Any ATS members on the Square????

clevengercm,

Hello and Welcome to the asylum. You see how quickly this degenerated into a wrestling match. That's why we show up here, it's great entertainment.

I'm a MM here in San Diego, currently the SD for the year, and tonight I had the distinct pleasure of sitting in the East as Master for the time and opened and obligated a new brother.

I have yet to meet a PHM here in San Diego, although I know that there are many here in town. I am told that watching a PH Degree is interesting, because of the distinct way that they do their ritual. I'm looking forward to that, because I enjoy watching good ritual work, it's all very interesting to me.

I am personally enjoying my Masonic education quite a bit. I am currently involved in Royal Arch here also, and also the Allied Masonic Degrees, which is an invitation only educational and historical group. We write Quarterly papers and present them to our respsective groups. Guess I'm kind of a geek and history buff at heart.

It's good to have a new member present and accounted for. Don't let the locals worry you too much, Some of these folks don't get out much. LOL

Originally posted by Roark
Stonewalling who? The IRS? I'm fairly certain that, if that was the case, they would have had their tax status revoked.

Nonsense. Do you remember a few years ago the scandal regarding United Way? Misappropriation of funds doesn't automatically lead no loss of nonprofit tax status. The fact is, philanthropy's dirty little secret is that the government is very lax in monitoring nonprofits. There are hundreds of thousands of them in the US, and there's no way to monitor them. The abuse of nonprofit status is widespread and the Shriners are hardly the only offenders.

Here's an example of one of the non-hospital uses of the assets of one of the largest nonprofit in the US: SLAPP lawsuits. miami.indymedia.org...

Oh, you were talking about having more than something from an "e-journalist." Will the New York Times do?

A top Shrine official told a meeting of temple treasurers that poor accounting for cash coming into the organization was “an increasingly common problem,” and that more than 30 temples had discovered fraud — like theft of money and inventory, altered bank statements, padded payrolls and fake invoices — amounting to as much as $300,000 and involving members of their “divans,” the five-member boards that govern each temple. Yet whistle-blowers like Mr. Goline are often greeted with hostility, retaliation and official sanctions.

Oh do read the full article, it's an interesting read.

www.nytimes.com...

You said you were truly interested. Does this help?

Its a routine cleaning company that has access to the lodge's library weekly. Theres quite interesting stuff in there and Im positive you cant find these in a library?! Lmfao! For now Ill just absorb whatever we can possibly get our hands on the oldest looking work in there.

[edit on 17-7-2007 by topsecretombomb]

Originally posted by yuefo
Oh, you were talking about having more than something from an "e-journalist." Will the New York Times do?

Oh do read the full article, it's an interesting read.

www.nytimes.com...

You said you were truly interested. Does this help?

It's certainly a lot more thorough and doesn't rely on a single (disgruntled) source.

The repeated co-mingling of funds for charity and fraternal costs is disturbing.

I guess I'm just shocked that there hasn't been an investigation by the Government. This would be a major scandal in Australia, and there would be much whingeing from the public until someone investigated it in an official capacity.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb




Its a routine cleaning company that has access to the lodge's library weekly. Theres quite interesting stuff in there and Im positive you cant find these in a library?! Lmfao! For now Ill just absorb whatever we can possibly get our hands on the oldest looking work in there.

Well, there's nothing in a Lodge library that can't be found in a good public library. Also, who's ever heard of a Lodge hiring a cleaning company? Lodges have building committees, made up of their own volunteer members, who clean the buildings for free.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb






Its a routine cleaning company that has access to the lodge's library weekly. Theres quite interesting stuff in there and Im positive you cant find these in a library?! Lmfao! For now Ill just absorb whatever we can possibly get our hands on the oldest looking work in there.

[edit on 17-7-2007 by topsecretombomb]

Then I assume you have never been to a good used book store.

All the books within a Masonic Library have to be bought somewhere no? Or, do you think there are special Masonic bookstores to? There is nothing "special" except maybe old copies of minutes and so forth. But honestly, thats not that "special" ..

"Brother Steve as put forth a motion to pay the lodge bills"

"Any one second this motion"

"I do Worshipful"

Ok janitor you found our secret mysteries! Which lodge (number) do you clean (if you really do)?

As I said before, most Masonic libraries are a collection or a collection of collections, most bought on their own, as individuals from book sellers.


I suppose the best way to get to the bottom of this is to ask you.. what exactly is it you saw?

And yes, you can say it, as we do not keep anything private within libraries.

Originally posted by sharkman
clevengercm,

Hello and Welcome to the asylum. You see how quickly this degenerated into a wrestling match. That's why we show up here, it's great entertainment.

I'm a MM here in San Diego, currently the SD for the year, and tonight I had the distinct pleasure of sitting in the East as Master for the time and opened and obligated a new brother.

