Al-Qaida back to pre 9/11 Strength in 2007

Originally posted by jtma508
... They've ( meaning: The current administration) all but trashed the economy, they've killed thousands upon thousands of people, they've usurped our liberties and for what? Nothing. Not a damned thing.

No, not for 'Nothing'...

but not exclusively for Iraq oil either...


The WOT/ Iraqi 'liberation' projects) has the final goal of giving the President
--> 'unlimited' War Powers

Originally posted by dgtempe
Which brings to mind "Let sleeping dogs lie" because we have gone in and created a breeding ground for more little Al Qaedas- thanks to the good decisions of the "Decision Maker"

Occurs more terrorist are created, if all terrorist are taken out of Iraq then how the excuse of fighting terror will stick.

I can see already how the mastermind of this war got together one day in a secret meeting and decided to find an exuse to take the middle east resources and expand their greed across the glob creating this global war against terrorism, then plotting to gain the trust of the population and the sympathies of the rest of nations and bringing allies, with a very well designed plan of an attack in our own soil and boogy man than can not be found and can not be kill.

But actually is limited to the middle east nations of interest.

Is groups of very powerful people in this world and within our nation that see the common citizen as expendable and replaceable.

As long as is not any of them losing their lives in a domestic attack or while invading the nations of interest.



[edit on 12-7-2007 by marg6043]

I used to believe in nwo fully and even debated that they existed on this very site,yet ask yourself this...

What do they stand to gain that they don't already have from taking over the world?

They poisen us through chem trails and vaccines.
They control us through media and law.
They plan and act out wars for profit.
They have all the money a person could ever want.
They own most huge successful busines.

The only possible reason i see is to ensure you don't lose all these privlages.Other than that i can't come up with much..Any suggestions would be cool.

So lets sum this up here.

ON 911 Al-qaida lost 20 of its members.
The United States then launched a 'global war' to eradicate Al-qaida.
So far we have spent over $442,000,000,000 costofwar.com... and lost more then 3000 soldiers in pursuit of Al-qaida
Now, more than six years into this never ending 'global war', they tell us that Al-qaida has not only replaced the 20 extremist it lost on 911, but they have surpassed that and now are 'back to pre 911 strength'.




IF all of the above is true, then simple logic tells me that we are engaged in a no win situation.

No, it just says we are nothing fighting the war right.

We cant drop a JDAM from a jet guided by a 4 man Special Ops unit and expect it to secure and area against Al Qaeda and Taliban forces, we actually have to send in large scale combat infantry battalions and root them out and secure the area gradually over time.

The problem here is that folks expect this to be over and done with in time to move on to other news. That wont happen, this fight will take a very very long time and possibly even longer then our lives.

In "my" opinion, there is no such thing as a terrorist. One mans "terrorist" is another mans "freedom fighter". The US blankets everyone who opposes them as "Al-cia-duh". I highly doubt that half of the "insurgents" in Iraq are AQ. Think of it in terms of the movie RED DAWN. Lets say the Russians invaded the US. A group of regular people get together to fight the Russians out of their town. To them, they are freedom fighters, to the Russians they are "terrorists".

The blanket labeling of Al-cia-duh by the US is nothing more then a means to beat the war drums and stir up more fear. I was sadly watching CNN last night (just because I was flipping through) and heard a reporter say the most irritating statement I have ever heard while talking about this very subject. He said something along the lines of "we are all scared to death of another attack.". We are? I'm not. The only thing I'm afraid of is the government perpetrating another attack just to silence the MILLIONS of people in this country who are fed up with the current administration and this war. The people who are tired of hearing the word "Terrorist" burned into our ears on a daily basis.

Thats my view of it anyway. Remember... so called Al-Quadia was created by the good old USA. We funded these so called terrorists. We armed and trained em. They are CIA assets. And they are doing exactly what the US wants them to do.

Derek, where on Long Island do you live? I have noticed there are a few of us here. Nice to see a fellow LIer on the vast internet!

As for your statements, you are 100% correct on the terrorist thing. Heres an example; many people right were we live classify groups that are opposed to illegal immigration as terrorists yet I call them freedom fighters (except they dont go around blowing people up in the classical sense). Its all about perception, it just so happens that we see them as wrong (well most Americans anyhow).

Originally posted by ChrisF231
No, it just says we are not fighting the war right.

....we actually have to send in large scale combat infantry battalions and root them out and secure the area gradually over time.

He says to an infantry soldier.

Well this 11Bravo is going to tell you that your plan sucks.
It didnt work in Vietnam, it didnt work in Korea, and it isnt going to work in Iraq.
But if you are so sure its the 'way to win' then why dont you rush right down and sign up for the infantry. They always need people.

