" Healthy"skeptics what feelings does the word conspiracy invoke in you

and why?

for some reason it seems to me the word conspiracy exerts a immediate negative response from people who stumble across this word,

does it mysteriously trigger an automatic imprint of "kookiness or craziness" and if so could u tell me why u think this?

i am of the opinion that most people never address this critically and that society has engineered through repeated suggestion thru media headlines and thru repeated association with adjectives such as looney, quack and other words to reduce critical thought on the matter. people have busy lives, they have bills to pay, and when they are done they want to have fun, not sit around and think about things that go against the grain

i also think people have pride and that pride sometimes stops them from admitting they have been duped, or even contemplating they have been manipulated.

but maybe i am wrong and maybe most skeptics don't have a knee jerk reaction to the word. maybe people don't look over there shoulders based on the fear of being judged before reading an article claiming a conspiracy of sorts, (especially in public)

after all the dictionary defines it as

conspiracy = An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act

Law. An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.

it would seem to me that if saner heads were to prevail in a time when moral's seem to be thrown out the window and people hold politicians in the same light of trustworthiness as pinocchio, may it be time to reevaluate your own perception of the word?

and then ask yourself if someone is committing alot of crimes may they want to influence social opinion in a way that discourages notice of things by making it socially "kookish" to simply ponder these things?

and if was indeed those in power who are doing shady dealings would they have the ability to get the media to portray things as such?


for the record i don't think i am "smarter" than anyone, but i do always feel compelled to think for myself, and listen to people's advice, because i am always open to learning, and humble enough to admit i am not always right

[edit on 13-7-2007 by cpdaman]

I agree. Conspiracy is no longer a vocab word, but a political label or propaganda tool.

Various political entities as well as the media use the word to draw negative attention to their subject. Anyone who watches fox news or cnn knows quite well that the media has no reservations about attaching such a label to anyone of their choosing.

This is similar to terms like "the war on terror", or "new age", etc..

Originally posted by Vipassana
I agree. Conspiracy is no longer a vocab word, but a political label or propaganda tool.

Very well said and I could not agree more. I have also noticed that the word "conspiracy" does bring a negative response from others. I would attribute it mainly to the way it has been portrayed through out the years in the media. As soon as people hear the word, you are quickly labeled as a crazy. It is sad really that people are so quick to judge without even taking the time to hear what you got to say.

well intresting reply's so far

i would like to hear more from those that are more "skeptical" or just haven't stopped to think about it , yet.

i think my understanding this anomaly, one could then better weed out which conspiracy's are junk and which may carry some weight to them, and try to figure out *patterns of deception* , but i am getting ahead of myself

does anyone have a negative knee jerk reaction to the word conspiracy and do you know based on thinking for yourself why this has come about

and what you make of the reasonings of my first post



[edit on 13-7-2007 by cpdaman]

[edit on 13-7-2007 by cpdaman]

Humor.

Some apprehension and discomfort.

I find most conspiracy theories to be rather amusing in their ludicrousness.

On the other hand I am somewhat distressed that there are people, products of the our education system, that actually believe these things. I fear for our future when I consider some of these 'true believers' will be the leaders of tomorrow.

I consider myself a "heathly skeptic" (as in critcal thinker) and the word "conspiracy" by itself evokes no particular feeling in any given direction unless used in context.

The point raised about the co-opting of the meaning of words like "conspiracy" or "disclosure" to particular advocacy purposes is disturbing and seemingly unavoidable leading to many "meanings" for many people depending on their worldview. It does conjure meaning for many. Meaning beyond the classic definition... sometimes even opposite - is a "twisting" and "wringing" of the contextual vernacular and culture in which it is used to the point where "Joe Public" doesn't even notice or care. The degrading and increasingly "flexible" use of language is evident everywhere and no one will do a darn thing. Now that's a conspiracy of Babylonian proportion. LOL.

Cheers,

Vic

'I am the master of my fate;
I am the captain of my soul'

The word conspiracy means no more to me than the dictionary definition. The Gunpowder Plot was incorrectly named; it should have been called the Gunpowder Conspiracy.

The phrases 'conspiracy theory or 'conspiracy theorist' are another matter.

A conspiracy theorist is someone who believes that, hidden behind the scenes, powerful hands are manipulating some critical aspect of his life, or the world he lives in.

In extreme cases he (or she; sadly there are lady conspiracy theorists too) may believe that the entire fabric of reality is being manipulated.

To me -- I'm one of those sceptic chaps -- this indicates that conspiracy theorists don't feel fully in control of their own lives, and also that they feel bad about this.

In my opinion, the cause of such feelings is almost invariably personal. It may arise from some physcial, psychological or economic condition; it may be plain bad luck, but whatever it is, the cause of this feeling of disempowerment, and the accompanying distress, lies within the person, not within society.

Unable or unwilling to admit this, sufferers project their sense of disempowerment on society at large. They start to believe in conspiracy theories.

Someone with a healthy sense of control over his or her own life, someome who has grown out of the childish illusion that the universe should bow to his command, someone who accepts that the world is full of other people, and hence there will always be some things that are outside his power to change -- such a person would not be a believer in conspiracy theories.

This doesn't mean there are no real conspiracies. People conspire against other people all the time. But there's a difference between a real conspiracy and a conspiracy theory, and it isn't too hard for a well-adjusted person to tell them apart.

