Who recorded the cell phone calls from the planes ?

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
Why? She provided a statement about what her own son said....you and the Loose Change crew picked it apart and called her a liar. Sorry pootie, you are the one that has to offer the evidence to back up your accusation.

Fact is, you can't..so believe all you want and call her story what you want.

1. I have nothing to do with LC or their opinions.
2. This lady and the wild government story built around her phone call are BS IMHO.
3. The government CANNOT PROVE the calls were legit.
4. there is evidence to show the call may not be legit.
5. Burden of proof on the officials who have access to the evidence. Maybe if they RELEASED the EVIDENCE we would not have to argue this.

[edit on 19-7-2007 by Pootie]

Originally posted by esdad71
IN smalled companies they will apply apps to DB servers as well as web servers with horrible security.

WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT SMALL COMPANIES... Placing frontend apps and middleware on a DB server is cheap, bush leauge and silly. You must not deal with massive data warehouses, frontend server farms/clusters/blades/virtualization, etc.

Originally posted by esdad71
A person such as myself is a DBA, a DB would be the database. Wow, a misspelling. You got me.

Totally inaccurate... not just a misspelling.

Originally posted by esdad71
I am certified on SQL 2000/2005 and Oracle. I work with Cisco PIX in numerous enviroments as well as Citrix, UNix and numerous software applications that use my companies software. DIfference is I do not maintain I troubleshoot and fix it. THere is a big difference. ANyone can use software but it is something else to fix it.

Ohh... a pissing match. Your certs. are weak and where is your university degree? Good design requires little if any troubleshooting. Again, BIG vs. Little... Planning vs. Slapping crap together. On topic vs. your lame attempt to compare Federal Agencies and large corporations to the SOHO work you appear to do.

Originally posted by esdad71
So, those Fortune 500 compaines allow you to synchronize all of their data and information to a 100 clock you by off a website from GB? I was really hoping you thought it was humerous that it is NIST that supplies the atomic clock.

No, most run standalone time servers such as the link I provided.

Originally posted by esdad71
ENough with firewalls and highly unlikely scenarios? Obviously you do not world in real world applications with multiple compaines in different locations who all have differing policy on security and network software.

LOL... No, I do not work for baby companies that do not properly plan, implement and integrate. I work for the big boys and THAT IS WHO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT in THIS THREAD.

Originally posted by esdad71
We have the same certs too, so this is something that we should be able to talk about and not attack each other on.

No, we don't, the degree and experience comes first though in any case... You are making up crazy scenarios that would not exist in the environments mentioned in this thread.

Originally posted by esdad71
... lets say UNited uses the web, you could have a variance in time.

NO THEY DO NOT. They purchase their OWN TIME SERVERS, as from the link provided.

VERY accurate and VERY common.

[edit on 19-7-2007 by Pootie]

Question for the DBA...

Do you find it important that the UTC timestamps your DB servers put on everything are EXACT?

Originally posted by Pootie


1. I have nothing to do with LC or their opinions.
2. This lady and the wild government story built around her phone call are BS IMHO.
3. The government CANNOT PROVE the calls were legit.
4. there is evidence to show the call may not be legit.
5. Burden of proof on the officials who have access to the evidence. Maybe if they RELEASED the EVIDENCE we would not have to argue this.

[edit on 19-7-2007 by Pootie]

1. your opinion is the same as theirs on the fake call
2. Your entitled to your opinion
3. The government can prove the RECORDED calls were legit. After all they WERE RECORDED.
4. Please provide me with the evidence... and NOT that he used his first and last name.
5. What evidence about the phone calls are they witholding?

Originally posted by CaptainObvious
3. The government can prove the RECORDED calls were legit. After all they WERE RECORDED.

I suggest you look up the definition of "proof". The government provided something... It does not PROVE legitimacy.

PROOF is something "debunkers" have a very hard time understanding.

Originally posted by Pootie
PROOF is something "debunkers" have a very hard time understanding.

I am a Skeptic...not here to debunk anything. If you want to supply us with some evidence as to the calls being fake.. please post it.

can anyone PROVE she's not his mother and a government plant??

No, and thats the problem.

