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Is it really cruelty if your indoor cats have ALL their claws removed?

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posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 03:04 PM
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Originally posted by Dr Love
The whole scratching post concept is a joke. I have one and they never use it, they use the side of the couch. And as far as the squirt gun thing goes, that's all well and good when we're home, but it's during the day while nobody's home when the do all the slicing and dicing.

Peace


Hey man, i hear ya. I have 4 cats, so I know where you're coming from. I'm very against declawing, but I'm not going to write some rant to you screaming about this and that.

but please check out this site, as well.
www.catscratching.com...
It's a great source of info and gives you behavior modification ideas on how to get your cat to start using the scratching post. Most of all, be patient with your cats. They most likely won't adapt to the change of scratching the couch to the pole overnight.




posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by Dr Love
The whole scratching post concept is a joke. I have one and they never use it, they use the side of the couch. And as far as the squirt gun thing goes, that's all well and good when we're home, but it's during the day while nobody's home when the do all the slicing and dicing.

Peace


agreed and people just don't seem to get this either.
just cuase you get a cat a scratching post don't mean they are going to use it.
i tried that. our cat thought our couch was better to tear into though. we tried all sorts of stuff from spraying this crap on furniture that is supposed to make them not want to get near it to spraying vinegar too.

and yeah, when you're not around you can't really control what the cat does...besides that, in MOST places that you rent, they now require that the front claws be removed...why? cause they can and do tear crap up with them...
solution=remove the claws



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 03:36 PM
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how bout this one...WHY are so many of you against this? cause you percieve it as cruel?
could someone answer me when i ask, is it not cruel to even 'keep them' as pets? i have heard in this thread that the animal don't choose to have it's claws removed....well, what in it's domestocated life does it choose? the answer is nothing.

as to the link, i think it might have good intentions but i read it as it's trying to lay a trip on people

--Declawing is literally maiming a cat, a mistake that can lead to physical, emotional and behavioral complications. It is erroneous to think that declawing a cat is a trivial procedure similar to trimming fingernails. A cat's claws are a vital part of its anatomy, essential to balance, mobility and survival.---

^^^the cat is going to have emotional problems cause you removed it's claws???bwuahahahah
as far as essential to balance, i suppose but none of my cats every had any problems performing any acrobatic feats after they were declawed...also, claws are NOT essential to the survival of a domesticated cat. absolutely not.

---Deprived of its front claws a cat may become insecure and distressed. I can assure you that if Kitty becomes emotionally distressed, you will too---

^^^i can assure that if kitty gets pissed, better kitty has no claws or you're gonna be in some pain.


---Some cats develop an aversion to their litter box because of the pain associated with scratching in the litter after a declawing procedure. If Kitty doesn't go in the box, she will find a more comfortable place to do her business. ----

^^^uh, thats why the vet sends you home with a supply of 'special' litter that is easier on the cat for the week, OR, you use ripped up newspaper. problem solved.

--Lesson 2- You can't keep your cat from scratching.--

^^^can't scratch if they don't have claws


Lug

posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 03:40 PM
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The only reason to have a cat, that I can see anyway, is to rid my house and yard of mice, moles and other critters. It's unfortunate that sometimes it's a cute little finch or robin, but that's nature for ya. If I couldn't stand to have my cute fuzzy little pussycat clawing the furniture to shreds, then I shouldn't have one.

They're not Prada Bags or designer jeans... they're animals with every right to keep their parts intact.

Next thing you know, we'll have $5000 dog breeds getting their teeth pulled when they're puppies.

Leave them their essentials or leave them alone.



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 03:52 PM
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Lug, I forwarded your post to Bob Barker. He's on his way to your house right now to kick your arse.

As for me I gotta go, but I'll reply to that post tomorrow. I'm sure boondock will get there before me though.


Peace



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 03:55 PM
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Some cats WILL have emotional problems if you have their claws removed. Animals have feelings. Haven't you ever seen your cat happy, sad, scared, excited? I'd be pretty depressed if someone cut off half my fingers, too.

