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Soldier shoots himself to avoid Iraq

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posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 09:17 PM
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Soldier shoots himself to avoid Iraq


www.msnbc.msn.com

NEW YORK - A soldier who recently returned from Iraq has admitted he paid someone $500 to shoot him in the leg so he could avoid returning for another tour.

Jonathan Aponte, 20, claimed he had been robbed and shot but changed his story when police questioned him, authorities said. Aponte, who was facing another eight-month tour, had been scheduled to leave last Monday.

"As far as being shot at every day, I think it's better," Aponte told WCBS-TV...
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 09:17 PM
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How many other soldiers have these thoughts, but never act on them?

In the end they may claim that he simply suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder, and perhaps after treatment they will send him back overseas.

Is this young man a coward, or a victim?



www.msnbc.msn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 09:41 PM
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Idiot, definitely. Coward, probably. Victim? Of his own idiocy or cowardice.

To be fair, the individual might be very intelligent and extremely brave under fire, but his act was criminal and indefensible.

If he has PTSD or a related stress disorder, then there is help available. The military is more open to stress related disorders than ever before.

But, in the end, there is no justification for what he did short of Brief Reactive Psychosis, but from the information available in the interview, this was not the case.

Legally, he is a malingerer, nothing more, nothing less.


[edit on 2007/7/13 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 09:45 PM
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Some people believe in what they are doing and become involved in war because they believe in their hearts that its the right thing to do , others are profesionals , trained and paid to do a job but may lack the conviction of what theyve been sent to do,and may value their life more than their job



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 09:48 PM
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Originally posted by The_Coo
others are profesionals , trained and paid to do a job but may lack the conviction of what theyve been sent to do,and may value their life more than their job


I wouldn't call that person a professional.

A hack, maybe.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 09:56 PM
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Well to me he made the wrong career choice , if you join up you take the orders and do your best to carry them out.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 09:56 PM
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There are other ways to get out, rather then rape the system for Medical leave ( 30% or more of base pay ). I mean simply alot of times you can oped out if you felt so. Many reasons besides a planed shooting can you do.

what im trying to say, why use the window if you have a open door.

[edit on 13-7-2007 by Tranceopticalinclined]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 09:59 PM
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I say he and others like him are victims Grady.

Victims of a war launched on bogus intelligence, a war that is pushed by failed and failing policies, and by all accounts losing not only the support of the American people, but the government, and even within the republican party. These factors combined with a relentless enemy who attacks these young men daily in Iraq, could easily push even a sane person to seek a way out of it, and to question why even bother going there if they are going to pull out soon anyway. Why roam the dusty roads of Iraq as a target for insurgents and terrorists, and even some angry Iraqi people?

Is there one grain of sand left in Iraq worthy of one more drop of American blood?

What this young man did was foolish, perhaps stupid, I'll give you that. But why someone would even think of doing this is far more compelling.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by The_Coo
...if you join up you take the orders and do your best to carry them out.


I agree wholeheartedly.

As for making a wrong career choice, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

You sign up for a term of enlistment and you do what you're told until that term is finished, then if you realize that this is not your calling, then that's the time to leave.

Personally, I don't think this guy deserves a lot of sympathy.

He should take his licks, which will include an Article 15 NJP or a court-martial, a reduction in rank and depending on his attitude some brig time.

With the right attitude, he probably can get off with losing a few stripes and returning to duty when his injuries heal.

At least he didn't desert.

That's really the worst.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 10:06 PM
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I wonder why someone would think of doing this in the first place? Probably because he has seen all over the news what Iraq can be, and he saw how many of his fellow soldiers are already dead because of this mess.

Sad. Maybe if we wouldn't have gone into that mess in the first place, we wouldn't have our soldiers getting themselves purposely shot in the leg so they wouldn't have to go.

Is this going to continue, just like in Vietnam? Soldiers putting guns in their mouths just so they wouldn't have to go to war, I could see this being the beginning of that.


My wishes go for him to have a speedy recovery, and be placed in an area of the military more suitable to his mental state so that he can continue his service to his country in some other form.



[edit on 7/13/07 by niteboy82]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 10:11 PM
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Theres always going to be some who do this sort of thing , but then again theres a lot more who enjoy the excitement and rush of combat after all its what theyve been trained for.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by niteboy82
Is this going to continue, just like in Vietnam? Soldiers putting guns in their mouths just so they wouldn't have to go to war, I could see this being the beginning of that.


Please clarify this statement.

Do you have any examples to cite?

Data?

What specifically does this have to do with Vietnam, as opposed to other wars?



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 10:25 PM
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www.msnbc.msn.com


A soldier who recently returned from Iraq has admitted he paid someone $500 to shoot him in the leg so he could avoid returning for another tour.


The poor guy already suffered through almost a year of hell in Iraq. So he wanted to leave the military, what's the big friggin deal?

He didn't want to cooperate with an unjust Administration that started a war based on lies. They are the real traitors here. Let's have them all tried for war crimes.

Oh wait, that's right there is no accountability in our government. I forgot.



Apone had joked with his wife about getting shot in the leg so he could avoid another tour, according to the complaint. His wife took the remark seriously, and said she knew a man named who could do the job.

His lawyer has said Aponte suffers from post-traumatic stress disorder, and the military will evaluate him and decide whether he is fit for duty, provide counseling if needed and then send him back overseas, or discharge him.


Can you blame the guy? All he wanted was to live. I wouldn't call that cowardice, although there are definitely more intelligent ways to get out of a war.

