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Marine: Unit Was Ordered to 'Crank Up Violence Level' in Iraq

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posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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Marine: Unit Was Ordered to 'Crank Up Violence Level' in Iraq


www.foxnews.com

CAMP PENDLETON, California — A Marine corporal said Marines in his unit began routinely beating Iraqis after officers ordered them to "crank up the violence level," the Los Angeles Times reported.

Cpl. Saul H. Lopezromo testified Saturday at the murder trial of Cpl. Trent D. Thomas.

"We were told to crank up the violence level," the newspaper quoted Lopezromo as saying in testimony for the defense.
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 12:35 PM
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Interesting report?

If these allegations are true, it could speak volumes about this war, and the drive for its continuation.

The ultimate questions, if the allegations are true, how far up the chain of command did these orders come down from?

What would be the purpose of cranking up the violence?

www.foxnews.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 12:51 PM
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Hmmm interesting, we will leave when Iraq can take care of itself is what we keep hearing. Interestingly enough, the Iraqi PM said yesterday they could, but I can see this coming form the Very Top. YUP, Karl Rove himself, how do you keep the soldiers in Iraq, make the violence and chaos more and more as we currently see.

Why would they need to prolong it you ask, that is easy. At 100 dollars a bag for laundry that halliburton makes it is worth millions of dollars the longer they stay. And thats just one of their contracts and just one company. Now consider the money going to Blackwater, Halliburton, Northrup, Lockheed, Etc Etc...

I heard that the war has cost like 780 billion so far, I am sure that is not close to enough money for those groups.



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 01:01 PM
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The fact that this is being presented as defense in a murder trial, lends more credibility to it, if it fails the prosecution will rip it apart. I suspect the defense may have some evidence on hold to back this testimony up. This case could potentially reveal a major conspiracy.

It will be interesting to follow this case, and see how it all ends up.

[edit on 15-7-2007 by UM_Gazz]



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 01:23 PM
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Other testimony from this Marine which is worthy of highlighting here from the above linked news article:



"I don't see it as an execution, sir," he told the judge, according to the newspaper. "I see it as killing the enemy."

He said Marines consider all Iraqi men part of the insurgency.

"Because of the way they live, the clans, they're all in it together," he said.

Source


They see all Iraqi men as part of the insurgency?

The failure to make any distinction between friendly Iraqis and the enemy, leaves me also wondering how many soldiers are thinking this way, and are they conditioned to think this way?

If so then ALL Iraqi men would be legitimate targets in this "war". Right?



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 01:33 PM
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Originally posted by UM_Gazz
They see all Iraqi men as part of the insurgency?

If so then ALL Iraqi men would be legitimate targets in this "war". Right?


Only if we're to take the words of a select few as the mantra of the masses. (?)

I've sent a few "feelers" out to see if there's any merit to the claims made in the article, those regarding supposed top-down initiatives ... or that it's just another fine example of selective journalism, just in time for the 6 o'clock Snewze.



 



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 01:34 PM
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What really gets to me is that we've had a couple incidents now where British and US soldiers were hauling explosives around, dressed up as Arabs and shooting it out with security forces. In each case the offenders were exonerated or literally broken out of jail.
Also, huge stockpiles of explosives being left unguarded and subsequntly stolen... When you add something like what um_gazz has posted here to the equation, it adds up to something really un-neighborly going on in this perpetual war on a noun.
Crank up the violence level... how disgusting. It isn't violent enough for our boys over there, or the civilian population in Iraq needs more suffering?



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 02:01 PM
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This is true and its happening since the beginning of the war!

UK+US marines go in taliban clothes and fire at will at people just to make chaos and violence level rise in Iraq.

The purpose?

US will remain in Iraq. USA agenda is to stay in Iraq for at least 10 years, even 25.

There is no "returnig of the troops home" policy or agenda. Next will be Iran.



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 02:11 PM
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A few things I would like to point out.

First, following up on independentjournal's post in regards to the Iraqi PM's comments yesterday, we need to push this news to the forefront of the reasons we are staying in Iraq. If the current leader of Iraq says we could leave anytime we want, than why is President Bush's handlers and PR people are making statements that we will be there until next April?? This Regime in the US better wake up because the more there lies and deceit get exposed the more people start to realize that they are LIARS, COWARDS, THIEVES, AND SHOULD BE STOPPED.

