the system depends on MATERIALISM over everything else

Originally posted by seenitall
Chill not everyone comes on every day.

Seven days now.

And he's been posting on other threads in the meantime.

cpdaman, where are you?

Its simple, if we don't want to live in a material world the government ( in Canada at least ) should stop giving Companies tax breaks for advertising.
It effects the subconscious and turns ppl in to materialistic morons.

I never want anything i always buy stuff when i need it.
The university i went to was full off materialistic competition it was pathetic.

I personally think that materialism will run its course in due time. Most people are in current times figuring out that money and material goods doesn't make the person. There are only a minority who truly believe that, and the cultural perception that everyone in our society thinks that it is true. Materialism is a word of yesterday, not today or the future. The new word is media...think youtube. And everyone knows you don't have to buy media anymore.

We are beginning to see through the guise of advertising promises.
I actually have an advertising background, marketers know that there is mass advertising fatigue nationwide and worldwide. That is why the next wave of advertising will be anti-advertising. There are anti-advertising on the air right now, geared towards the younger set. It is great and oddly non-materialistic in message. A satirical take on traditional advertisements and their claims if you want to think about it that way. VW has been doing it very well for years.

I think one of the greatest misnomers of the materialistic age is that buying stuff will get you laid, that has always been the best and "worst" selling point for many companies. I know broke musicians who were the same clothes everyday that get more tail than the rich guys wearing the thousand dollar suits and driving the +$75,000 Benz. It's all in the perception. What the media tells you to perceive is usually wrong, because they ARE trying to sell you something.

Anyway, greed is very human nature, but so is sharing. I would have to agree with Astyanax on the most of his assertions, especially in the real "moral fraud" is the concept of money itself.

I think if you "need" any status symbol or material possession to feel good about yourself, you lead a sad life anyhow. We really have no one to blame, but ourselves.

The Straw Man

Originally posted by frailty
I personally think that materialism will run its course in due time.

But what do we mean by materialism? Do we mean this?

Materialism
1. Belief that only physical things truly exist. Materialists claim (or promise) to explain every apparent instance of a mental phenomenon as a feature of some physical object.

This is the classic and most accurate definition of materialism. Materialism is a school of philosophy. I am a materialist.

Or do we mean something like these?

Materialism
2. Preoccupation with or emphasis on material objects, comforts, and considerations, with a disinterest in or rejection of spiritual, intellectual, or cultural values [my bolding]. - Dictionary.com

3. The theory or attitude that physical well-being and worldly possessions constitute the greatest good and highest value in life. - American Heritage Dictionary

4. A great or excessive regard for worldly concerns. - American Heritage Dictionary

Materialism is a philosophical position held by very few ordinary men and women. They might behave as if there were no more to life than goods and chattels, getting and spending; but if you asked them about it, most would tell you that they valued a great many things in life above material goods and pleasures. Among these 'higher things', they might mention God (or gods), love, karma, freedom, hope, spirituality, kindness to fellow creatures, truth, beauty... lots of things, actually. The list goes on and on.

You can't call people who believe in such things materialists, no matter how they act. You can accuse them of acting at variance with their beliefs.

So materialism itself is a straw man. It may be a symptom of what is wrong with us or with society. But if you're looking to find the cause of all the trouble and wickedness in the world, you'd better look elsewhere.

Now the OP would put the blame on a group of rich, powerful conspirators who manipulate humanity to their own ends. This is, of course, a conspiracy theory -- a fantasy. A moment's reflection will show us that it cannot possibly be true.

I, on the other hand, put the blame on our human nature. If there is a solution to the troubles of the world, I believe that it will come from recognizing this, taking the blame (if there is any blame to be taken) for ourselves and our actions, and moving forward from there.

Unfortunately, we can't do this until we rid ourselves of one of the greatest handicaps we suffer as a species. That handicap is religion. Sadly, it will not go quietly.

Look: how do we get from the first definition (which is a purely technical one) to the second set of definitions? We get there -- or rather, we are hijacked and taken there -- by that ole debil religion.

(Materialism) is incompatible with Islam, Hinduism, some schools of Buddhism and almost all forms of Christianity.

It is the religious who claim that materialism is hostile to morality. Theirs is a mindset that views atheists as wicked, amoral creatures and which insists there can be no morality without religion. The truth is very different, as anyone whose vision has not been fogged by faith can easily see.

Religion is a priori immoral, since it is based on two lies: that the thing being worshipped protects its followers and that it answers prayers. Given this foundation in falsehood, it is hardly surprising that religion has done far more damage to humanity than anything else -- certainly materialism -- ever has.

Note
'Faith users' (I think that's a fairly nonpejorative term, don't you?) who wish to take issue with any of the above statements concerning religion are welcome to do so -- but not in this thread. Start another thread and u2u me, or direct me to an existing thread the same way, and we'll talk there. This thread is about something else; let's keep it like that.