Cheney pushes Bush to act on Iran

Just to add a bit to this discussion - According to an article in the Sunday L.A. Times, DOD believes that the bulk of the insurgents are NOT from Iran, but are "imported" fighters from Saudi Arabia.

To quickly paraphrase the article, 45% are from Saudi Arabia, and another 15% are from Syria and Lebanon. So, if anyone should be held accountable, it should be the Saudis, not the Iranians. The likelyhood of that happening, under the current Administration, is approximately that of yours truly being elected Pope.





[edit on 7/17/2007 by isolatedIncident]

Originally posted by shrunkensimon

I was under the impression that Iran had done nothing, and still isn't, doing anything wrong. It was America who provoked the current situation by insulting Iran and claiming it is developing nuclear weapons, all because it "needs to destroy Israel and in return ensure its own death, all for 72 virgins.."

Even if they were to develop nuclear weapons, it would have nothing to do with the fact that Israel was the first to introduce nuclear weapons into the MiddleEast, aswell as outright denying it for decades, despite evidence of the Dimona facility being brought to the worlds attention.. would it now?


America can not afford another war of terror. The only way it can is to enslave its population even more than it is at present.

But thats what you want, isn't it? You want to be "patriotic"..

Acually IRAN refused to allow the IAEA into the country in accordance with a UN mandate. So IRAN did do something wrong. So where theres smoke isnt there prob fire to? Futhuremore IRAN has been sabre rattling for decades against the west and Isreal so dont make IRAN out to be some nice little country with no hidden agenda. Remember the sacking of the US embassy? The blatent disregard for international requests on its nuclear ambitions? Oh thats right they need energy from the power plants, I guess being one of the worlds biggest oil producers isnt enough energy. Also how bout how they are Putting anyone who goes against the mullas in jail for life? Arresting your troops for being in international waters? Yes those are real nice things being done by a real nice government of IRAN.

Iran is the biggest support line for nearly every terrorist organization going today. And if you want proof of that statement here you go. Check the last link I think youll like that picture of two nobal diplomats.

abcnews.go.com...

www.crosswalk.com...

www.homelandsecurityus.com...

www.terrorism-info.org.il...

As far as Isreal bringing nukes into the area first, its prob the only thing that has kept thier country afloat. The US gave them thier first nukes as a deterant against the many Arab nations around them who litterally want them wiped off the face of the earth. Hmmmmmmmm who said that again recently?

And as far as Americans being enslaved, well the jury is still out there but last night I could still get in my car and go anywhere I wanted and do anything i wanted with-in the laws of this great country.


And yes most Americans me included are patriotic last I checked it has served us very well over the years huh?

Originally posted by geemony

As far as Isreal bringing nukes into the area first, its prob the only thing that has kept thier country afloat. The US gave them thier first nukes as a deterant against the many Arab nations around them who litterally want them wiped off the face of the earth. Hmmmmmmmm who said that again recently?

well no one actually since Ahmadinejad actually said "Our dear Imam [Khomeini] ordered that the zionist regime occupying Jerusalem be wiped off the face of the earth"

the likes of FOX news has twisted it through there own poor intereptations to fit there own adgenda.

Originally posted by BitDust
marg6043, seductive avatar Lady.
Iraq war is private business. Like any pirvate business, no one has constitutional right to know, to report to your princess self where, how, who, for what purpose, why, how much, when, to whom, costs, expencies, time, my buddies, names, amount, agenda, slack, sluts, money, poison, AMOUNT OF DEAD..and so on..
I kiss your ass

Bit dust you are way out of line. Marg has every right to voice her opinions without some Loser posting crap that doesnt make anysense what so ever. Just say no buddy, you'll feel so much better in the long run Trust me.
If you dont have anything worth while to post then just go play in the sand box with your GI joe with the Kung fu grip and leave the discussions to the intelligent conversationalist. I would venture to guess your not far from being banned so please come back on me with vengence so SPringer can drop the hammer finally. as ford fairlane would say "snapper head" !!!!

Originally posted by Harlequin
well no one actually since Ahmadinejad actually said "Our dear Imam [Khomeini] ordered that the zionist regime occupying Jerusalem be wiped off the face of the earth"

the likes of FOX news has twisted it through there own poor intereptations to fit there own adgenda.

Does it really matter who said it? Ahmadinejad is nothing more than a puppet for the mullas aganda anyway. Nothing gets done in IRAN with out the approval of the Mullas correct?