Well Astyanax I agree with what you say about the emotional condition of many "conspiracy theorists". There is only one problem here though: A conspiracy automatically implies that it shouldnt be known or become fully known. That makes it very difficult to tell apart truth from fiction. And that attracts curious and intelligent minds. So while many CTs arise from a feeling of inadequacy and personal powerlessness, some CTs arise from pure curiosity and a drive to know more.

the phrase conspiracy theory u say is different than the "gun powder conspiracy. although u lump conspiracy theorist in with the word conspiracy theorist (saying they are all together different (somehow)

that is lumping together someone who has the curiousity to beleive that there are corrupt fractions in something i.e (the financial sector) with someone or a phrase that was created to imply that there are people who apparently believe everything is a conspiracy? i would feel privaliged to know in your own words what a conspiracy theorist exactly means and then what a conspiracy theory means and the vast amount of difference.

was the gunpowder conspiracy not a conspiracy theory of someone's before it was concluded to be a conspiracy. if the person who thought that he had a theory of conspiracy in relation to gun powder, also had other thoughts of conspiracy's would he infact be a conspiracy theorist, and thus not worth listening too.

you bring up a belief that certain people willing to beleive almost anything often have a loss or lack of control in there life and that opposite that someone who understands there are things outside of there influence (yet has a satisfactory amount of command in there lives (control is a foolish word) will not believe such conspiracy theories. you explain this like people fall into a couple categories and there behaviors and beliefs are thus dependent on them, omitting various degrees and shades (overlapping of grey)

perhaps it has occured to you that some people do not become shaken out of there indoctrinated beleifs unless there is an event that threatens them enough to wake them from there "comfy" lives and question things or even give them reason to Change. now u treat this threat as a permenant affliction, like it is a indication of a mental "problem" instead of a lesson (albeit a painful one) to be learned from life(unboubtedly there are those who may not adapt to a threat that shook them from there levels of comfort if it was so great ) but i would be willing to say the one's who did adjust (wether it be a result of a threat to finance, relationships, or any belief you held dear and was changed) may wind up with much more widsom than those who never had to as long as this jolt increased there curiosity in the truth (as opposed to sending them into a angry spiral of revenge, or drug addiction) and this search for "the truth" is unbiased , critical and driven from the heart's intention.

you probably don't even know what i just said

Only here for a laugh

Originally posted by cpdaman
perhaps it has occured to you that some people do not become shaken out of there indoctrinated beleifs unless there is an event that threatens them enough to wake them from there "comfy" lives and question things or even give them reason to Change. now u treat this threat as a permenant affliction, like it is a indication of a mental "problem" instead of a lesson (albeit a painful one) to be learned from life(unboubtedly there are those who may not adapt to a threat that shook them from there levels of comfort if it was so great ) but i would be willing to say the one's who did adjust (wether it be a result of a threat to finance, relationships, or any belief you held dear and was changed) may wind up with much more widsom than those who never had to as long as this jolt increased there curiosity in the truth (as opposed to sending them into a angry spiral of revenge, or drug addiction) and this search for "the truth" is unbiased , critical and driven from the heart's intention.

you probably don't even know what i just said

It was touch and go, actually. You're not the most lucid of writers -- or at least, I don't find you so.

But I think I finally worked it out.

So what was it that shook you out of your indoctrinated beliefs and your comfy life?

Was it a conspiracy you discovered for yourself in the real world -- in your town or school or workplace or among members of your family, a conspiracy that was strongly substantiated by evidence that might stand up in a court of law, even if it never actually came to court?

Or was it something you read or saw or heard about from other people, or from the media, or from the Internet?

That, my friend, is what makes the difference between an observer of conspiracies and a conspiracy theorist. Skyfloating, I think this addresses your point too.

And to answer the original question: this sceptic comes to ATS for the same reason many if not most others do: entertainment.

yes, entertainment indeed.

Lets get back to the basics here in order to de-confuse the subject.

I think both the sceptic and the CT would agree that there is such a thing as SECRETS. Something behind the curtain. When we were children we were fascinated by that, wanted to look behind the curtain. That being established, there are many different ways to respond to the curtain...healthy and unhealthy ways.

"I dont care whats behind the curtain" and "there is no curtain"

This is the unhealthy apathy of a mainstream-brainwashed person. The type of person that makes you want to become a conspiracy buff.


"Whatever is behind the curtain must pose a direct personal threat to me. There are curtains everywhere and they are all evil. I use them to justify living in fear all the time"

This is the other unhealthy extreme.

Apart from that there are hundreds of responses in between those two extremes. Here are some:

"I am curious. Whats going on there?"

"Lets check if its a threat or not"

"Great entertainment!"

Words still have meanings regardless of how dumbed down the USA school system has become.

With me:

Conspiracy invokes a thought of a group of people on a mission of change. Change for good or bad is to be determined.

Now, if a guy was to put the word in a sentence, this may provoke other, darker thoughts or ideas.

The neo-nazies have a conspiracy to take political control of....

Or if a person speaks in these term;

Some scientists have hacve been accused of a conspiracy in weather control by means of...

I have a thought of middle aged guys in white coats in a lab. Not really threatening, not like the vision of Neo-nazies gaining political power.

Over course, when mentioning the oil company conspiracy to raise oil prices, do you think of the guy at the gas station or someone in a suit walking out of a skyscraper in some city?

The word, I find, is relative neutral. Put it in context, then ideas formulate.

[edit on 22-7-2007 by hinky]