Where do aborted fetuses REALLY go?

Benevolent Heretic, Congress Investigates Fetal Tissue Sales
one obscure science magazine doesn't erradicate the fact that fetal tissue has been harvested and sold. They don't exactly sound "scientific" and unbiased. I've read many reports about the findings by congress back then to the contrary. Let me tell you something. I'm not GeneralT. I'm his wife. I've been having to post under his name because I can't get my own account. When I said I've been in a clinic, I was a patient, if you could call it that. All they wanted was my $300.00. They didn't tell me squat about the procedure, I had a pamphlet to read. The place was a dump. It smelled bad, not necessarily like dead bodies, but like trash. I didn't investigate the place, I just wanted to get it over with. This was in 1989 and I wasn't a christian at all, just a metal-head.

I think the answer is pretty obvious:



I'm not so much interested in the murder vs. not murder debate. Everyone kills to live, and I don't see much difference between a human life and that of a succulent pig, ground into sausage and seasoned for a topping on a delicious Papa John's pizza pie. Society makes all kinds of crazy decisions.

To continue, most, if any pro-deathers, will not tell you about what the woman has to go through after she decides to have her baby killed. I came off the recovery table with the memory of the worst nightmare I had ever had of the Devil. I got up and was vomiting profusely. The nurses sent me home without even a Tylenol or a Thank you. Knowing you have killed someone is too heavy for the average good-hearted person, like I tried to be. Let me state that I did not even think it was a baby . I thought it was a blob of flesh at 3 mos. My life spiraled into drugs and despair more and don't forget the suicide attempts. Ultimately I believe all children go to heaven at death. Where do you deserve to go?

Originally posted by GeneralT.
one obscure science magazine doesn't erradicate the fact that fetal tissue has been harvested and sold.

So what? I didn't say that it does. I said Congress didn't find any evidence of wrongdoing. And there are TONS of sources out there that say the same thing. You're making a claim. The burden of proof is on your shoulders.

Let me tell you something. I'm not GeneralT. I'm his wife. I've been having to post under his name because I can't get my own account.

Oh, really? So... you admit you're posting under someone else's account because you can't get one? Isn't that against the T&C?

When I said I've been in a clinic, I was a patient...

Oh, so you've had an abortion, but you call others who want to do so, "pro-deathers". You had the choice, but others shouldn't have it?

Knowing you have killed someone is too heavy for the average good-hearted person, like I tried to be.

So, you were trying to be a good person, but you knew you were killing somebody? And you did it anyway? Wow...

Where do you deserve to go?

Well, let me tell you something. I've never had an abortion...

Originally posted by GeneralT.
To continue, most, if any pro-deathers, will not tell you about what the woman has to go through after she decides to have her baby killed. I came off the recovery table with the memory of the worst nightmare I had ever had of the Devil. I got up and was vomiting profusely. The nurses sent me home without even a Tylenol or a Thank you. Knowing you have killed someone is too heavy for the average good-hearted person, like I tried to be. Let me state that I did not even think it was a baby . I thought it was a blob of flesh at 3 mos. My life spiraled into drugs and despair more and don't forget the suicide attempts. Ultimately I believe all children go to heaven at death. Where do you deserve to go?

YOU HAD AN ABORTION????

"I came off the recovery table"

ladies and gentleman may I present EXHIBIT A from GENERAL T's Member profile

Stuff I Like Blue skies,fresh vegs.the love of my wife and sons,fellowship with God and my fellow countrymen

MY WIFE???? MY FELLOW COUNTRYMEN????

MODS ban this man for the major violation of knowingly posting false information...

THANK YOU AND GOOD DAY.

Dude wanting to take the right away from women... Oh I'll just act like a woman... that'll do it...

As a male who supports womens rights let me say... YOUR WIFE should SLAP YOU...


COVEN OUT OVER AND DONE

*Imagines having the authority to hit the closed thread button
*

Got to reply to something like this. If you ask me, they should ban abortion. The real process should be the following:

For normal women
1. Mother that doesn't want child then gives it away for adoption.

For health risk to pregnancy
1. Take baby out, but do not kill it.
2. Put the baby in a stem cell solution made from umbilical chords. (umbilical chords are not alive for you who are dumb)
3. Use the babies umbilical chord to connect to feeding utensil.
4. Nurture baby to semi-developed state
5. When it seems appropriate (around 8.5 to 9 months after conception) take out baby. Baby will naturally wake up from fetal stasis. (or help baby wake up via light shocks to heart and removal of natural nose plugs)
*Note: Baby's placenta (umbilical chord) will be divided up. Half going to stem cell research, half going to other needs for it.
6. Put baby into adoption (Or, for abandoned babies not adopted by age 6, put them into military school and teach them how to serve their nation and be a respectable human being.

