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Marine: Unit Was Ordered to 'Crank Up Violence Level' in Iraq

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posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by xpert11
........... even if the claims are later disproved the enemy will have gained an ease propaganda victory. The enemy will look to use such claims for propaganda purposes and milk them for all there worth.


Forgive my ignorance here xpert, but what 'enemy' will gain a propaganda victory?
Furthurmore, once this shadowy 'enemy' has gained a 'propaganda' victory, how exactly will they 'milk' it for all its worth?


Is the 'enemy' the Iraqi civilians?
The Shiites? The Sunnis? The Christians, Jews and Muslims too?
Is it 'Al-quada', the super elusive group that is more powerful now, after six years of all out war, than they were before we started this debacle?
Who is this damn 'enemy' so we can finally say

Mission Accomplished!






posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Originally posted by esdad71
4. The only person we have saying that they should ratchet up the violence is a "marine" who was criticized and he is now speaking out. Does this sound the least bit suspicious to anyone else like maybe he is trying to blame his mistake in someone else in orde to get off...


The marine (Lopezromo) providing this testimony for the defense and claiming that his unit was acting under orders was not part of the squad on the late night mission where the alleged incident occurred.


He was not part of the squad that he is testifying against. He was arrested for an incident that occured 2 weeks prior and this is testimony he offered.

Again, I got nothing from FOXNEWS. Please keep up with the posts, read everything and comment accordingly.



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
He was not part of the squad that he is testifying against. He was arrested for an incident that occured 2 weeks prior and this is testimony he offered.


Exactly, except he is not testifying against anyone, he is testifying for the defense.



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 10:40 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
I woke up and smelt the coffee on 9/11 and realized that the world around does not like the country that I live in.

You are allowed to believe what you want, but I must tell you that is a very shallow view of the world.
Even IF you swallow every salty drop of the official version of what occured on 911, to follow that up and swallow the steaming pile of 'they hate our freedoms' is just too much.

esdad, I am here to tell you as somebody who has been on the ground in Iraq, they dont hate the country we live in.
They dont even hate Americans.
Many of them dont like things our government has done. ( arming Saddam, installing the Shah, Iran Contra, Supporting oppressive regimes, etc)
Many of them also dont like, or understand our governments one-sided support of Israel.
They have a plethora of reasons not to like the U.S. Government.
THey dont hate you or the country you live in pal, thats just what the government told you so you would get mad.
Imagine if the government had come out and said "Terrorists attacked us because of covert actions we have taken in the past"
That doesnt sell war though, now does it?



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 10:48 PM
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Check the following vid out to see who our proud Military is getting its orders from, than make your informed comment about the War!!!!!




posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 10:48 PM
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11Bravo the enemy is the insurgents who murder innocent people on an regular basis and who's aim it is to undermine the elected government in Iraq. Well the claims would certainly make the US military look bad and if the claims are later found to be untrue the enemy will hardly point this out.

If the local population can be convinced that all coalition military personal are murders the locals will side with the insurgents which helps them no end.

Enemy propaganda could get a lot of mileage out of something like this much like the Goebbels reporting the sinking of the Ark Royal numerous times.



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by xpert11
11Bravo the enemy is the insurgents who murder innocent people on an regular basis and who's aim it is to undermine the elected government in Iraq. Well the claims would certainly make the US military look bad and if the claims are later found to be untrue the enemy will hardly point this out.



OK news flash, we've been the enemy of the Iraqi people for some time now.

We ousted Saddam, fine. We should have left over four years ago. I have no problem with taking out Saddam, we put him there in the first place. It only makes sense that after he was proven to be a madman to remove him from office.

However, we have become the enemies after our continued occupation of Iraqi soil.

We beat the Iraqi military in less than a week, but stayed for over four years to help them decide what to do.

Well what has been done? Nothing so far. The Iraqi 'Constitution' is in shambles, politicans whether Iraqi or American never fix anything. They only create a larger rift between 'classes' in society.

en.wikipedia.org...


They need a revolution just as much as we do to overthrow their current form of government.

Let the people rule, not representatives.

We need a direct democracy just as much as every other citizen of this world does.

Enough with bought and paid for politicians, lets get some real people to help run this place with the help of the people. Not to control the people, not to manipulate the people, but to cooperate.

Is that too much to ask?


Iraq war wasn't justified UN weapons inspectors say

Failure in Iraq




Can we please for the love of God just bring our men and women home and let the Iraqis finally deal with their own country?

We have our own problems at home. We should all sign an apology card for letting them be screwed over by US and extremist groups and just go home.

Sorry buddies
.





And that's a conservative number


TEAM AMERICA WORLD POLICE:






Where are we at now in Iraq?

[edit on 15-7-2007 by biggie smalls]



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 10:59 PM
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xpert11 - I thought the enemy were Al Queda and the terrorists. An insurgancy usually comes from the rising up of a local population because a foreign country is invading and occupying your Country.



