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post-Roswell "Paradigm Shift" thinking proposed

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posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 01:49 PM
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Dr. Yulish is a prolific writer on UFO topics. He quotes a few questionable characters and makes some unusual correlations with religion, but he does offer up a unique perspective.

Just passing on his article in case you all would care to read a different view on this topic...

60 Years after Roswell: We do need a Paradigm Shift in our Thinking
by Stephen Yulish PhD


Does anyone else think it may be time to shift our focus in this way?




posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 02:08 PM
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No.

There apparently is a lot of proof that we continue to shoot these things down, but no proof that they have ever shot us down.

We have to get away from the idea that ETs are evil and dangerous. We are more dangerous to them and ourselves than they are to us.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by c3hamby
There apparently is a lot of proof that we continue to shoot these things down, but no proof that they have ever shot us down.


Actually, there's no real proof that any of that stuff ever really happened. Just a lot of loose and contradictory talk. No definitive physical evidence.



We have to get away from the idea that ETs are evil and dangerous. We are more dangerous to them and ourselves than they are to us.


When dealing with anything that you can assume possesses more power than you, I think it's better to adopt a "dangerous until proven otherwise" stance. In the case of hypothetical aliens, I suggest that we send you out first to shake hands, while I watch what happens from a nice, safe bunker far, far away.




posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 03:14 PM
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Yulish is clearly in the fundamentalist Armageddon camp and as such I have a hard time taking anything he says seriously. However, I do think assuming ET is a benign friendly helpful creature is a mistake. Even if they were totally benign, they could be trouble, particularly if they were here in numbers. I don't think anyone has come here to eat us, but I still favor a "cautiously neutral" approach. I also see nothing wrong with carrying a big stick. When I take my dog for a walk I take a can of mace. I trust myself not to use it out of spite just because another dog is 'protecting' his territory. But I've been attacked a few times because said dog didn't understand his territory stopped at the property line.

[edit on 7/13/2007 by schuyler]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 03:40 PM
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We don't have "proof" of anything, but we do have trends of evidence...

1. Sightings show apparent interest in our military sites.
2. Abductions and medical experiments.
3. Possible cattle mutilations (though I don't think this is ET related)
4. Evasion when engaged by aircraft.
5. Above all, a desire for secrecy.

These don't add up to "warm and fuzzy" aliens, but it also doesn't mean they are here for war (as over 50 years (at least) of visitation would rule out)....

So, why they do what they do seems to be a mystery...

I'm all for a new paradigm, but of this kind...

We humans classify intelligence as sentient vs. non-sentient.
I really don’t think we’re so black and white. I think there are degrees of sentience and self-awareness.
I know most don’t think dogs have feelings, but I know they do.
Likewise, I doubt a cockroach does, but I don’t really “know”…

So, what this rambling is getting at, is this:

Perhaps these aliens have a different classification of sentience, and we’re not quite up to the mustard here…(in their opinion) to converse with. What I mean is, in all of the Universe, truly they would have seen a huge variety of life, and from the simplicity of an amoeba, to the complexity of themselves…. Maybe they see the Universe as their own private Petri dish and have gone past concerns of government, war, etc.
After all, the reasons for government and war vanish when the basic needs of all are met or exceeded, and threats are absent. Perhaps they’ve never even encountered other beings like us, and simply cannot recall how they once might have been, just as we find it difficult to identify with a Neanderthal. They may not even recognize the threat we pose, or they do, and simply cannot fathom how to deal with it and “regress” their thinking….

Anything is possible, so with so many possibilities, it is impossible to develop a general consensus on how we’d perceive aliens to be.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 04:46 PM
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Any alien contact, active or passive, would cause incredible disruption of human society, anyway. A lot of our institutions are going to be under an awful lot of pressure, and would probably be thrown into a very uneasy state of flux. That's almost by definition a negative for humankind, since we rely so heavily on our social systems behaving predictably just to survive. In the past, when this kind of large-scale disruption has happened, it's opened the door to opportunists who quickly put together armies, and then we're off to the races.

This kind of thing happens every now and then with big natural disasters, and we get along okay with each other for a while. But there's not going to be any "recovering" from the aliens. Even if they leave, their affect will still be felt.