May sound a little errie to clone wars, but there not clones, and they could be the first to live on other worlds if Earth gets too crowded, hehehe.

Any refutales or problems to my system? I plan to go into politics soon and push this system. I feel it goes fine to both Christians and liberals.


[edit on 17-7-2007 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by coven

MY WIFE???? MY FELLOW COUNTRYMEN????

MODS ban this man for the major violation of knowingly posting false information...

THANK YOU AND GOOD DAY.

Dude wanting to take the right away from women... Oh I'll just act like a woman... that'll do it...

As a male who supports womens rights let me say... YOUR WIFE should SLAP YOU...


COVEN OUT OVER AND DONE

*Imagines having the authority to hit the closed thread button

*

Straight then lesbian? hehehe. But in all seriousness, "his" description seems right in line to people I know who did that. So either lie or not, it seems right in check to me.

Originally posted by SuicideVirus


I'm not so much interested in the murder vs. not murder debate. Everyone kills to live, and I don't see much difference between a human life and that of a succulent pig, ground into sausage and seasoned for a topping on a delicious Papa John's pizza pie. Society makes all kinds of crazy decisions.

You sir are why the terrorists hate us (and ironically are exactly the same). Human life is above all others because its, well, US. The human species. A bear wont care for a fish baby, but it will die to defend its own young.

[edit on 17-7-2007 by Gorman91]

This thread has become quite hilarious, really. It seems it started out as "medical conspiracy" thread, when actually it was a thinly-veiled anti-abortion thread. It should have been put in Slug-Fest a while ago in my opinion.

Originally posted by Gorman91
3. Use the babies umbilical chord to connect to feeding utensil.

Like a fork?

Baby's placenta (umbilical chord) will be divided up. Half going to stem cell research, half going to other needs for it.

Um. The umbilical CORD and the placenta, while connected, are 2 very different things.

... put them into military school and teach them how to serve their nation and be a respectable human being.

Oh, God! ACK!

I feel it goes fine to both Christians and liberals.

Christians AND liberals, huh?? That covers everyone, then!

What a hoot!

Originally posted by Gorman91
Human life is above all others because its, well, US. The human species.

Again, that explains everything! Human life is above all others because, well, because it is.

A bear wont care for a fish baby, but it will die to defend its own young.

Dog Adopts Ducklings:


Dog Adopts Fawn:


Dog Adopts Kitten:


I apologize, mods, for being so off topic, but some things just cannot be ignored!

Seems to me that the question of this thread has been answered.
- There are laws in place for proper disposal of aborted fetuses.
- Congress has investigated this and found no indication of wrong-doing.
- Many people make CLAIMS that horrible, dramatic things are happening in abortion clinics, but have no proof or support for these claims.
- Terrorists apparently hate us because of people like SuicideVirus, who would deign to ground up a pig and put it on a pizza pie.