I agree claws are not essential to the survival of a domesticated cat - as long as that cat is always kept INDOORS.

getting scratched by cats comes with the territory. If it bothers you that much don't own cats. Simple concept.

Ripped up newspaper as cat litter? Uhm... really, who wants to take the risk of cat pee on the floor? Once a cat goes on the floor it's marked by their scent and other cats will start going there too.

As to the statement of "can't scratch if they don't have claws" -- That's just ignorant, man.



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 03:58 PM
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Originally posted by Lug
They're not Prada Bags or designer jeans... they're animals with every right to keep their parts intact.



hmmm. do they have the right to not be kept as pets? does anyone ask the animal first? did you clear it with your cat before you took it home to kill mice for you?

didn't think so...lay of the trip.
you want your cat to kill mice and the occasional bird. some people want their cat to chill in the house and not tear their stuff up.....do those birds and mice have a right to not get eaten by your cat?

if we are gonna talk choice/cruelty, then lets get down to what is ok and what is not. clearly their feelings don't matter when we humans decide to domesticate them or feed them a certain kind of food or whatever.

the claws are not done for designer reasons(like cropped ears and a docked tail, which i do not aprove of), rather as a preventative of getting your belongings or yourself tore up.
as far as the uterus and the teste's go, that is the responsible thing to do to avoid unwanted puppies/kittens and health complications later.


Lug

posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 04:00 PM
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Should I put a GoogleEarth screen shot of my house up so Bob Barker can come over without having to search? I'm game.


Anyways...

I put people who declaw cats right down there with those who put diapers on lapdogs, dye their poodles pink and put little rubber boots on them for those rainy days walks in Central Park.

Brrrr...



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by horrorbiz
Some cats WILL have emotional problems if you have their claws removed. I'd be pretty depressed if someone cut off half my fingers, too.



--again with the trip. yeah, i'd be bummed if i got my knucles cut off too but, we don't have the same process as a cat. also, it's not being done just for th ehell of it. i'm sure the cat don't like getting declawed but i bet the cat likes food, treats, love, toys, a roof, etc...small prive to pay imo---

getting scratched by cats comes with the territory. If it bothers you that much don't own cats. Simple concept.

-----i like when people like you say 'don't own cats, it is that simple'...i think it's funny. i guess it does come with the territory but luckily, we can make the choice to declaw------

Ripped up newspaper as cat litter? Uhm... really, who wants to take the risk of cat pee on the floor? Once a cat goes on the floor it's marked by their scent and other cats will start going there too.

----hmmm, i risked it.several times over the years. i threw caution to the wind and i used that ripped up paper and gasp, it worked....give it up--


As to the statement of "can't scratch if they don't have claws" -- That's just ignorant, man.


my statement may be ignorant but that does not make it false.
they can not scratch if they do not have claws.

i don't care what you say man...i am not going to buy into your trip. i have owned too many animals to know from experience.
my father was a vet tech and i used to help him on the weekends. i worked as a tech/asst for a bit. i worked in a shelter and a boarding kennel taking care of dogs and cats.
plenty came through declawed or to get declawed and they were all fine.
some people just try to make it out like it is some friggin ghastly, terrible thing....thats fine if you want to believe that and you don't want to declaw your cat.....good for you, here is a medal.



[edit on 12-7-2007 by Boondock78]

[edit on 12-7-2007 by Boondock78]


Lug

posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by Boondock78
Hmmm. do they have the right to not be kept as pets? does anyone ask the animal first? did you clear it with your cat before you took it home to kill mice for you?


assumption #1... what makes you think I have a pet, hmmm? I have an opinion, yes, but the only pets I have are the spiders that I allow to hunt for insects and insect larvea in my house'


didn't think so...lay of the trip.
you want your cat to kill mice and the occasional bird. some people want their cat to chill in the house and not tear their stuff up.....do those birds and mice have a right to not get eaten by your cat?


Since the neighbours cat does that for me, and I allow it to happen, I guess that changes the scenario a bit, doesn't it? Do I allow the sparrow hawk to eat the sonbirds? You bet, because there's not a dang thing I can do about it.


if we are gonna talk choice/cruelty, then lets get down to what is ok and what is not. clearly their feelings don't matter when we humans decide to domesticate them or feed them a certain kind of food or whatever.