Second, the Military Industrial Complex has made Billions on this War which lines the pockets of Cheney specifically since he is a "board executive" with Hailburton. Also, the longer this so called war goes on the other high profile person in the Bush Regime, MRS RICE, gets her pockets lined as well as this war and the conflicts now going on the middle east keeps those OIL PROFITS SKY HIGH.

There are TWO WINNERS in this War of Crap, the Military Industrial Complex and the Oil Companies. Our Country better start fighting back against these bafoons.



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 02:14 PM
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Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
... or that it's just another fine example of selective journalism, just in time for the 6 o'clock Snewze.


Interesting that the source for this news is Fox News, when they usually report, and spin in favor of the war, and Bush administration, of course we have not yet heard from Fox News' more controversial personalities on this.

Keep in mind that my questions, were prefaced with this one "are they conditioned to think this way?"

I'm not so sure this is a result of "selective journalism" as much as it is a result of actions some soldiers/marines take in Iraq, keep in mind, none of us can know what it is like for them there. What their commanding officers order, what long term duty, and overall conditioning has done to them in Iraq, along with relentless attacks, and threats.

Personally I hope these allegations are isolated to a very small few, otherwise. Major problems in justifying combat operations in Iraq could be in the works.

[edit on 15-7-2007 by UM_Gazz]



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 02:22 PM
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There are a few cases against the little pink pill that keeps giving. Lariam used for malaria by the troops are laced with a chemical that lowers a person’s kill threshold. It was designed for about six months use. Depending on the individual they can experience flash backs and extreme anger and hallucinations up to five years from the last dose.
Suggest anyone coming back invest in a private sauna.

I pushed a senator into investigating contractor money be directed to insurgent supporters. Decided to take the money I was offered not to release electronic files proving this seeing as many of the people I was working with specialize in shallow graves. It was that or stand once again in unemployment with only my integrity to keep me company. I look on it as at least costing the “company” a little money.

How has the story of the Ukrainians half hearted effort to blow up the largest weapons depot in Iraq never made it out? From the start of the war and even a year later you could see mounds of 40mm mortar ammo with the guts removed for improvised explosives all around the area.
Now of course state of the art is brought in by camel caravans.

Pushing up the violence is no surprise to me. The powers that be did not start this war and invest money back into expanding it just to bring it to an end. There are large profits being made and will continue to be made until someone gets enough solid evidence to shut the operation down. Or the US over extends and breaks down.

PS the Iron Mountain Think Tank in 1962 suggested several "Bush Wars" to keep the economy afloat just before "environmental restitution".
Odd choice of words I thought.



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Comforter
There are a few cases against the little pink pill that keeps giving. Lariam used for malaria by the troops are laced with a chemical that lowers a person’s kill threshold. It was designed for about six months use. Depending on the individual they can experience flash backs and extreme anger and hallucinations up to five years from the last dose.
Suggest anyone coming back invest in a private sauna.


Larium is one thing, but What's this chemical that lowers a person’s kill threshold?


I pushed a senator into investigating contractor money be directed to insurgent supporters. Decided to take the money I was offered not to release electronic files proving this seeing as many of the people I was working with specialize in shallow graves. It was that or stand once again in unemployment with only my integrity to keep me company. I look on it as at least costing the “company” a little money.


Any chance you could elaborate on Your claims of "contractor funds" being diverted to support of Insurgnet activities? ... it'd be most appreciated.



How has the story of the Ukrainians half hearted effort to blow up the largest weapons depot in Iraq never made it out? From the start of the war and even a year later you could see mounds of 40mm mortar ammo with the guts removed for improvised explosives all around the area.
Now of course state of the art is brought in by camel caravans.


Not that I'm lazy, but I'm having a bit of difficulty finding any reference(s) to your claims of Ukranian attempts at blowing up munitions depots. (?)

Care to clarify?


Pushing up the violence is no surprise to me. The powers that be did not start this war and invest money back into expanding it just to bring it to an end. There are large profits being made and will continue to be made until someone gets enough solid evidence to shut the operation down. Or the US over extends and breaks down.


I can't really argue with you on most of the above, but it would seem that the "solid evidence" is held in the same realm as that of the KFC recipe. (?)


