Any ATS members on the Square????

Originally posted by Brock Gel
Why is Masonry a fraternity?

I guess its just tradition, woman were inferior when masonry came about so it was designed for men.

[edit on 25-11-2007 by SANTARII]

Does that mean the Ladies' Country Club think that men are inferior?

I have no quarrel with Masons. Some of the most important historic figures for Liberty were masons, like Ben Franklin. He was an intelligent man and had an undying love for Freedom.

Originally posted by Roark
Does that mean the Ladies' Country Club think that men are inferior?

The freemasons don't think woman are inferior, well most probably not, the point is woman used to be so woman would have not been allowed in the freemasons, the tradition is just carried on.

If the Ladies' Country Club has been around for many years I would say they are sepperated because they could not join mens clubs because they were inferior, if not i don't know why.

reply to post by Vixion


Great picture for your avatar

Originally posted by The Axeman

Originally posted by Brock Gel
Why is Masonry a fraternity?

Because it has been that way for 290 years?

There are alot of reasons, none of them misogynistic.

Masonry is desinged for men. I don't know how much plainer I can be.

I'm truely not being facetious or laying accusations at your feet. I have a few genuine questions to ask as I have been contemplating membership.

1. Is it true that you must first become a 32nd deg. mason to get into the shrinners?

2. Is it true that the higher you go the more dues you must pay?

3. What the hell do people mean by "ridding the goat" being that this is all male they aren't talking about some homosexual practices are they?

Again my questions are in all sincerity and respect.

reply to post by lazy1981


1) This used to be the case, but the Shrine recently (a few years ago) dropped that requirement. All that is now required is being a master mason.

2) Yes, and no. While the actual amount of money you pay as you go higher in the degrees does increase in real terms, we are talking usually about paltry sums here. For example, your blue lodge dues may be $50 and your Scottish Rite dues may be $60. You should note that lodge dues vary WIDELY, and some lodges do charge a very large amount ($500+) per year. It just depends on the lodge and the local rite. Also, upon joining a blue lodge and thereafter an auxiliary body you will pay one time initiation fees which may be a lot of money to you ($200+). However, these fees also vary widely.

3) Ridding the goat is just a historical joke. I confess I don't know the origins, but this is my best guess: at some point I think someone accused us of using goats in the ritual, and we picked it up as a joke. I assure you, there are no goats involved in the ritual - ever. There is no sex involved, which I think probably upsets many conspiracy theorists - they were hoping for some hot masonic orgies! Unfortunately for them, they will find none

[edit on 26-11-2007 by LightinDarkness]

Originally posted by lazy1981



1. Is it true that you must first become a 32nd deg. mason to get into the shrinners?

Traditionally, one was required to be either a 32° member of the Scottish Rite or a Knight Templar in the York Rite in order to become a Shriner. This requirement was (sadly) dropped by the Imperial Council of the Shrine in 2000.

2. Is it true that the higher you go the more dues you must pay?

You have to pay dues to each organization you belong to. So if you're a Master Mason, you pay Blue Lodge dues. If you also belong to Scottish Rite, you pay Blue Lodge AND Scottish Rite dues. If you belong to the York Rite and Shriners too, then you pay dues at all 4 places, and so on.

3. What the hell do people mean by "ridding the goat" being that this is all male they aren't talking about some homosexual practices are they?

Riding the goat is a joke used in fraternities to scare candidates for initiation. According to the Elks website, the phrase comes from the 18th century practice in the Elks Lodge where the candidate had to ride some sort of mechanical goat.

At first when I heard about Masonry I didn't think so much about it but when I looked more and more into it I found it kinda interesting. It's a shame the Freemasons here in Sweden have an age-limit of 24 + that they demand you to be more or less, a Christian. If they accepted people that were younger and non-religious I would try to join.. Or at least try to get some knowledge in how Masons better themselves (what kind of "tools"....?) and then decide if I should join or not.