Once again, not applicabe in my case. Assumptions, etc.


the claws are not done for designer reasons(like cropped ears and a docked tail, which i do not aprove of), rather as a preventative of getting your belongings or yourself tore up.
as far as the uterus and the teste's go, that is the responsible thing to do to avoid unwanted puppies/kittens and health complications later.


Oh, so the furniture don't get torn up, huh? So, did you ask wee kitty if it was alright first? Spaying, etc... just another reason not to purchase an expensive animal to show off with, much like a Prada bag or Gucci sunglasses.

Where I come from cats are cats and dogs are dogs, not status symbols. They benefit humans by providing skills we don't have.



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 04:16 PM
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saying "cats can't scratch if they don't have claws" is the equivalent of me saying to you, "i don't like what you're posting, let me cut your hands off. Can't type if you don't have hands!"

Some people DO see it as a ghastly, terrible thing.

Buy a cheap couch if you're concerned about it getting tore up. In the end, it's only a couch anyway. It's a material, replaceable object.

and I will take my medal for not declawing my cats - thank you very much

[edit on 12-7-2007 by horrorbiz]



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by Lug

assumption #1... what makes you think I have a pet, hmmm?

---------i misread this. i thought you were telling me about YOUR cat

The only reason to have a cat, that I can see anyway, is to rid my house and yard of mice, moles and other critters. It's unfortunate that sometimes it's a cute little finch or robin, but that's nature for ya. If I couldn't stand to have my cute fuzzy little pussycat clawing the furniture to shreds, then I shouldn't have one-------


Oh, so the furniture don't get torn up, huh?

---thats one reason. absolutely


Where I come from cats are cats and dogs are dogs, not status symbols. They benefit humans by providing skills we don't have.


where i come from, cats and dogs are pets and they benefit humans from being our companion. each is own i guess.

i still have recieved no answer....why is it so horrible in whoevers eyes?
cause you read catscratch.com or something?



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 04:21 PM
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Originally posted by horrorbiz
saying "cats can't scratch if they don't have claws" is the equivalent of me saying to you, "i don't like what you're posting, let me cut your hands off. Can't type if you don't have hands!"



[edit on 12-7-2007 by horrorbiz]


ok. keep telling yourself that...maybe it will become true.
you're jumping from a feline that we keep as pets to cutting the hands off a human.

feline/human=not the same
first knuckle of feline paw/human hand=not the same

i think i will argue that it is cruel to even keep a cat as a pet. they are animals and they have every right to roam free. quit being cruel and let your cat go roam the earth like quai chang cane....how's that


Lug

posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 04:27 PM
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Originally posted by Boondock78
why is it so horrible in whoevers eyes?
cause you read catscratch.com or something?


Because the pet has no say in it. The claws are their natural defence as well as their bread and butter. Declaw a cat and you don't have a cat anymore, you've got furniture accessories.



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by Boondock78

ok. keep telling yourself that...maybe it will become true.
you're jumping from a feline that we keep as pets to cutting the hands off a human.

feline/human=not the same
first knuckle of feline paw/human hand=not the same

i think i will argue that it is cruel to even keep a cat as a pet. they are animals and they have every right to roam free. quit being cruel and let your cat go roam the earth like quai chang cane....how's that


feline/human = life.
paw/hand = appendages we use.

Arguing it is cruel to keep a cat as pet... ok - Sometimes I do feel sad my cats don't go outdoors. But I'd rather not see them get run over by a car or abused by some insane little kids. Arguing against domestication? eh, that's really just digging for something to argue. lol.


Lug

posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 04:39 PM
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On domestication...

ever wonder how it all really started?

I see human hunter gatherers (important point) being followed around by cats and dogs because;

- cats hang around places where gathered food (grains, etc.) is stored, hunting the vermin that eat the food. Humans liked this arrangement and, rather than scaring them off, befriended them as allies in the social structure.