I would like to give any aliens the benefit of the doubt, but I just can't imagine a scenario where their contact produces anything other than something really, really bad. So it doesn't make a lot of sense to me for us to trust them. We don't trust each other, so why would we trust these alien bugs?

Our best bet, since we'll probably be put in an inferior position from the start, will be to watch very carefully, bide our time, try to get our hands on as much of their technology as possible so we can level the playing field, and then as soon as possible establish guidelines for interaction negotiating from a position of equality or superiority. Since we don't know what they might do, we gotta do what we know what to do as intelligent human beings.

There's a word for creatures who fail to rapidly adapt to new environments -- extinct.

Fortunately or unfortunately, I don't think this will happen any time within our lifetimes. If humanity is lucky, we'll get a very distant signal first, then 500 years or more to get our act together and ready for direct contact. Otherwise, I just don't see such a thing being in any way being a positive thing for humanity.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 04:51 PM
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Gaz and Schuyler both have valid arguments, and it's interesting how when looking at both viewpoints simultaneously they validate each other.

I completely agree that if beings sufficiently advanced to roam the galaxy 'observing' other races of relatively 'marginal' sentience (to them) that they would be less inclined to take a sympathetic posture regarding our rather primitive, self-destructive ways. Consequently, the "petri dish" scenario is apt and logical. Not only do they probably have no stake or interest in guiding (or impacting) human destiny, but my guess is they have their own version of "the Prime Directive", i..e., interference of any kind is taboo (for the majority).

Thus, we are left to our own devices, and like the proverbial ant hill, remain under the microscope, to play out our own evolution or extinction as the case may be.

I can't help but wonder if those doing the observing have a good belly laugh at our expense or perhaps are taking their version of galactic bets on the outcome...

Thanks guys; you have added more food for thought - and that's hopefully a sentient step in the right direction



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 05:39 PM
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Originally posted by c3hamby
There apparently is a lot of proof that we continue to shoot these things down, but no proof that they have ever shot us down.

Show me the proof that we have shot them down?

There is some evidence that Fred Valentich was taken by a UFO. Not shot down, but still taken.

Wasn't there evidence that Thomas Mantell was also shot down? My memory is reaching, I'll check it out later.

Besides, c3hamby, you're probably relying on what the mainstream media feed you. You wouldn't have a real clue if any of our planes have been shot down by UFOs or not. That would be well classified above your need to know.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by tezzajw
Wasn't there evidence that Thomas Mantell was also shot down? My memory is reaching, I'll check it out later.


Even most UFO researchers are pretty convinced after studying the case for a while that Mantell was chasing a Skyhook balloon too high for his oxygen.

www.virtuallystrange.net...

[edit on 13-7-2007 by SuicideVirus]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 05:53 PM
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I would suggest that any alien civilization that could come here en masse and 'tamper' with the civilization, should be considered aggressive.

An aggressive civilization would be, imo, strongly xenophobic and would tend to see us as slaves or food, especially if our outward appearance differed from theirs substantially. They'd be interested in our rare metals and other resources, maybe even our water.

For ease of comparison, consider a reptilian or an insectoid society. We would look like 'pink slugs' to them and it may be hard for them to communicate or to get past the difference in appearance.

Just having the 'drive' to explore and colonize would be part of the aggression. Less aggressive civilizations might not travel the galaxy, being content with what they have.

If well-traveled, they'd have their routine down pat, perhaps tricking us into relying on them for something and then taking over by threatening to retract the technology.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 07:12 PM
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Yes, Badge1 - that's eloquent thinking ! I've often thought that the will to survive must be innate in EBEs as well - in fact may be a life-driving force universal to living things.

Similarly, as much as I'm convinced (as many of you are) that the galaxy and all galaxies are probably teeming with life in all stages of development, I'm still selfishly clinging to the notion that Earth is somehow very unique and special.

I've had lucid dreams where the details may be fleeting and the imagery elusive, but the gist of it was that "visitors" are coming here for the water above all else, and are amazed at how nonchalant we are about our H2O as a valuable resource. Further, that nearly all carbon-based life forms need water, that Earth is blessed by an enormous quantity of it and most planets have comparatively little of this precious resource.