It's a shame that I'm 17 and an Agnostic ;


P.S. Not the best English speaker, please keep that in mind.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Thanks to you and Masonic Light for the info. I hope my last question didn't give those that oppose masonry any ammo you know that even though you guys explained it as well as you could they will most assuredly say that you are covering something up.

In any event, your help is most appreciated.

How do you feel about the people who believe Shriner's dont expose themselves as a part of Freemasonry "enough". Also, the talk about Shriners leaving or departing from freemasonry.

(I have a link here somewhere, I'll add it once I come across it)

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by lazy1981



This requirement was (sadly) dropped by the Imperial Council of the Shrine in 2000.

[

Why do you find it sad that you are no longer required to attain the 32nd deg. in order to gain admittance to the Shriners?

Originally posted by lazy1981

Why do you find it sad that you are no longer required to attain the 32nd deg. in order to gain admittance to the Shriners?

I'm sort of a Masonic traditionalist, and it was the intention of the founders of the Shrine that Shriners hold advanced Masonic degrees. This would insure that Shriners would have experience and education in Masonry, and would show that they were dedicated to the fraternity as a whole.

I stopped participating in Shrine functions when they withdrew the requirement that candidates either be 32° Scottish Rite Masons or York Rite Knights Templar. Many others did as well, as a form of protest. It seemed to me (and still does) that the Imperial Council was just trying add numbers and have more members to pay dues, and that the legislation helped weaken Masonic unity.

Riding the goat is a joke used in fraternities to scare candidates for initiation. According to the Elks website, the phrase comes from the 18th century practice in the Elks Lodge where the candidate had to ride some sort of mechanical goat.

I believe you are mistaken in the 18th century date. From the Elks site they did not come into existance until the mid 19th century. CA. 1860's.

My Dad is a P.E.R. and I have many fond memories of activities at the lodge.
As I do of activities at many Masonic lodges when I was a DeMolay.

[edit on 11/28/2007 by runningbeer]

Originally posted by runningbeer


I believe you are mistaken in the 18th century date. From the Elks site they did not come into existance until the mid 19th century. CA. 1860's.

You're right, it was a typo. It should have read 19th century.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Your position seems warented and sensible to me. I just wanted to know because my Uncle was a Shriner and I figured that he must have been at least a 32nd deg. Mason because of the rule. I wasn't sure because we weren't all that close and he passed away before I knew that he was involved in the Shriners.

reply to post by lazy1981


On the other hand, the whole Shrine thing could also be a blessing in disguise, especially in the long run. For many years, a large number of Master Masons were joining the Scottish Rite just so they could qualify for Shrine membership. Obviously, this defeated the whole purpose of the Scottish Rite. Masons who had absolutely no interest in the Scottish Rite were joining it in busloads just so they could become Shriners. Once they got their 32°, they went on and joined the Shrine, and never returned to participate in the Scottish Rite.

At least now, when Masons join the Scottish Rite, they're doing it because they want to be Scottish Rite Masons, instead of using it as a stepping stone for the Shrine.

reply to post by Masonic Light


At the risk of sounding very agreeable, I have to say that you make a good point in both viewpoints.

Why didn't they join the York Rite seeing as how it has less deg.?
Not that it is the right thing to do but at the least it would take them less time, one would think.

Originally posted by lazy1981


Why didn't they join the York Rite seeing as how it has less deg.?
Not that it is the right thing to do but at the least it would take them less time, one would think.

Actually, the York Rite took me longer. The Scottish Rite confers degrees at Reunions, which are usually 2 weekends. The degrees are done back-to-back, usually on a large number of candidates, so theoretically, a Master Mason can complete the degrees and be a 32° Scottish Rite Mason in a couple of weeks.

My York Rite organizations have "slow classes", where only one degree a month is conferred. But some York Rite bodies have "festivals" that last a couple of weekends, just like the Scottish Rite.

So, the latest Mason thread disappeared, which means there is a bias here. ATS is pro-Mason, at the least. It's a shame because anything really should be fair game in this forum. It is labelled Secret Societies. What the Masons do behind closed doors is secret and it's a society.

What's up with the dead thread?