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 11:40 PM
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It's people like esdad that make this site suck so much. He doesn't even seem to grasp what the subject of the OP's post is about, and seems completely unwilling to even try. Then says things like glenn beck is unbiased.!.?...yeah right. If everything is such a non-issue, then why do people like him join a conspiracy forum in the first place?

Nothing personal esdad. Just think of it as another non-issue.

Mod Edit: Please Review the Following Link: Courtesy Is Mandatory

[edit on 16-7-2007 by DontTreadOnMe]



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 11:53 PM
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Originally posted by hoochymama
xpert11 - I thought the enemy were Al Queda and the terrorists. An insurgancy usually comes from the rising up of a local population because a foreign country is invading and occupying your Country.


Err the media and the Bush admin portray Al-Qaeda as the bogeyman in order to dumb down the war for public consummation . The other problem with your assertion is that the primary target of the insurgents is other Iraqis and not coalition forces. On another note the coalition isnt the enemy of the Iraqi people the Islamic extremists are the enemy here.




Al-Qaeda, Powell asserted, was only 10% of the problem in Iraq and Nouri al-Maliki, its prime minister, lacked the political will to establish an effective government. After a promising start to the surge at the beginning of the year, 453 unidentified corpses were found on the streets of Baghdad last month, 41% more than the 321 bodies found in January, according to unofficial Iraqi health ministry statistics.


source

[edit on 15-7-2007 by xpert11]



posted on Jul, 16 2007 @ 12:40 AM
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Sorry, but I understand the OP, I am simply stating a seperate view which is what makes this site so great. Why would you want to live in a world where everyone thinks the same. Nothing would change and nothing would get done. If you took me, 11bravo and dgtempe and put us in a room, we would come out with 3 initiatives and not one. It is people such as yourself who blindly hump on the bandwagon that scare me.

Also. when I say I woke up on 9/11, it meant that the threat was real on US soil. We were a nation who could not be hurt and we were. I think our government has made some missteps in foriegn policy but I do not blindly follow. We should have left Iraq 4 years ago, but if we did we would be fighting to get back in and there would be no green zone. We went to Iraq with specific intent to make sure we have concrete to land on and bases to occupy because we were going to be there awhile. Whether or not 9/11 happened, we were going. They just struck first.

Also, these guys are in combat. WTF should you say..

"Now boys, there are going ot be IED's and snipers and maybe even some insurgent activity so keep a sharp eye out, OK? Make sure you have water, have a nice day and move out..."

or
" Get the # out there and kill some of those ragheaded cocksuckers that buried your brothers ...Hoo-Rah Marines...move the # out..."!

Sorry for the profanity, but war is not Fox Sunday.



posted on Jul, 16 2007 @ 01:33 AM
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Great vid linked by Hoochymama in the posts above,its disgusting those cowards will get away with their lies that have resulted in so many deaths and increased the tension across the world!
Hopefully my american brothers across the pond can add Tony Blair,Cambell and the rest who acted in this dirty little lie to these type of vids.Without our SPINING and lying i dont think there would have been a war.
As for the original post about cranking up the violence in Iraq,yep i think more than just the marines are being told to have fun that way!A couple of years ago sas troops dressed as arabs where arrested with bombs and dodgy stuff-then they where broken out of jail!
But here is the dodgy stuff.A few months later i saw an online repot from Iraqi police that they had been invlolved in a fire fight with two sas teams in seperate cars near basara.One two man team had died when their car exploded in the resulting exchange of fire that also killed police there.The other team retreated and exploaded their car before vanishing!

This loss of life was never mentioned in the media-perhaps they where elite mercs who are doing this job and its easy to deny it?



posted on Jul, 16 2007 @ 02:48 AM
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A war of profit that now only perpetuates itself by aggravation and eradication. This is what we are seeing.

It is abundantly clear Iraq was better under Saddam Hussein, a man much maligned by propaganda war, who never should of been removed.



posted on Jul, 16 2007 @ 06:40 AM
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The monsters (marines) that commit such atrocities and their commanding officers will surely get their Karma.


No wonder the good people of the world have such a dislike for the US military and Government.

i just feel sorry for the real American people who either have to put up with the sh*t that happens out of their hands and the other Americans who still swallow the bullsh*t that they are the 'good guys'.

Sad



posted on Jul, 16 2007 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by hoochymama
The bottom line, whether these are the Marines or the Army, is that they FOLLOW ORDERS. These Soldiers MUST follow orders or be kicked out of whatever affiliation of the Military Industrial Complex they are apart of.



These Soldiers are brainwashed to the extreme and do not make there own rules. The RULES are handed down from there superiors. There Superiors have there orders as well and they DO NOT QUESTION THERE ORDERS.



The Bush Regime needs to go down and fast.




This is simply not true, soldiers are trained to follow orders unless the order given is not a lawfull order as per the UCMJ. "uniform code of military justice" An example of a unlawfull order would be to kill innocent people. The directive of any soldier is to stand up for those who cant protect themselves bottom line.