I have yet to meet a PHM here in San Diego, although I know that there are many here in town. I am told that watching a PH Degree is interesting, because of the distinct way that they do their ritual. I'm looking forward to that, because I enjoy watching good ritual work, it's all very interesting to me.

I am personally enjoying my Masonic education quite a bit. I am currently involved in Royal Arch here also, and also the Allied Masonic Degrees, which is an invitation only educational and historical group. We write Quarterly papers and present them to our respsective groups. Guess I'm kind of a geek and history buff at heart.

It's good to have a new member present and accounted for. Don't let the locals worry you too much, Some of these folks don't get out much. LOL

Pleased to meet you, pleased to greet you Bro

I had a few question for you Masons in the building, but let me temper my questions forth.

I think I understand some of Masonry and know that it is a fraternity of open-mindedness. I was thinking about joining just to make friendships and share ideas. I am always looking for fellowship and greater understanding. I have not yet decided that I would even join the Masons. I am just wondering a couple of things. I am also not rich, or even well of, yet. I am also Catholic, which I know use to excommunicate for joining, but no longer. I am always looking to evolve as a person, as we are always evolving.

I know you guys can't give up to much info, so if you do feel like answering feel free to skirt around. I'll understand. These are probably some stupid questions, but I know not much about Masonry and have no close friends who are Masons. Though one of my uncles (now past) was a Mason and he was an awesome guy. I still don't know much.

-First off, when you join do you have to pay dues?
-Do you have to pay dues if you can't? I guess you could call me a starving artist not in good health carrying luggage up a hill currently. I am addressing all issues at the moment besides being an artist. I can cope.
-I am naturally anti-authority, mainly with bad or mindless authority. Do people in your group have power over you? Not as in knowledge power. I know it's a fraternity, so that may be a stupid question.
-Is Freemasonry a good place to meet people? I know probably another stupid question, but I'm naive humor me.
-Is it really open-minded?
-Do I need to "know someone" to join?
-Is there much snobbery in the Masons?
-Is there any reason not to join, based on experience?
-Do you have to know someone to join?
-What is the easiest way to join?
-Are the Freemasons an evil group? You don't have to answer this one.

I also met a Mason, also a Shriner (I guess), who was the drummer for the Shriners' circus. I met him in a local diner and we mainly talked about drums. I am a drummer, and he was wearing a Zildjian cymbal shirt. So, I approached him knowing the common ground that all drummers have.

He also said that I said look into it (Freemasonry/Shriners), if I was interested when I got older. So, here I am...!

I took it as him not being able to speak at length on the subject, not that a 13 year old would understand big concepts or pretty much anything, lol. I also figured he probably couldn't speak at lengths about it. And he also got his food . I have always been a conspiracy theorist, but never thought Freemasonry was ever an evil group based on those who I've met, who were all pretty amazing people. I guess I am always trying to put the pieces of life and existence together.

I am normally a pretty shy, reserved guy. I guess it's a product of being brought up in a large, Catholic family. So, I have recently thought about going to a lodge to ask, but I guess nature gets the better of us sometimes. And I never have yet.

Any help would be great! I am still pretty undecided on the whole issue, but it is always nice to meet new and open-minded people, at least for me.

Thanks!

Originally posted by frailty


-First off, when you join do you have to pay dues?

No but you must pay initiation fees, although the amount varies from Lodge to Lodge, depending upon their By-Laws. My Lodge charges an initiation fee of thirty dollars for each degree. Once a member becomes a Master Mason (Third Degree), he is required to pay thirty dollars per year in dues.

-Do you have to pay dues if you can't? I guess you could call me a starving artist not in good health carrying luggage up a hill currently. I am addressing all issues at the moment besides being an artist. I can cope.

If a Brother is in dire need, is sick, etc., the Lodge will either remit his dues, or another Brother will volunteer to pay them for him. However, if a Brother is in good health but is neither working nor looking for a job, it is unlikely that the Lodge would pay his dues for him, as this would be considered a neglect of duty rather than a Brother in need.

-I am naturally anti-authority, mainly with bad or mindless authority. Do people in your group have power over you? Not as in knowledge power. I know it's a fraternity, so that may be a stupid question.

There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers.

When Masons meet in the Lodge we say, in Masonic language, that we "meet on the level". This means that we recognize each other as equals. Masonry of course must have a form of government, which is the Lodge's elected officials, who in turn are subordinate to Grand Lodge, which consists of representatives of each Lodge in the state.

But even the Worshipful Master, who is the Lodge's chief official and presiding officer, is only the first among equals. For example, I served as Master of my Lodge about 9 years ago. When I was installed, I was placed in the Master's Chair, and each member passed by me, and saluted me in the regular Masonic fashion. But I did not see it as if they were saluting me personally: I'm just an old country boy, not a royal. Instead, they were the saluting the office, and the high ideals it stood for.