PS the Iron Mountain Think Tank in 1962 suggested several "Bush Wars" to keep the economy afloat just before "environmental restitution".
Odd choice of words I thought.


Again ... I'd be interested to see/read more supportive documentation for such claims.


Thanks for the post, Comforter.

 


[edit: bbcode for link]

[edit on 15-7-2007 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 03:33 PM
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Originally posted by 12m8keall2c
Larium is one thing, but What's this chemical that lowers a person’s kill threshold?


Something that could actually lend some credibility to Comforter's claim from the FDA article you linked to:



..but in rare instances it has been associated with serious psychiatric adverse events.


And more significantly:



Specifically, the Lariam Medication Guide instructs patients who experience a sudden onset of certain psychiatric adverse events – anxiety, depression, restlessness or confusion – to contact a doctor or other healthcare provider because it may be necessary to stop taking Lariam and use another malaria prevention medicine.

Sometimes these psychiatric adverse events may persist even after stopping the medication. Some rare reports have claimed that Lariam users think about killing themselves. There have been rarer reports of suicides, although FDA does not know if Lariam use was related to these suicides.


This from a drug designed to help prevent malaria?

Wow!

[edit on 15-7-2007 by UM_Gazz]



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 03:49 PM
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Crank up the violence level? This is an interesting statement that to me I see in this fashion.

Enough men have died based on 'perception' of who the enemy is. Now since they are in a hot zone they are told to open fire and ask questions later maybe since it has gotten so much worse before it got better this is the only way to survive.

These are also Marines. That is there job to clean up and ask no questions. Also, there are operations that are put forth that require ethnic area clothing for insertion and protection based on the operation that is needed.

They were told to ratchet up the violence for protection of themselves not to provoke more incident. At least, that is my 'perception'.



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 04:17 PM
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What an immoral and dirty war, the rumors going around are always as real as the truth of the realities of this dirty war.

People want to think that everything done so far in Iraq is with the sentiments of all Iraqi people.

But I am outrage of what the greed of profiteers of war that belong to my nation are capable of doing for their monetary benefit.

If this can be done to another nation and its people, just imagine what they will be capable of doing to us American citizens for greed and power.

And is still people that doubt that 9/11 was not an inside job.

When it comes to lives we are all expendable and easily replaceable.



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by esdad71
They were told to ratchet up the violence for protection of themselves not to provoke more incident. At least, that is my 'perception'.


That perception is puzzling to me, how exactly can Marines ratchet up the violence, without provoking more incident?

Care to elaborate further?

To me it equates to slapping someone in the face, and expecting them to take it without incident, or retaliation.



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 05:27 PM
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They are not provoking incidents is what I was trying to express. They are simply reacting to the upswing in violence and the insertion of foriegn combat elements to the Iraq front. Al-qeada and Iran as well as numeorus other terror organizations have taken up the casue in IRaq to fight a proxy war.

If the marines need to ramp it up in order to make sure there is order and that they are safe I see nothing wrong. Remember however, there are alwasy 3 sides to a story...mine, yours and the truth...



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 05:34 PM
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He also stated this




Lopezromo said a procedure called "dead-checking" was routine. If Marines entered a house where a man was wounded, instead of checking to see whether he needed medical aid, they shot him to make sure he was dead, he testified.

"If somebody is worth shooting once, they're worth shooting twice," he said.

The jury comprises three officers and six enlisted personnel, all of whom have served in Iraq. The trial was set to resume Monday.




posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 05:37 PM
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esdad71, did you read the news article?

Some of these marines are implicated in murder, the one providing this testimony claims that under orders to crank up the violence the Marines in his unit began routinely beating Iraqis, and they made no real distinction, ALL Iraqi men were considered the enemy.

Would you say that these actions are justified "in order to make sure there is order and that they are safe"??

Do you still see "nothing wrong" here?



posted on Jul, 15 2007 @ 05:41 PM
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THey were charged with killing the wrong man. Yes, I read it. The fact is though them killing the wrong man has nothing to do with the title of the thread. I am simply showing that they were also told to make sure everyone was dead, which they should.

Should they be held accountable for killing the wrong man, yes, but they should be given 2 tours instead of jail time. They are soldiers who are trained to kill who made a mistake.



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