Originally posted by geemony

Bit dust you are way out of line. Marg has every right to voice her opinions without some Loser posting crap that doesnt make anysense what so ever.

Thanks for that geemoney, I think he is having a hard day today.

They've got two weeks. After that we reduce our firepower in the gulf drastically.

Originally posted by princeofpeace
The fact that we are reducing our presence in the gulf and not increasing it makes an attack on Iran more unlikely with each passing day. Not to mention that Foxnews reported last week that the military played out simulated wargames against Iran and they didnt like the outcome. They did not specify what the outcome was or suggest that it was defeat, only that they didnt like the way it turned out.

I would agree that IRAN is not a push over by any stretch. Way more organized and way more committed to thier government. The problum with IRAQ was that the army didnt really like Saddam or the direction he took them in. They ran at the drop of a bomb, then came back to either help the new government or fight the new government.

Iran on the other hand would be a different story for sure. IRAN has friends in China and Russia and they may not stand back and let the US take control of yet another major oil resource. If the US does go into IRAN it will be very bloody for America and may bring Russia and China into it as well. Very , very tough situation to call and would likely lead to the use of tactical nukes. I do think IRAN needs to be delt with, how thats done is beyond me at this point. Becasue if they do get a nuke or have the capability to launch a nuke I feel they wont hesitate to use it. So do we wait for them to use it or do we try and stop it cold now? REally tough nut to crack here.

Originally posted by ninthaxis
The economy will not be destroyed in war. Historically the economy thrives in such conditions. And they say history repeats itself. The bigger thing to worry is our brothers and sisters dying in a country we do not belong, for people with ulterior motives.

Although I would generally agree with your statement here I must disagree on this front. If we do go to war with Iran that will mean the $250 to $300 a barrel oil that was mentioned earlier. That alone will pretty much hamstring this economy.

Also, WHERE does the money for our wars come from? We BORROW it. Our national debt has nearly doubled during this administration because of this 'war' borrowing. We are nearing 10 trillion.

WHO do you think gets the money for this? Remember, it is fake money that comes at a very real and high cost. Our federal taxes barely pay the interest on these loans let alone pay any of the actual debt down. What's going to happen when the lenders come calling for the loans?

Really put some thought into this. The times of war helping the economy are past. That is what the initial wave into Iraq (this Bush around) did. It provided the boost needed for a lagging economy. Well, we are beyond that now. Another conflict with another ME country will push the economy over the brink. Yet another reason for declaring martial law.

I just wish people that are staunch Bush supporters on this site would stop staring at their star with rose colored glasses and start looking at all of the crap these guys are pulling. All of the laws they are breaking, the freedoms and rights they are removing. Wake up before it is too late.

I've already made the decision to move my family away from all major cities. We'll start living the simple life. I just hope that we have a country to live in once this group of money grubbing immorale jerks are done with it.

Originally posted by geemony
Becasue if they do get a nuke or have the capability to launch a nuke I feel they wont hesitate to use it. So do we wait for them to use it or do we try and stop it cold now? REally tough nut to crack here.

Allow me to play teh devil's advocate for a moment.

But what if you are wrong? That's what the problem is here. If you are wrong about Iran's intentions, then you are the villein. If you are right, you are a hero. If you are the first to strike, you automatically make yourself the villein.

Who are you (The USA) to say someone else can not have the same weapons you also possess? It is hypocritical. I am sure that as the USA and Soviets were becoming nuclear powers, some other country some where had to question our intentions as well. What if the UK had attacked the USA for making nukes?

This whole thing to me is a great big "who's got the biggest cock" contest with very serious consequences. As long as the USA has enough nukes to destroy the world 10 times over, they have no right to tell anyone else they can not do the same thing.

edited for spelling and phrasing.

[edit on 17-7-2007 by section8citizen]

Originally posted by Megadeth
Another thing to remember is that those of you who speak with a sane mind and speak of war in a bad way do NOT speak the same as the president!!

He simply does not think the same way you do or look at things the same way.
You can't assume that he does, because he is a madman with a destiny to fulfill.
He and his cohorts have put the world on its path and they will see it through.
What you see as too much and wrong he sees as necessary.
Your logic is not the same used by him.