I live in Moriches (Suffolk County).

And 11Bravo is 100% correct. Throwing troops and money at a problem is not going to solve anything. It sure hasn't for the last several years in Iraq and it sure didn't work in Vietnam. The US has never been good at fighting guerrilla wars. In a conventional war, sure we will decimate pretty much anyone. But this cave hunting just doesn't work.

I've always wondered why we don't just give Iraq an ultimatum. They have an acting government correct? Why don't we just tell them "begin to get control of your country / people so we can help you, or we will pull out and you can all destroy yourselves."

Our presence there certainly isn't helping to make the US or any other country in this world "safer". If anything it is instigating more and more people to oppose the US/UK (ie: creating more so called "Terrorists")



[edit on 12-7-2007 by DerekJR321]

[edit on 12-7-2007 by DerekJR321]

I haven't read this thread yet, but I will.

I see dg beat me to it! You go, girl!

I was going to give my opinion on what this really means if true, but What Really Happened said it best...

It means that all the spying, the searches of our homes and computers, the constant TV cameras, the fondling of our wives and daughters at the airports, the wiretaps, the reading of our emails, the torture ... HAVE ALL FAILED.

None of it works. All that time and money has been a total waste. For all the suffering and inconvenience inflicted on the American people, Homeland Security failed.
...
There is one and only one way to end terrorism, and that is to stop screwing around with other peoples' countries. When you stop screwing around with other peoples countries, the terrorists will go home. and when you start finding and hanging the spies for foreign government pretending to be terrorists to trick you into war on that foreign government's enemies, we will have peace and freedom.

It also means that we not only failed to bring al-Qaida down, we actually helped to give them motivation to come back stronger. If there is another attack (as the powers would have us believe is imminent [although there's no credible threat]) it's going to be totally thanks to the ineptitude and motivational presence that the US has had in the Middle East.

Or is this just more boogeyman talk?

[edit on 12-7-2007 by Benevolent Heretic]

I fully agree with DGTempe, they are now realizing it's a war that can't be won, so They use there original tactics in an attempt to rally the influence of the sheep.

Originally posted by ChrisF231
No, it just says we are nothing fighting the war right.

Actually we did fight right we invaded Iraq took Saddam and put a government in place to our liking.

We cant drop a JDAM from a jet guided by a 4 man Special Ops unit and expect it to secure and area against Al Qaeda and Taliban forces,

I agree we did that for months in Afghanistan before Iraq liberation left the borders open, (or purposely open) so we could stay in Iraq indefinitely fighting terrorist that were no there to begging with until after invasion and liberation.

we actually have to send in large scale combat infantry battalions and root them out and secure the area gradually over time.

You know what made me quote you was the last part of your post, because I kind of realized that Al-qaida and the Terrorist in the middle east are actually everywhere, in every Iraqi, Iranian, Libyan, Saudi, Egyptian, Afghanistan . . . in every muslin, Islamic follower in any Arab child or man . . .

Is hard to forget who is the people we are fighting sometimes with all the propaganda against the middle east nations or interest.

I am opposed to war. I want that plainly understood at the outset. I have been to war, and it sucks, for everybody involved.

But, if there must be war, if there is no other way to settle differences than by one side killing enough of the other side to cause them to fall, then stop pretending it's not an all out effort, and really make war.

We fight "wars" now days on the "little bit pregnant" scale. We have since WWII. Sometimes they are police actions and sometimes limited actions, and whatever. And that is the reason enemies don't respect us in the first place. Because they know that America is too "civilized" to go in and do the job right.

The first stupid idea that has to be overcome is the idea that there is a civilized way to wage war. That notion went out with General Lee. War is the intended complete and utter destruction of all opposing forces, executed to the full ability that you can bring to bear. Anything less is murdering your own troops to further some type of diplomacy.

Now in a real war there will be civilian deaths. You should not target civilians, if for no other reason than it being a waste of resources to target non-combatants. But you cannot, and should not, try to pacify the population until such time as there is total submission. War is a barbaric undertaking, and if you are to be the winner in a war, you must wage it with the full intention of winning, and not with an eye towards your public image.

Anything less is a betrayal of those who serve in uniform. Anytime you "pull your punches" there will be people in your own forces who will die because of that. Whenever you try to play at a "sorta/kinda" war, and you lead your people into a situation where needless death is allowed, then you are as guilty of treason as if you actively aided the enemy.

I despise the idea of war. I hope that mankind will one day get past the need for war. But that is idealism, and it is not yet a viable way to behave in the world. And should the day come when war is needed, be it here or elsewhere, and it is my duty to participate in it, then there will be no quarter given until complete and total surrender. Anything less is dishonorable.