First off, don't join the military. If there's a draft, claim conscientious objector..Oh wait we can't do that anymore now with the Patriot Act and draft bills that have been passed.

Thank God this war hasn't been very popular at home. I'm not exactly lining up for the front line, although I almost joined the Marines back in 2004. Glad I didn't.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 10:25 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Please clarify this statement.

Do you have any examples to cite?


There were numerous students at the University of New Orleans who were drafted to fight in the Vietnam war. They put guns in their mouths and ended their lives. One of my best friends was a history professor there and knew these students, teaching many of them.


What specifically does this have to do with Vietnam, as opposed to other wars?


Well this is a war, where even avid supporters are now looking to pull out, because it has become nothing more than a mess, with a Iraqi government where there is more corruption that a New Orleans Canal Street Brothel on a Saturday night. And a parallel can be drawn to a war that is largely considered a mess where people are beginning to purposely harm themselves to avoid duty.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 10:33 PM
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He should have paid 1000 bucks for 2 bullets. Wouldn't have been nearly as suspicious with one in the leg and one in the shoulder.

Ultimately I agree with Grady. He enlisted right? Everyone that willfully enlists should understand the risk envolved, and understand that they may have to kill people for oil. I wonder if this guy enlisted thinking the iraqis weren't going to shoot back?

[edit on 13-7-2007 by Cloak and Dagger]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 10:37 PM
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A coward he is not, after all he served already time in Iraq, I can not blame him for doing what he did.

This one will be easily tag to like already somebody said in the thread as post traumatic syndrome.

Today I saw a soldier on CNN telling his story of already having three tours in Iraq As a volunteer and now he said enough is enough.

He is doing some kind of law sue.

I don't consider this soldiers cowards they already has served in the front lines they are just fed up with the way this war is going and how our government has abuse this soldiers.

I imagine that is many cases like this but only the ones that make head lines are the ones we get to heard about.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 10:58 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
A coward he is not, after all he served already time in Iraq, I can not blame him for doing what he did.


When he enlisted was it for 1, 2 or 3 tours in Iraq?

Or was his enlistment for say.... a span of years?

He enlisted. I am sure he understands what a contract is? The corruption of politics envolved in the Iraq invasion is erroneous to this issue. He willfully signed up. Signed up to be an American soldier to fight the American way. That way includes corrupt politics, and everything else American. He obviously made a personal mistake enlisting. He should finish his time and then learn from his mistake, just like everyone else.


I don't consider this soldiers cowards they already has served in the front lines they are just fed up with the way this war is going and how our government has abuse this soldiers.


Okay fair enough. Wouldn't the right thing to do then, if he felt that way, to somehow do something to change that situation? Get involved in politics or maybe start a protest... something or anything to help out the other soldiers who are in the exact same circumstance! Instead he faked an injury to save himself. What about the other soldiers who were also serving on the front? His absence subsequently increases the risk of the other soldiers, however small. I wouldn't say his actions are cowardly per se, but definitely selfish.

If he was drafted I would be in full agreement with everything people in this thread has said that was in support of this 'victim'. The fact of the matter is, he enlisted as an American soldier, which means they are going to tell you how to breathe and where to breathe. He knew that.

[edit on 13-7-2007 by Cloak and Dagger]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 10:59 PM
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Interesting title, especially considering the Soldier paid Someone else to shoot him. (?)

... he would have probably been better off, had he pulled a Klinger ... an attempt at a Section 8.

Sorry, but a pledge of allegiance is for the duration ... not a ball that can be taken home when the game no longer suits. (?)

Granted ... serving in Iraq isn't a cakewalk, but ... then again, he didn't sign up for duty as a pastry chef, either.



$ .02

[edit on 13-7-2007 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 11:01 PM
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We in the US have made a person at 18 a legal adult. I personally have noticed in recent years, approx 10 years now, that 18 year olds ARE NOT as experianced about anything, especially REAL WORLD conflicts/politics as we used to be and common sence isn't as dominant anymore either. These KIDS are signing contracts usually for college money and NOT truly understanding the commitment that comes with signing that line. If it were up to me, we should bump the adult age to 21...IMO! This guy was 20 and even at 20, we really don't know ****!

Right or Wrong your making the choice to SERVE your country. Anytime, Anywhere, Any condition, for various reasons. The thing I would like to know is what MOS (Job) did this guy have? You find MANY young men and women who are nowhere near combat are doing these things because of their girlfriends/boyfriends/husbands/wives are cheating or breaking up with them due to the deployment and they go and do something stupid like this so they can stay home. Or they miss hanging out at the parties drinking and having NO responsibility still living at home till 25, etc...

Bottom line, pretty cowardly move....you want out, refuse deployment and maybe go to jail and serve your time, then your out! Either way he now gets a Dishonorable Discharge, but atleast no bullet wound and the loss of $500!



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 11:11 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Originally posted by niteboy82
Is this going to continue, just like in Vietnam? Soldiers putting guns in their mouths just so they wouldn't have to go to war, I could see this being the beginning of that.


Please clarify this statement.

Do you have any examples to cite?

Data?

What specifically does this have to do with Vietnam, as opposed to other wars?


I'm not exactly sure what niteboy82 was alluding to, but my father, who spent many years in Nam with the USAF (not sure what he did, he doesn't talk about it, but I know he picked up alot of dead bodies) told me drug use was a big pandemic for many of the soldeirs during that time. I think niteboy82s point was that if the war is bad enough the soldiers will start to break down. I feel this war is really bad, not in the death tolls, but in our reason for being there. Maybe we will see more instances of the soldiers in Iraq doing things like heroin/morphine... or shooting themselves.



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