This is the true..
So we could say that you dont know Dick! Personally atleast and the things he will do to complete the plan set out by his boss. I dont know who Dick Answers too, but I would like to know.. Becasue Bush is Dicks puppet, and Dick is a puppet too.. I would like to know who is pulling the strings.
Dick is nothing more than a comman thug, he answers to someone that is higher up than him.
I just hope they dont attack Iran. That would be a bold and very bad move on the part of the USA. Propaganda makes most people think Iran is such a bad place! You ever been there? live there? Most stuff comming out of the USA media is all bias and full of lies. The only way is to see it for youself. But then you have the same propaganda on Irans peoples side, who see us as BAD!! Its not the people who are bad, its our Government!! I hope people of the world see this!! Most Americans are good hearted people who are ready for a change. Its sad that so many people are brainwashed into thinking this would be a justified War, for any reason!!!

However much they'd love--simply love--to go to war with Iran, they just can't. Already got us one monumental, endless mess with Iraq, and no troops, no money, no support from the top brass, and the results of those war games, which undoubtedly predicted 2 or 3 carriers and about half the Sixth fleet at the bottom of the Gulf (Putin's seeded Iran and Syria with some very fast, very low-flying, very nasty anti-ship missiles the US Navy admits it has no defense against).

So then why this article, now? Why are they trying to convince everyone they're warmongers & lunatics? On a simple psy-ops level, they like the idea of scaring Iran, and doubtless get their jollies off it, but this is meant more for domestic consumption than for over there--the Iranians are in a pretty good situation and they know it.

I think this is a really warped attempt to cut-off the congressional push to disengage in Iraq, by suggesting several ideas at once: that Iraq is essential to hold onto because its a bulwark against the crazy mullahs in Iran, and that Iraq must continue because it has now turned into a proxy war with Iran, and so now we can't withdraw, because we have to engage them and thwart them somehow.

All this has to be true, because, heck, Darth Dick is ready to nuke 'em. So be grateful it's just Iraq. And now just shut up and vote us the money before we let Dick out of his undisclosed bunker.

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
I was under the impression that Iran had done nothing, and still isn't, doing anything wrong. It was America who provoked the current situation by insulting Iran and claiming it is developing nuclear weapons, all because it "needs to destroy Israel and in return ensure its own death, all for 72 virgins.."

Even if they were to develop nuclear weapons, it would have nothing to do with the fact that Israel was the first to introduce nuclear weapons into the MiddleEast, aswell as outright denying it for decades, despite evidence of the Dimona facility being brought to the worlds attention.. would it now?

...

Attacking Iran will result in Israel being destroyed.

If you think Iran has done "nothing" to provoke the current situation then you are living in a fantasy world. Now, don't get me wrong - the Iraq war was, and is, ridiculous. It was completely unnecessary, seeing as Saddam was as harmless as a kitten to the US and its allies. *However*, it is a necessary stepping stone to Iran, which I believe has always been the ultimate goal.

Keep in mind that Iran is THE destabilizing force in the middle-east. They train and supply a vast majority of the hostile forces in the region, including Hezbolla. If it wasn't for Iran, Israel would have half the troubles it has been dealing with for the past 10 years. Also, Iran strengthens the countries around it such as Syria, who would be nothing if not for Iranian influence.

Bearing this in mind, accusing Israel of introducing nukes to the middle-east is ridiculous. Yes, Israel's nuclear program is a secret, but it is a long running joke that it is the worst kept secret in the world. And saying Israel having nukes encourages Iran to develop them is equally ridiculous. Israel doesn't flaunt its arsenal and doesn't threaten other countries with it, which is exactly what Iran will do once it acquires the nukes it is currently building. If Iran wasn't the big thorn in the western world's ass that it currently is, and wasn't developing its own nukes, it would have nothing to worry about from Israel. These nukes are entirely meant as defense, and not for intimidation.

However, at the same time, Israel will NOT hesitate to use its nukes should Iran attempt to attack the country. Should Iran send out any of its missiles that they boast are aimed at Israeli cities, prepare to have Tehran flattened. Israel, unlike the USA, won't care what the hypocritical International Community would have to say on the subject.

[edit on 17-7-2007 by Amberite]

Originally posted by Megadeth

Speaking of proof that Iran is sending insurgents and weapons, only yesterday I saw on the news a US Military leader claiming that over 300 rockets found pointed at us troops were marked "made in Iran".

Oh my yes, and they were stamped in ENGLISH, not Persian or Farsi.

Hmmm, now I wonder why that was?

Take care to at least check what is on the spoon they are trying to shove down your throat BEFORE you swallow it.