Benevolent Heretic: You are neither benevolent nor a heretic. To be a heretic, one has to have had a belief system to begin with. I've worked federal law enforcement for many years. I know whereof I speak. As long as there are clinics doing partial birth abortions, there will be 10lb babies in the trash. I happen to know the mother in this case acted under a lot of duress. She wanted her baby. That's why she waited so long. There's even a question in her case as to whether she went there voluntarily at all. The low status of women and the prevalence of domestic violence in this country makes me wonder if any abortion is ever voluntary. As to the cosmetics, no, I don't think they are FDA approved. I'm talking black market. But the point is, there's a demand for it. As to the cannabalism issue, even the Catholic church recognizes that in starvation conditions, if the person is already dead, it's okay to eat them. But No, it is NOT okay for any thinking person to use aborted fetal cells as it involves killing another human being---for your own sick purposes. Even when you discuss cuutting edge transplant technology-----Who decides who lives and who dies? If human life in the womb has no inherent value, than neither does human life outside of the womb. It's purely a matter of location. Why don't you ask my nephew--the kid with the genius IQ--whether or not he had conciousness in the womb or self awareness or any of the other qualities we normally associate with sentient human life? He can give you a long dissertation on it. Therapists and body work professionals will tell you other babies have conciousness too. I don't want anybody using my body for their own purposes until I am well and truly done with it. Like it or not there is a Supreme Being who disapproves of murder, (to put it mildly), and S/He isn't going anywhere nor changing his/her stated opinion on it. There ARE CONSEQUENCES!. You don't have to believe in gravity either, but if you jump off the roof of this apt building, you're still going to break your stupid neck. And to tell you the truth, if all the abortionists did so, that wouldn't hurt my feelings right now. The depths of cruelty I've seen astonishes me. It's not a boon to women, it's one of the sickest most demented things our society has ever made legal. You were a fetus once, *snip*! When you drew you first breath, that was a statement that abortion is catagorically wrong. Have you ever been present when a baby is born? I have, it's a sacred occaision. A fetus is not a potential human being, they have awareness sometimes even a few moments BEFORE sperm meets egg. There are plenty of accounts. We've even had the ability to transplant the preg uterus into another woman in cases of life threatening illness for 20 years now, but are we using it?--No. A person's life--whether or not they MATTER enough to be allowed to live is purely a matter of opinion now, someone else's whim. It's old Roman Common Law and totally barbaric. Worse yet, where does it STOP? Where do we go next? You're not an oversized blob of tissue, (what 160lbs--180lbs)?--*snip*. You are special to God. You matter to Him. He's numbered every hair on your head. He knows what you do when you're alone. Otherwise it wouldn't matter that Bush has got guillitnes lined up in an underground facility as far as the eye can see, or that we're killing people overseas and here. Without that framework we're all fertilizer.


Mod edit: Insults removed

[edit on 2007/7/17 by Hellmutt]

I didn't know I was violating any rules. Before now all the discussions I've had were not important to gender. What am I supposed to do if my husband has an account and I become interested in a topic? Keep my mouth shut like some neandrethals would like? I started out helping my husband with spelling and grammar. He wrote his profile, along with "My bigfoot story" and many others. I don't believe in split personalities, etc....Neither I nor my husband is gay. Me being an hipocrite is far-fetched because I didn't have anyone to help me make the right decision when I needed it, even though I asked. People, including some family said that I didn't need to raise the baby on welfare, so I should end it , and when I did, they just looked down thier noses at me! There's no shame in living on welfare until you get on your feet. I never thought that the God of the Bible was real until I realized how depraved men and women are. I was a stout feminist, believing in human effort and chance, but Jesus forgave me!!! I try to help others the way so many never reached out a hand to me. What to do about my own account?

Originally posted by GeneralT.
I try to help others the way so many never reached out a hand to me. What to do about my own account?

still doubting your story... but anywho


those little buttons at the top... At the far right is the log out button. hit it... the hit create account... simply put it is still a T & C violation as you are using someone elses account, but i have a strong feeling by the constant lack of paragraph formatting, slight grammatical errors, and the simple fact you talk about jesus forgiving you for being a feminist... still not convinced...


sorry, doubt your going to change my mind.

Originally posted by thefatlady
Benevolent Heretic: .....

Probably the most unwarranted, uneducated, and most abusive rant I've read on ATS in a while. (not to mention hardest to read due to lack of proper punctuation, sentence and paragraph structure).

Thefatlady, you may have specific religious views, but just because someone doesn't subscribe to your exact view doesn't give you the right to call them stupid or fat (I'm not sure where that one came from BTW).

Aside from that, if you could back up any of your claims with evidence, maybe I would take you seriously. Until then, you're just someone who rants about topics in which they seem extremely uneducated.


MOVING ON!!

*slaps self on the forehead*

*starts to walk away shaking head and pinching himself*


I cannot believe people still think like this in a free society. Remember when our soldiers were the baby killers in Vietnam??? now the Liberals have lost that term and the conservatives took off running with it... egad... I almost hate being an American.


just a commentary on all of the political crap going back and forth here as opposed to truth and honesty...


Coven

Originally posted by thefatlady
Benevolent Heretic: You are neither benevolent nor a heretic. To be a heretic, one has to have had a belief system to begin with.

Oh, I'm crushed. You've read me like a book. Darn...

They aborted a 10-lb baby and it lived? Then that was childbirth, not an abortion! Babies typically weigh about 7-8 lbs when they born and late term abortions are performed such that the fetus is dead when it's removed. It HAS to be! The skull is crushed.

I don't know what you're talking about but a 10-lb baby found in the trash can is NOT an abortion.

Edit: Removed irrelevant material.


[edit on 17-7-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

Originally posted by GeneralT.
I didn't know I was violating any rules.

