowed by two F16s from the Royal Norwegian Air Force, The Times has learnt.

“The Russians turned back before they reached British airspace,” an RAF spokesman said.

Taken from
www.abovetopsecret.com...


hmm getting interesting now, wonder what our responce will be to that?



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 07:49 AM
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The French have given us support

"The murder of a British national on his home soil, using a substance that put at risk the lives of thousands of others is a particularly serious matter. Given the gravity of the matter, we stand alongside the United Kingdom in its concern that justice be done."

"We call on Moscow to respond to the demands of British justice in a constructive manner ... so that the perpetrators of this crime are brought to justice and punished."


Germany said we "over reacted" and are putting economic interests first instead of a citizen who was brutally killed.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 07:53 AM
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Thank you France for backing the UK up, at lest they can see that Russia is wrong is refusing to extradite this suspect to the UK to stand trial. As for Germany well, enough said about them. No one in the UK cares what they think.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 08:01 AM
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an EU statement is expected after the Russians respond, but sadly the EU has once again shown its scared to stand up in fear of oil and gas being cut off.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by stumason
Basically mate, it boils down to thus...

Russia is refusing to hand over a suspect in a murder of a British citizen. If the roles where reversed, what would Russia do? Probably more than expel some diplomats (intelligence officers - Spies), I suspect you'd play the old "cut off your gas" rouse that you like to employ in order to bully smaller nations into complying...


If you chaps dont mind my input...
UK would probably refuse as well, and take the small cost of having some peeps expelled from Russia, which would be replaced in days.
Russia doest mind UKs allegations about whacking someone (I would even say, they are being pompous about it...but that's just me
)
It was loud. It was ugly, and very public. It was done that way, as an example. "You run, you die".
Ugly...but historically correct to KGB and FSB methods.

This criminal obviously was more "dangerous" to Russia for some reason over other criminals. What thar reason was, I do not know, or care to know.

Uk will kick someone out, Russia will kick someone out in retaliation. End of problem.

Russia will not aplly tough economic measures, and neither will the UK to further pressure. That's it, in a few months time it will be forgotten (precisely what the Russians want, instead of having their people being trialed, which would put an even bigger spotlight to the issue already)

Relations will cool down...but they aren't about to get red hot...that much, I can see.

Peace




posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by Ioseb_Jugashvili
Russia will not aplly tough economic measures, and neither will the UK to further pressure. That's it, in a few months time it will be forgotten (precisely what the Russians want, instead of having their people being trialed, which would put an even bigger spotlight to the issue already)


as i said in afew posts above..

the UK is the biggest investor in the Russian economy, they cannot afford to damage it.

plus, we upset the Russians when Blair announced a reverse on British policy towards Russian oil and gas



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 10:12 AM
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ex-agent?!!
Like Bourne?



maybe.. But all such activities still fall under the realm of the spook world and publicising an extradition request is just crazy IMO.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by infinite
The French have given us support

"The murder of a British national on his home soil, using a substance that put at risk the lives of thousands of others is a particularly serious matter. Given the gravity of the matter, we stand alongside the United Kingdom in its concern that justice be done."

"We call on Moscow to respond to the demands of British justice in a constructive manner ... so that the perpetrators of this crime are brought to justice and punished."


Germany said we "over reacted" and are putting economic interests first instead of a citizen who was brutally killed.


Sarkozy...
Cozying upto the West that is!


the much heralded neutrality of France is at an end I fear!



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by infinite
as i said in afew posts above..

the UK is the biggest investor in the Russian economy, they cannot afford to damage it.

plus, we upset the Russians when Blair announced a reverse on British policy towards Russian oil and gas


Though the UK may be the biggest investor, highly doubt it will convince the Russians of lifting a finger to extradite anyone. Particularly since the hit stinks of "Ordered by ze Kremlin" a wee bit too much.

The UK profits as much as the Russians from their investments, so neither side will touch economics. Russians will match UK move, then make up later somehow...they are witty after all.

Bottomline is...money is more important to both sides politicians...hurting income, over some peeps getting made to "persona non grata" seems rather unlikely.

Unless of course...Russians pull another 007 assasination soon.



posted on Jul, 18 2007 @ 01:51 PM
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Originally posted by Daedalus3
the much heralded neutrality of France is at an end I fear!


They are probably in the best place to criticize Russia considering how energy independent they are and will continue to be.


FDS

posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 05:21 AM
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Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
What about the former S/Union Countries, that Russia has threatened who seek independance? Oh I suppose that is russia being peaceful lol.

can you be a little bit more specific? Former Soviet countries are independent, how can they seek independance?


Originally posted by spencerjohnstone
What about the thousands of people in Afghanistan, Chechnya and Georgia, that Russian Soildiers have killed in the past.


Georgia?
Did I miss something?
Abkhaz Leader Has Ordered Army To Sink Any Georgian Ships...


Originally posted by infinite
UK is the biggest investor in Russia.

not anymore...
Foreign Investment In Russia Soars 180% In Q1

The biggest investor in Russia in the first quarter of 2007 was
the Netherlands with $7.76 billion, including $7.444 billion in the fuel and energy extractive industry.
Luxembourg followed with $4.048 billion;
Britain with $3.124 billion,
Cyprus with $2.82 billion,
Ireland with $1.656 billion;
Germany with $666 million,
the Virgin Islands with $579 million;
Switzerland with $504 million,
France with $466 million and
the United States with $364 million.


.
.
.

@BitDust

in a discussion facts are better than emotions



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