Im sorry, Iran has done nothing wrong. The UN is not the world police, and has no right to be used in the biased way it is by America and the corporate elite.

Iran is not the destabilizing force.. IT IS ISRAEL.

You either see that simple truth, or you don't. Im not going to go any further, but im struggling to hold myself back, because the truth is so blatently obvious it hurts me to have to even say what im saying here. Israel is the cause of all the problems in the Middle East. It was placed where it was for ONE reason only, and its creation was because of a phony world war organised by the international bankers, who helped fund Hitler, and give rise to the slaughter of not just Jewish people, but many other innocent people.

Im sick and tired of people just blaiming Iran. The current situation is NO different from that with Iraq. Same motive, same arguments, same accusations, and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO PROVE THEM.

Israel is the terrorist here, not Iran. And it is funded by American families, with their fat dollar bills, helping sustain the corporate government and all its various tentacles, allowing them to donate ridiculous amounts of money to Israel, aswell as weapons.

Garh! Why must people be so blind. If Iran is attacked, its game over. I don't think enough people realise this!

Originally posted by dariousg

Although I would generally agree with your statement here I must disagree on this front. If we do go to war with Iran that will mean the $250 to $300 a barrel oil that was mentioned earlier. That alone will pretty much hamstring this economy.

Also, WHERE does the money for our wars come from? We BORROW it. Our national debt has nearly doubled during this administration because of this 'war' borrowing. We are nearing 10 trillion.

WHO do you think gets the money for this? Remember, it is fake money that comes at a very real and high cost. Our federal taxes barely pay the interest on these loans let alone pay any of the actual debt down. What's going to happen when the lenders come calling for the loans?

Really put some thought into this. The times of war helping the economy are past. That is what the initial wave into Iraq (this Bush around) did. It provided the boost needed for a lagging economy. Well, we are beyond that now. Another conflict with another ME country will push the economy over the brink. Yet another reason for declaring martial law.

dariousg..... Super Post here and very true. War cannot be sustained for decades with out some spoils coming in that’s a given. I would have to suggest this is the main reason we went to IRAQ first. They would have to insure their success by banking a high oil producing country so when the real agenda is put in motion the US would have the oil to continue the fight without paying high cost when IRAN’s oil is blocked from export. The US doesn’t get any oil from IRAN so the loss of the Iranian supply will only hurt other countries say like China and Russia. They will not allow this to happen of course. The oil in IRAQ will be used by the US to continue the fight and to supply Russia and China but i dont think they will have that either. anyway thats what i think on that no proof just thoughts.

I think this plays into why there has been very little reconstruction in IRAQ with regards to Infrastructure, this would use huge amounts of oil and take from the kitty.

I would also like to discuss the debt and who is owed the money. I see this as an Israel, US back room deal. IMO Jewish power is very well entrenched into our banking Industry both federally and commercially and the debt will be allowed to roll unhindered as long as the US does their bidding. I also think a lot of the funding will come from IRAN itself. Seems back in January the US started to freeze bank assets held by IRAN.

Nothing like using the enemies money against them right?

www.jpost.com...

www.ynetnews.com...

The fuel prices in America would be held in check as long as the IRAQI oil keeps flowing our way and the proposed Afghanistan oil surveying turn up new fields and the proposed pipelines through Afghanistan are built.

members.localnet.com...

The real reason we are waging war in the Middle East is for nothing more than securing oil for our energy needs. The supply of Global oil is running out and the time has come for the industrialized nations to fight for it. The US got a jump on things with our invention of the war on terror. Shoot, terrorism was not born on 911. It just provided the powers that be with the opportunity to advance their agenda to control world oil supplies.

Anyway that’s my twisted take on things its my story and im sticking to it.

Edit for punc.

[edit on 17-7-2007 by geemony]

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
Im sorry, Iran has done nothing wrong. The UN is not the world police, and has no right to be used in the biased way it is by America and the corporate elite.

Iran is not the destabilizing force.. IT IS ISRAEL.

...

Israel is the terrorist here, not Iran. And it is funded by American families, with their fat dollar bills, helping sustain the corporate government and all its various tentacles, allowing them to donate ridiculous amounts of money to Israel, aswell as weapons.

Are you for real? Have you ever BEEN to Israel? Have you ever talked to an Israeli? How you can say Israel is a terrorist state is appalling. Israel has never started a war without being provoked, and in fact most of their military confrontations deal with them being attacked (often times by 2, 3, even 4 countries) and their subsequent self-defense.