I'm not sure you are. I just don't know why you don't get your own account.

What to do about my own account?

Start your own account. My husband and I each have one. I don't see why it should be a problem.

As regards the abortion stuff, I don't look down on you AT ALL for doing what you did. Many girls are in a tough situation and it seems like the only thing, the right thing to do. And for many, it is. Not everyone is going to have the emotional reaction that you did.

The point is, you had the choice. The government didn't make the choice for you. And every woman should make that choice for herself.

And that isn't what this thread is about, anyway. It's about the disposal of fetal tissue.

Originally posted by thefatlady
As to the cosmetics, no, I don't think they are FDA approved. I'm talking black market. But the point is, there's a demand for it.

Once again, you mentioned cosmetics made from placentas. Do you knw what a placenta is? Do you realize that it's not a part of the baby? Do you realize that the placenta is most often thrown away after childbirth?

Why don't you ask my nephew--the kid with the genius IQ--whether or not he had conciousness in the womb or self awareness or any of the other qualities we normally associate with sentient human life? He can give you a long dissertation on it.

Well I'm glad your nephew is a genius. I'm wondering where he got it from. Must be the other side of the family. Maybe he could take over for you in this thread, as he may do a better job arguing your point than you could. I've heard some people mention pre birth consciousness and memories, however there has never been anything to back this up, and I'm supposed t take their word for it.

Sorry, but that's not enough for me to have my sister, mother, friend and girlfriend's rights, and freedom of choice taken away.

[edit on 17-7-2007 by Rasobasi420]

Benevolent Heretic, I should have read you post much more closely. You largely were not taking a positon on it, Apologies. This is a very emotional subject for me. I don't have any objection to using placentas from term nonaborted live babies. I think the major burn centers use such a cream from human placenta. Also didn't mean to imply the placenta collagen cream I used was from aborted babies, but it was imported, so I don't know if it was FDA approved. Placentas though are an entirely different issue than aborted babies. The point I meant to make is that some people will stop at nothing to get what they want no matter how repulsive or illegal, and having abortion legal undoubtably facilitates the worst abuses, and as a woman, I don't think legalized abortion benefits anybody. I do believe most fetuses get disposed of, but there have been some obscene abuses, and under the best of circumstances, they are not always handled properly as a biohazard let alone as human remains. What made me go off is we're currently investigating a case in Ca. where preliminary DNA evidence suggests a young man age 20 was in fact killed for his parts, with some heavy hitters on the LAPD involved. We had a similiar case in the early 90's but were stymied when we could not get a court order for DNA and had problems with chain of evidence. Have talked with his grieving father. I'm a mom. I go off when I hear about this stuff. .

Originally posted by thefatlady
Benevolent Heretic, I should have read you post much more closely. You largely were not taking a positon on it, Apologies.

Apology accepted. However, my position on the subject has nothing to do with it. People disagree. And as you now know, it's not OK to haul off and sling insults at people for disagreeing (or for any reason) here on this board.

I do believe most fetuses get disposed of, but there have been some obscene abuses,

There are always abuses. And making abortion illegal isn't going to make it any better. There will still be abortions and there will still be abuses. Blaming legal abortion for the illegal abuses in the medical industry doesn't make any sense.

I go off when I hear about this stuff.

Well, I suggest next time you feel yourself "going off", step away from the keyboard for a while until you can re-read what's been said and respond appropriately. .

I also believe a lot of this is Pro Life propaganda.

Most deaths due to abortions in the US have occurred during times when abortion was ILLEGAL. That includes of the, obviously, fetus and mother. In the 60s, people had horrible infections due to abortions in hotel rooms because they could not GO to a sterile and qualified clinic.

My mom had a friend who died during an illegal abortion.

Let's be serious, in the USA, abortion clinics are safe, sterile practices.
The fetus' brains are NOT scrambled. The embryo is vacuumed out, or the fetus is removed and scraped, just like giving a woman her period, only fertilized.

The fetus is incinerated. With the mother's full and written consent, it can be used for research. HOWEVER, remember research can only be done if the fetus has not been aborted due to congenital abnormalities or illness of the mother or child.

Makes sense. No one's eating these babies in the USA, and a lot of the stories about clinics sound like something from a novel. Remember, medical offices are regularly checked up on and need to be certified. The only time someone would have an abortion in an nonsterile environment that could cause serious harm is if the mother cannot afford a safe abortion, or if abortion is made illegal.