Besides him using his first and last name...there is NOTHING as far as evidence goes that shows the calls were staged or fake.

Originally posted by Pootie
PROOF is something "debunkers" have a very hard time understanding.

Well, this is true seeing as how you are trying to "debunk" Hoglan's statement and calling her a liar without any PROOF.

Pot. Kettle. Black. Glass. House. Stone. Etc.

2. This lady and the wild government story built around her phone call are BS IMHO.

Well, in your defense, you admit it's just your opinion.

[edit on 19-7-2007 by IAttackPeople]

I stated in my post that it is important. What I was attempting to show is HOW it could happen and you know #ing well that what I explained was correct.

This is not about acronyms or degrees, it is about HOW a variance could occur and I explained it perfectly. Do you work for UAL and that is how you know they sync their server because if not you are once again as in all your threads creating something that will fit your scenario.

I deal with companies ranging in size from 50 to 50000+ employees. I know about scalability and corporate 'standards' or good business practice if you would as far as how a network, small or large is put together. Once you start to incorporate it on a larger scale past a few servers in a a/c room, you generally outsource or go inhouse to create seperate teams that are utilized to make sure that asystem that is housing data in 7 states can synchronize properly where in the correct timestmaping is essential and vital to day to day operations. I have worked on server farms, blades, VPN and VMware. I know what these things are but it has nothing to do with timestamping. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to see where this could occur and have different time stamps.

Hoever, if you are comparing multipe sites with different hardware and software you could have a time variance. Please explain to me how that could not be true? It may not be what happened but this is a forum of what if's to reach a conclusion. Seriously man, I am tired arguing iwth you over bs when the facts are there and i think we are both more than qualified to understand it. Remember, you are attacking me and making me become more technical where as a person visiting this forum may not understand. If you work at all in the IT or consulting field you know you have to 'dumb it down' or you lose the audience in a meeting or presentation.


So this goes back to the fact that hte call center conceivably could be syncing to a site or server that is different than one that the gov't or another private institution is using. This statement is correct right?

There is the slightest chance that they could be different, i mean, if you entertain the idea that the WTC was demoed this is ALOT easier to digest.


and for #s and giggles Pootie, who do you work for, it would add alot to your credibility in this forum and post.

[edit on 19-7-2007 by esdad71]

[edit on 19-7-2007 by esdad71]

Originally posted by esdad71
I stated in my post that it is important. What I was attempting to show is HOW it could happen and you know #ing well that what I explained was correct.

The odds of your "could happen" are rapidly approaching zero. Funny how often you "call out" "CTers" for this. Time syncronization is a so basic to a large infrastructure your scenario is a simple joke and nothing more than a lame excuse.

Originally posted by esdad71
This is not about acronyms or degrees,

No, really, when YOU presented yourself as some sort of expert on the topic and posted inaccurate information regarding daily operations of large computer internetworks it became all about experience, DEGREES and acronyms.

Originally posted by esdad71
I deal with companies ranging in size from 50 to 50000+ employees....You do not need to be a rocket scientist to see where this could occur and have different time stamps.

Blah, blah,blah... again, you are being a HUGE hypocrite here. Remember all of your early "only an SE is qualified to talk on this" B.S? You ARE NOT CORRECT nor are you qualified to speak on this if you do not deal with time synchronization daily and on large critical networks. PERIOD.

Originally posted by esdad71
Hoever, if you are comparing multipe sites with different hardware and software you could have a time variance. Please explain to me how that could not be true? It may not be what happened but this is a forum of what if's to reach a conclusion. Seriously man, I am tired arguing iwth you over bs when the facts are there and i think we are both more than qualified to understand it. Remember, you are attacking me and making me become more technical where as a person visiting this forum may not understand. If you work at all in the IT or consulting field you know you have to 'dumb it down' or you lose the audience in a meeting or presentation.

How can I keep 400 sites, world wide sync'd within 1 second? Happens all the time. Easy stuff and vitally important. I do not need to "dumb down" anything as I believe the users here, much like yourself, are adept at using Google and Wikipedia.

FACT: IT IS SIMPLE TO KEEP A LARGE (400 sites, 40,000 nodes) NETWROK SYNC'D with an offset of < 1 sec.