Brainwashed? LOL give me a break, Soldiers are absolutly trained to distinquish lawful orders from unlawful orders. Are there rouge officers in the military? Im sure there is but dont lump every soldier into your sterotypeing and lableing. The same (brainwashing) could be said of everyone who blindly agrees with something before they do thier own research. I see alot of that here on ATS!!!


ill give you this one because i dont feel this administration is doing the right things. Maybe they are lining their pockets, prob are but that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. This unit took matters into thier own hands and now they cry "I was following orders" to try and save thier collective asses.

In Addition;

I am ex Military (Army) and I wasn’t brain washed as you state. Yes we are trained to kill the enemy and trained to follow orders. However we are also trained to know what a lawful order is and what is not. Telling the troops to ratchet up the violence and commit murder is not a Lawful order and should not be carried out. These soldiers took matters into their own hands and should be punished. Sad as it may be many of our young men and women are put into situations that they simply can’t deal with. Situations they simply aren’t trained well enough for or have ever been in before. The result is a lack of discipline on the battle field and snap decisions which often result with horrible circumstances. Plain and simple this unit couldn’t find their target so they killed an innocent human and tried to cover it up by placing the AK47 in the hands of the dead man.
My point is dont blame the Military in whole for a botched mission. I would say the leader of this squad was the main problum here and did not follow the rules of engagement.

I don’t believe this order was ever given to the unit and until I see concrete evidence to show they were told to push the violence then all we have here are soldiers who committed murder under the banner of oh well its war so S happens.

The Military is no different than real life in that individuals will be held accountable for their actions. This soldier is no different and should be held accountable for his actions.

I find it concerning that here most blame the Army not the individual. Must not be too many people here who have actually been in the military and know of what I speak, as far as how soldiers are trained. So until you join the military and stand a post don’t presume to know anything about it!!!

Edited becasue im an idiot and couldnt figure out how to quote and respond properly.






[edit on 16-7-2007 by geemony]



posted on Jul, 16 2007 @ 08:32 AM
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Since just last week the President of Iraq said the Americans can leave any time we want, I think we should do just that - get out NOW. If he wants to prove that Iraq really CAN do a better job to bring their own people under control and unite the country, let's let him prove it! Let's bring our people home, out of harm's way, so that IF (as Mr. Bush keeps telling us) they're (the terrorists) are swimming across the oceans to attack us as he speaks ... OUR troops will be HERE, to defend US!



posted on Jul, 16 2007 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Exactly, except he is not testifying against anyone, he is testifying for the defense.


I beg to differ, he is testifying against the Unit commanders and against the Marine corps in General with his hearsay statements. He prob made some back room deal with the defence to try and get a lesser sentence for his crime. I wouldnt put it pass the anti war advocates to make up any story that would paint a bad picture of our military.



posted on Jul, 16 2007 @ 09:21 AM
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Originally posted by SteveR
It is abundantly clear Iraq was better under Saddam Hussein, a man much maligned by propaganda war, who never should of been removed.


Your right a Dictator who himself ordered the deaths of hundred of thousands of his fellow countrymen, as well as useing mustard gas against women and children in northen IRAQ. As wel as killing anyone who opposed his rule. Nice guy huh ? Sounds to me like he had his peoples best interest at heart doesnt it?

Believe me Saddam reaped just exactly what he sowed.



posted on Jul, 16 2007 @ 09:24 AM
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Originally posted by Tweaked
Since just last week the President of Iraq said the Americans can leave any time we want, I think we should do just that - get out NOW. If he wants to prove that Iraq really CAN do a better job to bring their own people under control and unite the country, let's let him prove it! Let's bring our people home, out of harm's way, so that IF (as Mr. Bush keeps telling us) they're (the terrorists) are swimming across the oceans to attack us as he speaks ... OUR troops will be HERE, to defend US!


Yes I heard Maliki make that statement and i would veture to guess that as soon as the US leaves IRAQ. Iran would annex IRAQ and all sunnies would be killed or expelled.



posted on Jul, 16 2007 @ 11:07 AM
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It is hard to be a Marine in this war. ( or a ground soldier period )

It has now become a game of chance, with the odds against the players.
There hasn't been a draft, and so we see many servicemen doing three,
maybe four tours in this war zone. (At least in Vietnam, the draft gave us
a huge "pool" of soldiers to draw from and to "rotate" in and out of harm's
way. It was fairly rare to have more than one "tour" in the war zone
unless it was voluntary.) These current Marines and Soldiers are under
extreme pressure ( as well as under orders ), to go back time and time
again. Some have had their tours "extended" more than once. This means
that after surviving for a year and being ready to leave for home, you're
ordered to stay an additional three or four months. The odds get longer.

The OP seems to hint that a conspiracy might exist where flagrant abuses
might be encouraged, or even ordered. IMO that doesn't sound too far-
fetched. You can't "sell" a war if everyone plays by the rules. Keeping the
war in front of everyone's eyes is easier if sensationalism is constant.
If nothing bad is happening, start some bad s#*! yourself.
Keep that money coming! To hell with peace. To hell with truth.



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