All must adhere to Masonic law, which is written in the Constitution and Code of the Grand Lodge, as well as the Lodge's own By-Laws. Even though the Worshipful Master has a great deal of authority in his Lodge, any member may appeal his decisions to Grand Lodge.

-Is Freemasonry a good place to meet people? I know probably another stupid question, but I'm naive humor me.

For me it was. Some of my best and closest friends are those I have met in the fraternity.

-Is it really open-minded?

Freemasonry is open minded, but that of course does not mean that every Freemason is. Although the fraternity has very high ideals, it is nevertheless composed of fallible humans, and fallible humans do not always live up to ther ideals.

-Do I need to "know someone" to join?

Yes, although if you express your interest to your local Lodge, their membership committee will meet with you several times, and get to know you.

-Is there much snobbery in the Masons?

In my experience, the majority of Masons are some of the least snobbish, and most big-hearted people that I've ever met. I'll never forget one time when it was announced in my Lodge by a Brother that his next door neighbor, an elderly widow, was getting kicked out of her house because she could not make the mortgage payment, and was there anything the Lodge could do to help? Another Brother, a successful local businessman, said he would take care of it. Not only did he make the mortgage payment: he paid off the mortgage itself.

I was young in Masonry at that time, but that act of kindness to a perfect stranger impressed me deeply.

-Is there any reason not to join, based on experience?

I would certainly do it again.

-Do you have to know someone to join?

Yes, see above about membership committee.

-What is the easiest way to join?

Probably these days to just email the Grand Lodge office in your state, express your interest, and ask for local contact information. I was initiated long before I had email, so I didn't have that option, hahaha.

-Are the Freemasons an evil group?

Only the ones on ATS.

30 dollars a year for dues...damn, I pay $120 for blue $85 for Scottish Rite and another 130 for shrine....

Wow 120 for Blue? Its only 65 in my state.

Thanks for the excellent the info Masonic Light.

I have a couple more question. I am currently going through some tough times with medical problems, which stems from a pituitary brain tumor I had as an adolescent and had removed. I am pretty much flat broke and have some debt (in the process of getting SSI). I am also currently unemployed and probably won't be able to get employment until I get all squared away medically, which probably take 6 months to a year, at least, that is what my doc says.

I was wondering, if I should just wait to look into it further, since I obviously couldn't pay dues right from the start? Would this be "frowned" upon?

I mean it seems like something I would be interested in getting into, but I am patient if it better for me to wait until I am in health to get employed and pay for myself.

Thank you again for all the help.

Originally posted by frailty


I was wondering, if I should just wait to look into it further, since I obviously couldn't pay dues right from the start? Would this be "frowned" upon?

I would recommend that you wait for several reasons. First, when one is in the process of taking his degrees, it takes a lot of time and commitment, which you may be unable to devote while experiencing medical problems.

Secondly, while dues may be waived for those members unable to pay, initial fees and first year due cannot be waived. This is because it is generally expensive for Lodges to confer degrees, and pay the Grand Lodge fees.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by topsecretombomb




Its a routine cleaning company that has access to the lodge's library weekly. Theres quite interesting stuff in there and Im positive you cant find these in a library?! Lmfao! For now Ill just absorb whatever we can possibly get our hands on the oldest looking work in there.

Well, there's nothing in a Lodge library that can't be found in a good public library. Also, who's ever heard of a Lodge hiring a cleaning company? Lodges have building committees, made up of their own volunteer members, who clean the buildings for free.

That is the most utter complete crap Ive ever read in my life. No this cleaning business isnt a free one who cleans buildings for free? Come on guys, these guys are a cleaning business whose given their own set of keys to a lodge. I know a person that helps clean our lodge and have access to their library. Simple as that! No you cant find whats in a Masonic library in a normal library lmfao, thats gotta be the most propostrous claim Ive read in a while lol. Continue trying to snow everybody! You may snow others but not me. I know what Ive read, seen, witnessed first hand lol.

Originally posted by yuefo

Originally posted by Roark
Stonewalling who? The IRS? I'm fairly certain that, if that was the case, they would have had their tax status revoked.

Nonsense. Do you remember a few years ago the scandal regarding United Way? Misappropriation of funds doesn't automatically lead no loss of nonprofit tax status. The fact is, philanthropy's dirty little secret is that the government is very lax in monitoring nonprofits. There are hundreds of thousands of them in the US, and there's no way to monitor them. The abuse of nonprofit status is widespread and the Shriners are hardly the only offenders.

Here's an example of one of the non-hospital uses of the assets of one of the largest nonprofit in the US: SLAPP lawsuits. miami.indymedia.org...

Oh, you were talking about having more than something from an "e-journalist." Will the New York Times do?