You are not worried about losing audience. As a matter of fact, it generally appears to be your goal to "lose the audience" for a "CTer" by presenting oddly timed, inaccurate and off topic info.

Originally posted by esdad71
So this goes back to the fact that hte call center conceivably could be syncing to a site or server that is different than one that the gov't or another private institution is using. This statement is correct right?

You are aware that these "institutions" that provide time signals, etc. SYNCHRONIZE WITH EACH OTHER CORRECT?

Originally posted by esdad71
There is the slightest chance that they could be different,

AND THERE YOU HAVE IT FOLKS... the buried admission that the odss are virtually nill and there is no evidence to support this argument.

Originally posted by esdad71
and for #s and giggles Pootie, who do you work for, it would add alot to your credibility in this forum and post.

So, you want me to post personal info you would never, ever consider posting?

OK... I am an infrastructure/security architect that has designed, scoped, planned and executed multi-million dollar implementations for *edit*. You have had time.

Now big fella... post your big time WAP installation stories.

Originally posted by esdad71
servers in a a/c room..."

[edit on 19-7-2007 by Pootie]

Originally posted by wenfieldsecret
can anyone PROVE she's not his mother and a government plant??

Can anyone prove she IS his mother or are you just taking the MSM/Gov word for it?

[edit on 19-7-2007 by Pootie]

The personal bickering ends NOW. If you haven't already read this link people.

No further verbal warnings will be given.

I'll ask the question again, is there not a chance that they could sync to seperate places? This is like when I ask the CD believers for 'physical evidence'. This is a simple questions that became a pissing contest. I have nothing to prove here. I don't care if you give WAP to the dark side of the moon in your job, you simply cannot admit that there is a chance that 2 servers could sync to NTP (a protocol) or UTC seperately and have different timestamps?

Here are 2 links

UTC www.time.gov... it is hosted by NIST and the USNO

or

using NTP on a pc/server bring it up and tell me that there is not a difference?

There is.

Now, if a server for whatever reason is not part of a regular domain for security/confidentiality reasons and it cannot sync along with the rest of the domain it could over time be off by seconds, kind of like the time it took the WTC to fall depending on who tells the story.

All I was attempting to state was that there can be a difference and that there is a possibility. Is it something that would generally happen in the real world, no, but neither is 3 buildings collapsing in one day.

Virtually ALL external time sources on the market, used for the "core" time servers (directly connected) on large internetworks synchronize with the official U.S. time used by the U.S government, including NASA, the military, NASDAQ to Kellogg's, Daimler Chrylser, 3M, GlaxoSmithKline, Buckingham Palace, Sharp and Shell... and the White House, guaranteeing the most precise time keeping available.

The Atomic radio controlled devices receive the nation's official and exact time, down to the precise second via radio signal from the U.S. Atomic Clock in Boulder, CO. (WWVB)

GPS sources (directly attached devices) are generally the only other devices in use for core time servers and the GPS sats. get their time from... guess where? The U.S. Atomic Clock in Boulder...

AA, UAL, AT&T, the DoD, etc are not syncing via. the Internet though you can do that and still maintain < 1 second delta from exact time if done correctly. They are all syncing using their own receivers/time servers.

Machines DO NOT need to be part of a "domain" to utilize an NTP server. If they are THAT important and that isolated and being used for anything that is time sensitive they will have an external reciever attached to them.

I assure you , all of the phone companies DB servers are sync'd to exact US atomic time.

[edit on 19-7-2007 by Pootie]

Originally posted by Pootie

Originally posted by wenfieldsecret
can anyone PROVE she's not his mother and a government plant??

Can anyone prove she IS his mother or are you just taking the MSM/Gov word for it?

[edit on 19-7-2007 by Pootie]

it's all circular reasoning....neither side can prove she is or isnt...so there for...neither side can discount what she says...but still must be wary of it...

I have a modest question.. can we HEAR the "Let's Roll" call?? Link, anybody?

Originally posted by BrokenVisage
I have a modest question.. can we HEAR the "Let's Roll" call?? Link, anybody?

and ontop of that...can we get the audio from all recorded phones and black boxes?....i dont want transcripts...i want to hear it for myself....