Originally posted by esdad71
Should they be held accountable for killing the wrong man, yes, but they should be given 2 tours instead of jail time.

So, a second tour in Iraq would be sufficient punishment for murder?

I suppose you would be right, if they were simply following orders.

Given recent developments another tour in Iraq may make prison time look like a better option.

Originally posted by marg6043
What an immoral and dirty war, the rumors going around are always as real as the truth of the realities of this dirty war.

This is sickening and i would have to be convinced it ISNT happening.

Disgusting, despicable, and i dont have any doubt about any of this.

This is mindbogling.

Originally posted by UM_Gazz
They see all Iraqi men as part of the insurgency?

If so then ALL Iraqi men would be legitimate targets in this "war". Right?

Then its going to be damn hard to ever 'win.'

If everyone is an enemy, how do we plan on ever having a successful 'war?'



This is absolute insanity.

I bet the order was given by Bushie/Cheney themselves...

I guess what they want is a never ending war on terrorism. Well they got what they wished for.

[edit on 15-7-2007 by biggie smalls]

The bottom line, whether these are the Marines or the Army, is that they FOLLOW ORDERS. These Soldiers MUST follow orders or be kicked out of whatever affiliation of the Military Industrial Complex they are apart of.


These Soldiers are brainwashed to the extreme and do not make there own rules. The RULES are handed down from there superiors. There Superiors have there orders as well and they DO NOT QUESTION THERE ORDERS.

The Bush Regime needs to go down and fast.

Originally posted by hoochymama



These Soldiers are brainwashed to the extreme and do not make there own rules. The RULES are handed down from there superiors. There Superiors have there orders as well and they DO NOT QUESTION THERE ORDERS.

The Bush Regime needs to go down and fast.

AMEN- i couldnt have said it better myself!

Lets hope we wake up one day soon and he'll have been locked up along with Dickey overnight tighter than a drum in a padded cell.

That would make me awful happy.

I dont care who doesnt like it. That would be the day when i dress up in RED/WHITE/BLUE, take out all my flags and drive down the street honking and waving my flag. Its a fantasy of mine.

this has nothing to do with the BUSH regime. Everything you were saying was fine till the partisan slip.

They are soldiers. They are Marines. They are trained to do one thing, and that is kill. they are not peacekeepers, that is what the UN is for.

Of all of the men they killed, they made a mistake and killed the wrong one. They should be punished, but to put them in jail is a waste in my eyes. They are fighters, they were trained for what they do and if you have ever known a Marine, which I know one poster here is married to one, you know that they are a different breed.

What I was trying to show is that the article speaks of the actions but not the orders that they had to follow. There is no way in the world that I would want to be in the shoes of someone who needs to kick in doors everyday to find those who WANT to kill you but that is the job they asked for. They are not guardsmen from ND, they are Marines. That does not make it right, but it shows how.

Also, I will reiterate, that the Marines killed people before Bush was in office.

I would agree with you except the ORDERS WERE TO "CRANK UP THE VIOLENCE".....

Esssssssdad,

Yes, the Marines kill people. Period. We are talking about orders to CRANK UP THE VIOLENCE LEVEL so that the war has no end and so that we cannot leave there. And so that Bush's war can continue, and so that we can continue our mission all over the middle east killing those bad people who want us dead.

Esdad, in all honesty, one day you are going to have to wake up and smell the coffee and doughnuts and realize that not everything you hear on Fox is true. I appreciate your consistency in your views, and i also appreciate the fact that you are civil when you post. I admire you never losing your cool.

I'm not trying to get you mad at me, but do you honestly think that all is as good as you paint it?
Its ok to have mixed views, its ok to like one thing about this administration and dislike another....But everything for you now is SO perfect that it leaves me wondering. The Republicans are screaming fowl and you continue waving your flag and never waiver.
For example, i liked Clinton, but i saw his flaws, i realized that he made mistakes which cost him.
See what i mean?

Do you see anything you dont like recently with this administration? To say so would not make you a traitor. You can still be a Republican, even if you find some fault and its ok.

Anyway, i am overly critical, and i know it - i'm also consistent and will not waiver under any circumstance, but when Bush gives a coherent speech, or he says something good i acknowledge it.

Think about what i'm saying.

If you really and truly think that Bush is the next best thing since apple pie, i will respect that as well.

Originally posted by dgtempe
...one day you are going to have to wake up and smell the coffee and doughnuts and realize that not everything you hear on Fox is true.

Did you see the source link for the original news article in the opening post?

Can you smell the irony?

Ultimately, we should wait, spare the political harshness, we can attempt to ask questions, but ultimately this is a court case, and the jury is still out, so to speak.

Again, if the allegations are true in this case, we do not know how far up the chain of command these orders came down from.

As I said before, personally I hope this is an isolated case involving a very few. If proven to go much farther, and involve a great number, and goes up through the chain of command, the implications in that case would be dramatic, and serious, with possible real impact on this war, and combat operations.

We'll just have to wait and see.

Well if Cpl. Trent D. Thomas only defence is that he was following orders then I would say that he is heading for an long stretch in an jail cell. As for the allegations that officers in effect ordered what amounts to war crimes I am just going to take an wait and see approach and see how things pan out.

Originally posted by esdad71
They are fighters, they were trained for what they do and if you have ever known a Marine, which I know one poster here is married to one, you know that they are a different breed.

My husband is a Retired Marine with 22 years of service and he was not a killer.

People need to stop justifying the incredible corrupted leaders of this nation that are using our soldiers to fight their dirty and corrupted wars for profits.