Who knows? But I'll bet if we discover that aliens are converging on Earth more for our resources than for any real interest in us as 'sentient beings', then our outlook toward them will change permanently. When they start sucking the water away, maybe we'll then be looking to Schuyler for some 'big sticks'...


[edit on 7/13/2007 by Outrageo]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 08:19 PM
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What if these visitors arn't really benign or hostile and have been interacting with us as long as we have been here? They wouldnt be here to invade especially if their home is outside what we currently understand about reality.

I think they are the ones who create paradigm shifts in thinking from polytheism, monotheism, hermeticism, gnosticism, theosophy, and current trends like the New Age and Scientology.

This is some phenomena linked us in some fashion that we do not understand. Its not biological entities from light years away that come here to abduct people, disrupt electronics and kill animals.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 08:27 PM
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Suicidevirus LOL your funny man you say there is no proof of them that is total bs there is proof everywhere bro. Shure ive never seen an alien or ufo myself but ive heard and seen videos and witnesses and tons of stuff like that. Before you go and say something dumb ive also never seen a giraffe in real life but ive heard they exist seen videos and pictures.Just because i cant go to a zoo and see an alien doesnt mean there not real but hay guess what i can go to the zoo and see an invisable one
o wait the dont exist nvm.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 08:39 PM
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Benign and not hostile?

Please give me one example of our own contact with a different race or tribe on Earth which did not involve killing and subjugation.

Native American Indians
Eskimos
Incas
Aztecs

Look at India and Pakistan - the same people/ancestors, indistinguishable peoples and they'd like nothing more than an excuse to nuke the other back into the stone age.

Same thing with China and Hong Kong; Filipinos and Moros, and so on. Sometimes I wonder if peoples closer to each other aren't even more confrontational.

Even Christian Missionaries condoned killing and torture in the New World.

Imagine what an advanced civilization looking for territory or resources might do; return home and say 'we gave them religion'? LOL.

There are a couple races that are fairly peaceful, but who knows what they'd do if they had the opportunity or were forced into the situation.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 08:44 PM
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Originally posted by ParanoidKid
Suicidevirus LOL your funny man you say there is no proof of them that is total bs there is proof everywhere bro. Shure ive never seen an alien or ufo myself but ive heard and seen videos and witnesses and tons of stuff like that.

Wow! Really? That's impressive. You've seen videos and witnesses and tons of stuff! I guess that means we should all really believe! Could you, perhaps, tell us WHAT videos you've seen that provide proof? To WHAT witnesses are you referring? And as for the 'tons of stuff,' what would that be all about?



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 08:55 PM
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Originally posted by Badge01
There are a couple races that are fairly peaceful, but who knows what they'd do if they had the opportunity or were forced into the situation.


For some reason this got me thinking about geopolitics. If an alien race were unopposed, they could do anything to anyone. Maybe they would be driven by some sort of philosophical creed, but if they were unopposed, there would be no checks or balances at all. Just like the Spanish in Central and South America. They were unopposed. They took what they wanted.

Now, this next is pure abject speculation with no proof. It's just a 'thought experiment.' It is strictly theoretical.

What if a group of space-faring (or inter-dimensional. Beats me which) races were NOT unopposed? Earth is a pawn in 'galact-o-politics.' One race cannot come in and take over the planet and its resources because other races won't let it. It's kind of a galactic cold war out there with earth in the middle.

This would put a much different spin on what an otherwise 'defenseless' planet could do in the way of influencing events. Might should be (Did I ever live in the south?) another thread.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 09:12 PM
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Schuyler has the "big picture" about right - "walk softly and carry a big stick". Is a post-Roswell paradigm shift needed? Now? Uh, what was the original paradigm again? I read this Yulish fellow's "pieces" at the link provided... he has nothing beyond what any individual in the public realm could speculate about. He and Sherry Shriner (amongst others) are not the "E-Ticket" of the 21st century or even the last century and seem "hungry" for the "eye$" and "ear$" of the internet.

No paradigm-shift or re-modelling of the conceptual framework are required to realize that the very first step is not likely to occur anytime soon; global governance must publicly acknowledge alien intervention and then perhaps a few propellor-heads can work out the intellectual nuances in contemplating a change in conceptual framework for modelling the phenomenon in a meaningful manner cognizant of both benefit and threat. The rest of us "just work here".