- dogs hunt in packs the same as early humans did. When humans hunted, dogs (wolves) became involved in the hunt because often certain tasty bits were left behind. Eventually, wolves aided in the hunt and because of that, the hunters became friends with them through mutual benefit. If you don't believe that, consider how the Native Americans (for instance) hold the wolves in high esteem.



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by Lug


Because the pet has no say in it. The claws are their natural defence as well as their bread and butter. .


but my point is, does 'the pet' have a say in being someones pet? of course not. the claws are their natual defense i agree. they do not need that though if they are a domesticated house cat. so, in order to preserve the furniture and your own skin, you can get the claws removed and contrary to what you are saying, you will still have a cat.

i've been trying to get into this all along. NO animal has a 'say so' in what happens to it. not one single pet/domesticated animal.



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 05:11 PM
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Originally posted by horrorbiz

feline/human = life.
paw/hand = appendages we use.

Arguing it is cruel to keep a cat as pet... ok - Sometimes I do feel sad my cats don't go outdoors. But I'd rather not see them get run over by a car or abused by some insane little kids. Arguing against domestication? eh, that's really just digging for something to argue. lol.


the feline/human comparison is still not the same. i bet there are all sorts of living creatures you won't hesitate to stomp...i am trying to make a point by arguing against domesticated animals.
i did not being up the cruelty thing but someone did and they mentioned the pets lack of choice. so, i mentioned the pets lack of choice in being a pet in the first place.
i'd rather not see a cat get run over or abused either. what does that have to do with anything?
if a cat is to live in this house, it will have it's claws removed. small price to pay to not roam the streets hungry/cold/whatever.

i just fail to see how a person can think it is cruel to declaw a cat, but do not think it is cruel to never let them go outside....i mean, that is one hell of a choice you are making for that there cat....not letting it outside....
for shame



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 08:08 PM
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lug, that has little to do with the point. these days, in the here in now, sure there are working dogs that actually work. but, most dogs are domestic pets. no choice.
just trying to make a point about choice. the animals have none, ever.
imo, not letting your cat outside is just as bad as removing it's claws.
you can argue the claws for a weeks worth of physical pain but i will argue a lifetime of wanting to go out there where they belong, but not being able to.
am i saying people shouldn't keep cats and not let them go out? no....just saying they don't have a choice and removing claws as to save furniture, property, skin, is far different than cropping ears and docking tails for looks.
i look at spay and neuter as a responsibility for reasons already stated.
i just can't see how it is a bad thing if the keeper of the pet wants it's claws removed for whatever reason.
the keeper of the pet feeds it and takes care of it and allows it to survive. warm in the winter and cool in the summer, food at the ready, no diseases.
claws are a small sacrifice that their brains can not comprehend so we do it for them.

it is not as big a deal as people make it out to be.....all these facts about cats not getting pain meds...well, come out of your pocket and buy the meds then. real easy.
sure, it is money but when you get it done, you can shoose various anesthesia for the procedure and the kind of medicine if any for after pain. people do often choose no pain meds. i do not agree with that and think that is perhaps cruel cause they induced the surgery...imo, they can at least make the cat comfy....
i have had surgery. several. needed to be done.

there are several secenerios where it needs to be done and who are we to judge what other people do?

say you do have a cat. had him 5 years, love the cat...cat is your best friend like my dog is mine. you lose your current living situation(it happens) and you have to rent an apartment. you can only get an apartment in most places if you cats front claws are removed. you gonna give your cat up to a friend or the pound instead of removing claws to be able to keep it?

grandma is lonely and needs a companion but we really don't need the cat being able to carve her up when it hears the garbage truck....i don't really see the issue here.

people keep fish in tanks, birds in cages...hell, dogs and cats in cages.
reptiles and bunnies and friggin flying squirrels.

i just don't see a declaw as 'cruel'...it is not always necessary but imo if you are the keeper of the cat you get to make the choice for whatever reason. also imo, if you do choose to get it done, be cool and get the cat the meds.
when i did mine he walked funny for a day, and licked his paws. other than that, he never even paid it any mind.
i don't care what the cat shrinks say. my cat was happy.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 08:26 AM
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I would never have mine declawed just in case I died. After they eat my body they would eventually escape outside and I want them to be able to defend themselves.



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