A top Shrine official told a meeting of temple treasurers that poor accounting for cash coming into the organization was “an increasingly common problem,” and that more than 30 temples had discovered fraud — like theft of money and inventory, altered bank statements, padded payrolls and fake invoices — amounting to as much as $300,000 and involving members of their “divans,” the five-member boards that govern each temple. Yet whistle-blowers like Mr. Goline are often greeted with hostility, retaliation and official sanctions.

Oh do read the full article, it's an interesting read.

www.nytimes.com...

You said you were truly interested. Does this help?

Agreed Yuefo, keep up the good work youre doing a wonderful job. Most non profit organizations have some type of hypocrisy to them no matter what people say. Everyone here should start getting into The Prophecy Club and learn from people who are Ex-Masons coming forward to the public.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb

That is the most utter complete crap Ive ever read in my life. No this cleaning business isnt a free one who cleans buildings for free? Come on guys, these guys are a cleaning business whose given their own set of keys to a lodge. I know a person that helps clean our lodge and have access to their library. Simple as that! No you cant find whats in a Masonic library in a normal library lmfao, thats gotta be the most propostrous claim Ive read in a while lol. Continue trying to snow everybody! You may snow others but not me. I know what Ive read, seen, witnessed first hand lol.

What exactly are we trying to hide here? Interested in a Masonic Library are we? Go to the Iowa Masonic Library. It's HUGE and it's open to the public.

travel.yahoo.com...

showcase.netins.net...

Or the Livingston Masonic Library

www.nymasoniclibrary.org...

Or perhaps to the Supreme Council in D.C.

www.scottishrite.org...

Should I continue or are you yet convinced that a Non-Mason CAN see what's inside a Masonic library...indeed he or she can READ the books in a Masonic Library.

My own local lodge has quite a nice library, and while it's not open to the general public, the only reason it isn't is we have no one to "staff" it. If a non-Mason (or a Mason for that matter who wasn't a member of our Lodge) wanted to see it and read books that are in it, he or she would be welcome to but they'd have to do so around 7:30 p.m. on the 1st and 3rd Tuesdays of each month....'cause that's the only time anyone is in the building. Otherwise...nothing secret to see here...no one being [ahem] "snowed" as you say.

Originally posted by topsecretombomb

Come on guys, these guys are a cleaning business whose given their own set of keys to a lodge.

Yeah, right.

I know a person that helps clean our lodge and have access to their library. Simple as that! No you cant find whats in a Masonic library in a normal library lmfao, thats gotta be the most propostrous claim Ive read in a while lol. Continue trying to snow everybody! You may snow others but not me. I know what Ive read, seen, witnessed first hand lol.

lol, what utter nonsense. Perhaps you should do a little research before coming on here and making a fool of yourself.

For example, you seem to be totally ignorant of the fact that that the very first public library in Washington, D.C. was the library in the Scottish Rite Temple!

Or the fact that books are published by publishing companies to the public for sale, not by secret Masonic bookstores.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

I would recommend that you wait for several reasons. First, when one is in the process of taking his degrees, it takes a lot of time and commitment, which you may be unable to devote while experiencing medical problems.

Secondly, while dues may be waived for those members unable to pay, initial fees and first year due cannot be waived. This is because it is generally expensive for Lodges to confer degrees, and pay the Grand Lodge fees.

Thank You for all the honest info Masonic Light.

I'd figure I'd just wait anyhow, and concentrate on the most important stuff in my life for now, until I get everything taken care of medically. I think I'd rather start with something like this when I know for sure I wouldn't be a burden on others. I feel like for me it would probably be better to start, when I know I will have no medical hurdles in my way to overcome.

At least now, I know it is something I really may be interested in doing down the road. For now, at least I have more than enough time to read, write, make music and spend time with family and friends, which is good enough for me. I also have enough time to BS on great sites like ATS.

Thanks again for all the help, most helpful and much appreciated.

I'm a current member of the illuminati order in sweden, sad to say that's all I can tell about the order i'm currently in. But as you I'm a mason since 8 years ago, and well, there will allways be somewhat secret societies around the world, but with the Internet today everything isn't as secret as it used to be.

I've been watching over the abovetopsecret forums for years now but never actually joined until today. There's alot of interesting stuff and information on this site and some of it more science fiction than anything else and some of it is closer to the reality that people would understand.

I've allways enjoyed reading in the forums here and now as a member maybe it's time for me to contribute also..

Best regards all the way from Sweden
-- The truth is within yourselves --

The idea I have had about Masons is this.

A bunch of guys who need a place to go to get away from the women folk for a few hours out of the day! Its why women are not allowed.
So you have groups of guys hidding out in basements drinking and talking to their fellow man. Its always been about frat lifestyle, and getting out of the house, and away from the kids, and most of all that naggin wife of yours..

Thats my understanding...