My Marine husband was not a killer He was a Marine but a human being also. . .

I woke up and smelt the coffee on 9/11 and realized that the world around does not like the country that I live in.

1. BUSH did not give the order so keep politics out of it. There are not republicans and democrats in the army, they are all soldiers.

2. THey are Marines, and they were following orders and they killed the wrong person. Personally, I would like a look at the intel they got that sent them to the wrong place. Of course though none of you are looking at it like that, you are simply looking at it from a point of all soldiers are murderers sent to Iraq by Bush to personally kill anoyone who is brown.

3. Fox news??? You take to much liberty trying to pinhole me as most of the people on this forum do. The only news I watch on TV, and I will admit it, is Glenn Beck. Not religiously, but he has on good people and asks non biased questions which I like.

4. The only person we have saying that they should ratchet up the violence is a "marine" who was criticized and he is now speaking out. Does this sound the least bit suspicious to anyone else like maybe he is trying to blame his mistake in someone else in orde to get off...

5. What profit are the soldiers fighting for?

Think outside the box or you doom yourself to live inside it....


PS Hey Marg, what did your husband do the MArines? [edit on 15-7-2007 by esdad71]

[edit on 15-7-2007 by esdad71]

[edit on 15-7-2007 by esdad71]

Originally posted by esdad71


PS Hey Marg, what did your husband do the MArines? [edit on 15-7-2007 by esdad71]

He was a soldier and he got shot at, two times during the first gulf war, one bullet hit the door of the Humvee he was driving and the second hit the front of his hood.

Yes he never saw the bullets coming or who shot them, but he never kill anybody.

Originally posted by esdad71
4. The only person we have saying that they should ratchet up the violence is a "marine" who was criticized and he is now speaking out. Does this sound the least bit suspicious to anyone else like maybe he is trying to blame his mistake in someone else in orde to get off...

I certainly agree with the above logic. The other thing to bear in mind is no matter what happens even if the claims are later disproved the enemy will have gained an ease propaganda victory. The enemy will look to use such claims for propaganda purposes and milk them for all there worth.

Originally posted by xpert11
The enemy will look to use such claims for propaganda purposes and milk them for all there worth.

And the same thing can be said for our government to keep feeding the reasons for war in Iraq and to keep the war going.

He didn't kill anyone because they did not stop and he was a passenger, so that makes sense. If they stopped however, I would think that his training would have kicked in and he would have defended himself. However, many others have been killed in IED attacks and he would not have walked away from that one. Would you feel the same now if that would have happened? I am glad he got home in one piece

Lopezromo, who was not part of the squad on its late-night mission, said he saw nothing wrong with what Thomas did.

``I don't see it as an execution, sir,'' he told the judge. ``I see it as killing the enemy.''

He said Marines consider all Iraqi men part of the insurgency.

Lopezromo and two other Marines were charged in August with assaulting an Iraqi two weeks before the killing that led to charges against Thomas and the others. Charges against all three were later dropped.

Here is another nice tidbit. You see, this guy was not even on the patrol where the guy died. He is testifying as part of what I am sure is a plea agreement. HE beat someone up and was charged and turned in his captain. I am sure that any MArine I know would kick his ass for what he did, turning on a fellow soldiers. Marines are human too.

Originally posted by esdad71
4. The only person we have saying that they should ratchet up the violence is a "marine" who was criticized and he is now speaking out. Does this sound the least bit suspicious to anyone else like maybe he is trying to blame his mistake in someone else in orde to get off...

The marine (Lopezromo) providing this testimony for the defense and claiming that his unit was acting under orders was not part of the squad on the late night mission where the alleged incident occurred.

Originally posted by UM_Gazz

Originally posted by dgtempe
...one day you are going to have to wake up and smell the coffee and doughnuts and realize that not everything you hear on Fox is true.

Did you see the source link for the original news article in the opening post?

Can you smell the irony?

Oh, yes. It's quite aromatic. Someone patronizes another poster by saying "don't believe everything you see on Fox" (making the assumption that he does) while at the same time chugging down every last drop of this story...from...Fox. LOL

As for "crank up the violence", had the Marines not just been attacked and suffered several casualties? Were they not trying to figure out WHO killed their buddies and WHO was now trying to kill them? Evidently, they asked nicely and weren't getting satisfactory answers. "Crank up the violence" refers to being more aggressive in getting answers and finding the bad guys. That doesn't mean beating and killing innocents is justified, but unseemly things can and do happen in war. Do people really think things like this never happened in an earlier war? Do people really think there were no isolated incidents of Americans killing innocent Germans and Japanese in WWII?

Of course, people can spin this story any way they want to fit their agenda.

I think what we forget is WHOS COUNTRY are we in anyway??? This is the Iraqi's country, not ours.

Lets put ourselves in there shoes. Bush is considered a dictator by the Chinese, Russian, and the Iranian coalition of THE GOOD. The US has been labeled part of the "Axis of Evil". They come to our country and bomb all of our major cities and land a mass of troops to patrol our neighborhoods for 6 YEARS.

WHAT WOULD YOU DO???????? Would you fight for your Country???? Would you attack those who attacked you????

After promises from this Coalition that your power will be restored after the EVIL BUSH was captured, the promises of your Oil Profits going back to rebuilding of YOUR COUNTRY, etc. and to find out that after 6 YEARS OF LIES AND DECEIT its never going to happen, WHAT WOULD YOU DO????

[edit on 15-7-2007 by hoochymama]