Edit to add: Because we played at war in Iraq, we have this situation now where they are stronger than ever. Right or wrong to go there to begin with, this was no way to fight a war.

[edit on 12-7-2007 by NGC2736]

Originally posted by 11Bravo

IF all of the above is true, then simple logic tells me that we are engaged in a no win situation.

Let me ask this, what is the point of having police to fight against crime when crime is still rampant and has been since written history? How do you defeat crime? Same thing against terrorism.

Wake up, terrorists are infiltrated and controlled by CIA. This is why they don't give a crap about protecting border, because they control terrorists and direct them anywhere they want. Cost of war is over 800 billion and this is the main reason why it takes so long -- PROFIT. Same crap as in Vietnam.

It was never a goal to win but to prolong and profit more. Bankers and military-industrial complex win. Bin Laden is a bogeyman they created for public consumption, so you are all full of revenge while they go into another illegal war, steal oil, terrorize people and take away Constitution. And i would expect someone in military would defend it, but my expectations are too high it seems. Shame on them.

Increased terror warnings with "gut feelings" (so you get gut feelings too) came right after the recent London terror joke which also associated terrorists with health care (NHS). You are being programmed to fear terror is high, you need to get gut feelings about it and also keep in the back of your mind, public health care breeds terrorists. Sheep.

[edit on 12-7-2007 by sb2012]

In case it hasn't been mentioned I will mention it:

OK, intelligence says Al Qaida is built back to pre 911 strength. However, had they been left alone imagine how large they would be now. The point is if they have to continually rebuild strength it means they cant organize new major attacks. Obviously they had to devote a lot of energy into rebuilding. To me that means they are continually kept scrambling.

Shoot! Sounds like many here are wishing for another 911 so they can say they were right. There hasn't been a major attack on American soil since 911, this is not a failure to me.

As far as Iraq being a failure, does anyone realize that we still have troops in South Korea to this day from that war. People expect things to happen overnight with no casualties and it just ain't gonna happen. It will take years to stabilize Iraq and if history tells us anything there will always be a US military presence there if we follow thru.

What I don't get is, I thought "we" had no idea something like 911 could happen. We had no idea anything was imminent. Now they say, the intel looks like it did before 911. What does that mean? I'm confused. They didn't know, they knew, they didn't know? Didn't Donovan have a song about a mountain similar to that in the 60s??

This whole scenario reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode about the Monsters on Maple Street (don;t remember the whole title). There were aliens (in our case, the gov) manipulating the events on a particular street (the US, in this case) to make everyone paranoid and distrustful towards everyone until they eventually destroy themselves.

No matter what, with all the crap the gov did post-911 to get better prepared obviously wasn't worth much. They don't instill confidence when they keep asking for help from the average citizen. Of course we're doing all we can, but isn't that the job of Homeland Security, Anti-Terrorism units, FBI, CIA. I mean, they can't all be looking for missing persons and bank robbers.

Why are we paying all these extra "security fees" on plane tickets and concert seats? Concert seats? Has anyone ever looked at all the charges on a concert ticket? Maybe while they're waiting for the next attack someone should investigate Ticketmaster!

Originally posted by deltaboy
Let me ask this, what is the point of having police to fight against crime when crime is still rampant and has been since written history? How do you defeat crime? Same thing against terrorism.

Apples are not oranges and the mighty USA is not the worlds police.

oh yeah, and war is a racket

War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

Emphasis is added and its mine.

Excerpt from a speech by Smedley Butler, a Major General who won the Medal of Honor twice, and both the Army AND Navy Distinguished Service Medal.

How do you defeat crime?

You don't. You control it. Never in the history of any country anywhere has crime been defeated. Just controlled. And crime in itself is a HUGE profit for the government and local economies. Don't believe me? Go down to your local court house on any given day and see how many people are lined up to pay there fines. The 1st District Court by where I live must pull in several hundred thousand dollars a day in petty fines alone.

Things like murderers and rapist will never be defeated. They exist and they always will. Just like terrorists/freedom fighters. So long as there is something to oppose, someone will oppose it. You can not defeat what you can't control.

In reference to comparing the current war in Iraq to Korea.. there really is no comparison. North Koreans aren't constantly blowing things up in South Korea. The soldiers stationed in South Korea aren't constantly having their tours extended, their leaves canceled and who knows what else. If the goal here is to maintain a constant presence in Iraq then the American people have been lied to.

PS- Iraq was stable before we went in there guns blazing.


[edit on 12-7-2007 by DerekJR321]

[edit on 12-7-2007 by DerekJR321]

This is government propaganda !

They only say it to :

a)scare you
b)get you ready for the next act of US government terrorism