And please, do not get into the subject of the "oppressed" Palestinians. If you actually look at some history, you will notice that Palestinians were offered land and citizenship in the 50s when Israel was formed, by the Israeli government. It was their outright anti-semitical views and utter refusal to live among Jews, along with their exile (yes, exile) by their neighboring Arab countries that made the Palestinians the refugees they are today. Add to this an absolute inability to live like normal human beings, a corrupt "government" focused on Israel's destruction, and self-imposed squalor meant to drive people to terrorism, and you've got the reason why Israel has to impose on them the conditions they do. Israel has tried many times to sign peace accords only to be bombed the next year.

Give me one, ONE, good example of how Israel is the enemy and Iran is innocent. And by this, I mean an example where Israel wasn't forced to do something in response or in prevention of aggressive acts (be it Palestinian, Hezbolla, Syrian forces, etc).

I can't even dare to dream how many countries and how many people America would be "oppressing" if they had to deal with terrorist attacks on an everyday basis like Israel does.

[edit on 18-7-2007 by Amberite]

Originally posted by section8citizen

Originally posted by geemony
Becasue if they do get a nuke or have the capability to launch a nuke I feel they wont hesitate to use it. So do we wait for them to use it or do we try and stop it cold now? REally tough nut to crack here.

Allow me to play teh devil's advocate for a moment.

But what if you are wrong? That's what the problem is here. If you are wrong about Iran's intentions, then you are the villein. If you are right, you are a hero. If you are the first to strike, you automatically make yourself the villein.

Who are you (The USA) to say someone else can not have the same weapons you also possess? It is hypocritical. I am sure that as the USA and Soviets were becoming nuclear powers, some other country some where had to question our intentions as well. What if the UK had attacked the USA for making nukes?

This whole thing to me is a great big "who's got the biggest cock" contest with very serious consequences. As long as the USA has enough nukes to destroy the world 10 times over, they have no right to tell anyone else they can not do the same thing.

edited for spelling and phrasing.

[edit on 17-7-2007 by section8citizen]

I do see your point for sure S8C and I do agree that its a bit hypocritical for the International community to suggest IRAN should not have nuclear power. They have every right to have nuclear power IMHO. but at the same time The rest of the world isnt stateing thier goal is to wipe another country off the map. With nukes comes great responsibility , and im not sure that doesnt play into it as well. Would you trust a country with nukes who states regularly that its intention is to wipe another country off the map.

Look if IRAN wants nuclear power for energy needs then fine allow inspectors into the country to make sure its safe. Thats all IRAN had to do here. but no they want to be rouge and say its thier right to have nuclear power. Well you know thats right they do have the right but they dont have the right to keep the IAEA from inspecting thier operation. IRAN agreed to being a part of the UN so by that they are bound by its rules and processes. All they have to do is play nice with others but they dont do that so they piss the whole international community off in the process.

Seriously if they have nothing to hide then why refuse inspections. Come on WTF is that.

The control of the middle eastern nations that produces oil or let said the last reserves of oil in the world.

Is not for us American needs, let me remind you that WE also produce oil and still pay higher prices than other countries also producing oil.

This about the needs of global energies and be able to control who and how much they get and to control the markerts and growing economies like China, India and Asia, they do not produce oil.

This about power, control and greed.

We still in the US do not have enough refineries to be able to increased our domestic production and is not enough refineries to take the high demands of oil coming from Iraq or Iran.

IF any of you think that this is for us you are mistaken.

Originally posted by shrunkensimon
Im sorry, Iran has done nothing wrong. The UN is not the world police, and has no right to be used in the biased way it is by America and the corporate elite.

Dude the UN is the world police plain and simple. Every country that is a member of the UN has agreed that the UN will step in when they see things arnt right. Whether they abide by the UN mandates is totally up to them. But they risk sanctions and military consequesces. Also the US is in hot water with the UN to buddy becasue we do pretty much anything we want to with or with out the UN backing. Why because we pay the cost to be the boss. The USA is the biggest contributor to various UN programs around the world and always steps up when a disaster happens anywhere in the world. Who helps the US out when someting like that happens to us? not many at all you can believe it.

The US only askes the UN for assistence out of respect. DO we need thier approval? of course not but its all about respect. And i think the USA has earned the worlds respect for every thing we have done for other countries over the years. But unfortunatly respect is out the door at this point. Terrorist respect nothing so its survival of the fittest from here on out IMO.