Larry King Live to talk about UFOs Friday

Whilst I've got some respect for Michael Shermer in other fields,when it comes to UFOs the man does a great deal of assuming and is about as far from objective as a person can be.
Obviously others also enjoy presupposing facts about 'alleged' events but I think Shermer in particular displays a kind of deep rooted prejudice/cynicism which is more about him trying to shoehorn his own narrow minded preconceptions onto events rather than an impartial regard for answers.
I think he came off very poorly on the programme appearing obstinate, conceited,arrogant and rude.




[edit on 01/24/07 by karl 12]

Originally posted by Access Denied
By the way even his Dad said the debris in (at least one of?) the photographs is what he recovered so that's what Jr. would have seen... that is of course assuming he ever actually saw it the first place.

What he said was that there was one picture taken of the actual debris before they brought the Weather balloon in and took more pictures.

Here is the vid (if not posted before already) uploaded on Google video:

video.google.de...

lost shaman this is what marcel said

"General Ramey allowed some members of the press in to take a picture of the stuff. They took one picture of me on the floor holding up some of the less-interesting metallic debris. The press was allowed to photograph this, but were not allowed far enough into the room to touch it. The stuff in that photo was pieces of the actual stuff we found. It was not a staged photo. Later, they cleared out our wreckage and substituted some of their own. They then allowed more photos. Those photos were taken while the actual wreckage was already on its way to Wright Field. I was not in these. I believe these were taken with the general and one of his aids."

[edit on 15-7-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
lost shaman this is what marcel said

So what part of the "Balloon debris" was staged is so hard to understand?

The photo of Jesse Marcel is taken with a radar target and all the photos show the same debris.


[edit on 15-7-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
The photo of Jesse Marcel is taken with a radar target and all the photos show the same debris.

Right all six of the public photos show the exact same "staged Weather Balloon". Therefore we are not looking at the one photo that shows the actual debris.



[edit on 15-7-2007 by lost_shaman]

oh so the press decided to keep it to themselves? why would they do that?

why would the army let the press take photos of the real debris if they wanted to cover it up?

He also suggests he wasnt in any photos with the switched debris.

Later, they cleared out our wreckage and substituted some of their own. They then allowed more photos. Those photos were taken while the actual wreckage was already on its way to Wright Field. I was not in these. I believe these were taken with the general and one of his aids."

[edit on 15-7-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
oh so the press decided to keep it to themselves? why would they do that?

J. Bond Johnson took the six photos that are public. He say's the only thing he saw was the "staged Balloon debris". So he clearly did not take the one photo of the actual debris.

Originally posted by yeti101
why would the army let the press take photos of the real debris if they wanted to cover it up?

They wouldn't, Johnson is adamant that the only debris he saw or photographed was the (staged) Balloon debris.

Originally posted by yeti101
He also suggests he wasnt in any photos with the switched debris.

He also say's Ramey and Dubose posed with the staged Weather Balloon and we have those pictures and can cleary show all the pictures show the exact same staged Weather balloon.

so marcel lied about being photographed with the real debris? or lied about not being in the staged debris photos?

[edit on 15-7-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
so marcel lied about being photographed with the real debris? or lied about not being in the staged debris photos?

No not exactly.

When Marcel was interviewed by Johnny Mann in 1980 and shown picture of himself holding the RAWIN Target in Ramey's office he said that it was
not the debris he found in New Mexico.



[edit on 15-7-2007 by lost_shaman]

so he did get his picture taken with phony debris he just didnt realise it?

sorry but in his 1978 & 1979 interviews he said it was the debris he recovered. Looks like by 1980 someone pointed out his story didnt add up and changed it.

Originally posted by lost_shaman
When Marcel was interviewed by Johnny Mann in 1980 and shown picture of himself holding the RAWIN Target in Ramey's office he said that it was
not the debris he found in New Mexico.

Which means your star witness impeached himself by changing his story several times.

Next witness.

Oh wait, Dubose said the debris wasn't switched either several times.

Next witness.

Oh wait, Haut changed his story several times too.

Next witness.

Shall I continue?

Originally posted by yeti101
so he did get his picture taken with phony debris he just didnt realise it?

sorry but in his 1978 & 1979 interviews he said it was the debris he recovered. Looks like by 1980 someone pointed out his story didnt add up and changed it.

NO. The only persons changing Marcel's story is Bill Moore and Jamie Shandera!!!

All of makes sense, at least to me. People always forget that the Mogul array was top secret, and that it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the Air Force would have replaced it with a smaller, more ordinary radar target before allowing any photographs. They definitely would not have allowed the press to photograph the microphones or radio transmitters.

the quote is from the film ufos are real- thats his story about the photos in his own words. Which he himself changed when asked by Johnny Mann

Originally posted by yeti101
the quote is from the film ufos are real- thats his story about the photos in his own words. Which he himself changed when asked by Johnny Mann

No one had shown Marcel the picture of himself with the Balloon, until Johnny Mann showed him the picture. That is when Marcel said, "That is not the Stuff I found at the Ranch."

right so he forgot he had his picture taken with the switched debris- or thought is was real?

im confused- and you also think he never seen those pictures before even though they were republished all over the press between 1978 +1980 ....

[edit on 15-7-2007 by yeti101]

Originally posted by yeti101
right so he forgot he had his picture taken with the switched debris

Maybe so, but clearly he was in a picture of the staged Balloon debris, when shown this picture he pointed out it was not the actual debris.

and so you think he never saw those pictures even though they were republished all over the press between 1978+ 1980 when he was telling his story?

i put it to you the debris in the photos was the debris from the ranch- balloon material including a radar target.


[edit on 15-7-2007 by yeti101]