Have a pleasant work day,

Vic

[edit on 13-7-2007 by V Kaminski]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 09:19 PM
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Originally posted by Gazrok

We don't have "proof" of anything, but we do have trends of evidence...

1. Sightings show apparent interest in our military sites.
2. Abductions and medical experiments.
3. Possible cattle mutilations (though I don't think this is ET related)
4. Evasion when engaged by aircraft.
5. Above all, a desire for secrecy.


God, I hate quoting Mods..

1) Old sightings. Nothing new and confirmed.
2) Abductions and medical experiments.
Never happened.
Show us ATS people CONCRETE evidence of this.
3) I agree. Cattle mutilation has been shown to be nature at work.
4) Aircraft chasing craft.
Tough call.
It's happened, but either the chase(s) endings are mundane, or
classified.
5) Imagine that. Secrecy.
Groom was a hand-picked area for testing aircraft.
It's remote and has a superb area for a runway.


These don't add up to "warm and fuzzy" aliens, but it also doesn't mean they are here for war (as over 50 years (at least) of visitation would rule out)....


Ummmm...without ANY evidence, THEY aren't in existance.


So, why they do what they do seems to be a mystery...

Fiction ? Just guessing...


I'm all for a new paradigm, but of this kind...

Paradigm shift ?
Believing in the impossible ?
Been going on for thousands of years.


I really don’t think we’re so black and white. I think there are degrees of sentience and self-awareness.


I agree. Some animals are known to use primitive tools.


I know most don’t think dogs have feelings, but I know they do.


I feel that cats and dogs do have feelings.
Not only do they get great lodging, the "owners" cater to them.


I'm not going to quote the rest.
I agree.

Does an owner of an ant-farm ask if it's ok to throw all the ants
into the backyard ?
Nope.

My point (I guess),
UFO's are real.
Alien's are not.

Look at the evidence, research the evidence.

Regards,
Lex



posted on Jul, 19 2007 @ 11:16 AM
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Badge01 and Schuyler pose an interesting dilemma - not necessarily mutually exclusive.

On the one hand, humankind has a long history of hostility towards one another, including local friends, nearby neighbors, and "feriners" alike.

Much of this violence is seemingly promulgated through coveting of land or resources, differences of political opinion, vengeance, and, to me, the most disgusting of all, in the name of "religion", i.e., "My God" is more "right" than "your God" - so we need to kill you all. That's lovely.

In any case, the question arises: Who are we to say that alien race visitors (future, past, or present) are (or should be) benign towards earthlings? If they've been watching us for any length in time (and we must assume they have - or will), then they already know that if they treat us with hostility then they are merely giving us some of our own medicine.

What's that you say? They have no right to mistreat us? How many of our own have we extinguished and tortured ourselves?

Let's hope the visiting ETs are benevolent and passive - and perhaps can help us evolve away from the malicious primitives we demonstrate ourselves to be. If it's any one thing I can ask of our galactic emissaries - it would be that...



posted on Aug, 20 2007 @ 05:51 AM
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Greetings Outrageo and friends
In seeking life across the forum, I found some here.
Be warned I intend to feed off of the intelligence in here, but like a good symbiote, do give in return.


A well known scientist put it simply yet eloquently..I hope to God they do not look like us..
Besides agressive and passive ETs' there is now the potential for exotic wildlife in space, where inorganic replicating life may exist. We already seem to accept a panspermia concept of seeding of planets.Imagine a cloud of inorganic (like silicon based) enveloping an entire planet and feeding off it. It does not have to have intelligence ..it just assimilates, nothing personal.I know we are a curious lifeform yearning to reach out. and no doubt our crude signals have reached out at least 75 light years away, I have concern about us sending focused signals anywhere. Just as the Atlantic ocean once provided the North American continent protection from attack, that advantage has disappeared. The advantage that vast distances of space once provided are now disappearing as well, particularly considering the recent faster than light anomalies with microwaves experimentsin Germany are proven correct ,and turned into a communication device.
I hope we move quietly in the night, and not drop the shoe while our neighbors to the stars sleep. We have more to lose than actually gain, as we hold the treasure a one in a billion Eden, Earth.

SyS






[edit on 20-8-2007 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 20-8-2007 by Sys_Config]

[edit on 20-8-2007 by Sys_Config]



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