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Communism vs. Capitalism-In an Idealistic World

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posted on Jan, 11 2004 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by Scarface
Capitalism works much more easily because the world contains the only downfall of communism theory - greedy people. Capitalism needs really a good few greedy people at the top to get the ball rolling.



you have a problrm with people being rich? you have a problem with people gabling their life saving starting out to become rich? you have a problem with people working hard?




posted on Jan, 11 2004 @ 06:42 PM
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Was Scarface talking about rich people or hardworking people???



NO!!!



posted on Jan, 11 2004 @ 10:25 PM
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Bandit,

How to make this clear,

Socialism is a system whereby the state provides resources to 'deserving people' so that they may achieve their life aims. The individual themself does not decide whether they are deserving.

Capitalism is a system whereby the individual accumulates resources to that the individual may achieve their life aims. The individual has more control over the achievement of their life's ambitions than in a socialist system. I do admit and realize that the market system and issues of disparity put some limits on individuals ability to achieve their ambitions in many respects but when comparing both socialism and capitalism I believe capitalism provides a wider diversity of life experience and situation and thus better fits the varied needs of individuals.

Socialism sets a standard in which the vast majority must fit in whether desireous or not.



posted on Jan, 12 2004 @ 02:37 AM
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There is a difference between communism and socialism.

communism: a system in which goods are owned in common and are available to all as needed

Communism, as an ideal, does not have a central government. It is based on the elimination of a controlling elite.
It's basic principles spring from the belief that everyone is of equal value. No one should have to work, just to make someone else rich. The grunts should benefit the same as the executives. Like I said earlier, it's sort of a "what's mine is yours, and what's yours is mine" philosophy.

Unfortunately, it's success is dependent upon people's willingness to put others before themselves. When that ideal is forced on people, they instinctively reject it, like anything else. Since most people can't seem to grasp the "putting others first" concept, or see it's importance, "commune-ism" always fails in it's purpose.

Socialism, in my opinion, takes the worst elements of Capitalism and Communism, and combines them.

socialism: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

It's reliance upon a centralized Federal government to provide for the common good or to act in the best interest of the people, is naive at best. Socialism is the perfect breeding grounds for dictators and totalitarianism.

Kegs: Brilliant post!! Thank you!! I had hoped someone else would see the similarities between the teachings of Jesus and the communist philosophy. I find it interesting that Jesus would have been classified as a communist, but most "Christians" think that all communists are evil.

TheNeo:

Maybe the purpose of this thread is really for the author to prove to themself and a few of their friends that their preconceived notion about the subject matter is in fact correct and that dissenting viewpoints are not welcome?

That statement was unfounded and stupidly judgmental. If you have read anything I have written in the past, you would know that avoiding those with opposing viewpoints is never my style.

I was raised with the understanding that "Commie Pinkos"were the devil incarnate. Since I have studied the matter, with a more unbiased mind, I have changed my opinion. This has been a rather serious revelation for me, since it will be seen by my parents as an insult to everything they believe. Therefore, I wanted to get more discerning input from all sides of the issue,not just my own!!

Trying to have a serious conversation with objective grown-ups about a typically controversial issue, while avoiding petty name-calling and arguing, was the only motive I had in placing this where I did. Obviously dissenting viewpoints are welcome, since you are part of the discussion.



posted on Jan, 12 2004 @ 07:04 AM
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I'm still not clear on why it was so important for this discussion to be in an access-restricted forum.



posted on Jan, 12 2004 @ 07:05 AM
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[Edited on 17-1-2004 by MaskedAvatar]



posted on Jan, 13 2004 @ 04:42 PM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795
Was Scarface talking about rich people or hardworking people???



NO!!!




he called rich people greedy! they earned all that money by busting their asses


well most did

[Edited on 1-13-2004 by KrazyIvan]



posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 06:04 PM
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[Edited on 17-1-2004 by MaskedAvatar]



posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 10:11 PM
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Youre asking what is more criminal?
Is it Communism or is it Capitalism?
What is more criminal?
Capitalism.
From even only the circumstastance that you've described.
My opinion only of course...



posted on Jan, 14 2004 @ 10:23 PM
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Did I say that?

I'll have somrthing more to say when I'm sober. Honestly.



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by kegs
Youre asking what is more criminal?
Is it Communism or is it Capitalism?
What is more criminal?
Capitalism.
From even only the circumstastance that you've described.
My opinion only of course...




ok lets say that people didnt get greedy and worked for their money. would capitalism still be criminal?



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 08:31 PM
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Krazy-Ivan,

That's a very similar question to what jezebel asked in the beginning. In an idealistic situation.



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 08:37 PM
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www.abovetopsecret.com... Let's either end this general discussion, or move it out of RATS.



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 10:02 PM
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Originally posted by KrazyIvan
OK lets say that people didn't get greedy and worked for their money. would capitalism still be criminal?

Being hard-working has nothing to do with being greedy. There are people that work their fingers to the bone as unpaid protectors and ambassadors to the poor, sick, oppressed, and uneducated throughout the world. The majority of people that work the hardest in our society are the people who get paid the least. This is most evident in the fact that we pay our entertainers more than the teachers that are responsible for educating our children.

Greed noun: excessive or reprehensible acquisitiveness (strongly desirous of acquiring and possessing)
So greed is an excessively or reprehensibly strong desire to acquire or possess.

If greed ceased to be a part of mankind, capitalism would cease to exist. Capitalism is based in capitalizing on the needs and wants of others. If we no longer sought to gain at someone else's expense, capitalism could not exist.

Instead we would work to benefit everyone, without a caste system or desire for superiority. Inevitably, we would become a "communistic" society, in the sense that everyone would be equal and work toward the common good.

Capitalism is no more or less criminal than communism. They are both -isms, or ideologies, and can benefit mankind or destroy it.

Capitalism enables us to be individuals and fail or succeed, personally, based on individual drive.

Communism views everyone as equal and a collective. It relies on the generosity and empathy of everyone, toward their fellow man, in order to succeed.

Capitalism fuels greed and the unconcerned, indifferent attitude that predominates most of society. It rewards the "every man for himself" mentality, and fails to acknowledge, and sometimes even punishes, the "all for one and one for all" mentality.

Communism cannot succeed unless everyone wants it to. If the desire is not unanimous, you get what happened in Russia, where anyone who doesn't want to toe the line is either forced through coercion or otherwise "dealt with". When that happens, a hierarchy is established and communism ceases to exist, as it was intended.



posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 10:04 PM
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posted on Jan, 16 2004 @ 11:15 PM
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I agree. This doesn't need to be in RATS.



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