Lust of the flesh.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
First of all Dbates your wrong, your just trying to justify your sins.

dbates has good, sound theological reasoning here. as well as simple logic. women really don't need any demonic help to look absolutely gorgeous.

Not only did God institue a church 2000 years ago, from which the hiearchy was taught by God what manner sins were. masturbation was one of them.

actually, it would have to be 1960ish years...
and can you show me where god set all this up?

Its an act of lust to (someone you are not lawfully married to) for a simply selfish gratification.

sex outside of marriage is selfish gratification as well?
clearly someone doesn't understand that you can care for a person without marriage...

your wrong.

see, you really don't have an argument when you just say a statement like "you're wrong"

secondly, for the arrogance runs wild, but the OT says it would be beter to spill your seed in the belly of a whore than t waste it.

it also says not to eat shellfish, pork or meat and dairy at the same time...

Its precious. If you waste it, your wasting precious seed God commanded you to wait until you find a women, this is a fact, I will not listen to you, and any sincere soul is not going to listen to you over God himself and his church.

nocturnal emissions... they're a natural mechanism by which "seed" is "spilled"
now, you believe god made humanity, why would god create something so sinful?

Now I am guilty of sin, and I will pay, and God makes me pay everyday by severe anxiety, I dont like what I have done.

well, so much for that loving god of yours...

" its flipping awesome "

Yea so. if I said its ok, does that mean my enthusiasm is laking? I knows its great, its just sex son, just sex.

"son"?
wow... i wouldn't talk like that to dbates. i've got too much respect there

and it's not "just sex"
sex is quite the connection to someone.

I know its great Dbates, but God gives some people his grace to view women as he does, not throw human needs.

it's really bothering me because it's making some of your posts a bit on the unreadable side, work on your writing skills.

anyway...
women are beautiful...well, some more than others
if it's wrong to look at them like that, your deity did something wrong in making them that way.

some of the saints stayed virgings and aquired the angelic virtue.

male saints still spilled seed through nocturnal emissions. i guess it would have been better for them to bed whores instead...

seriously, its a special thing God created for two souls who are legally joined together forever. Its not a bad thing in the right circumstances.

can you actually give me reasoning as to why two consenting adults of legal age who love and care about each other outside of the context of a legal contract having sex is wrong?
i'm talking logic here. separate it from your religion for a second
give me some sort of objectivity as to why it is wrong

Reply to JesusisTruth

What makes you think they will listen to you?

Morals have totally collapsed and everything related to sexual lust/desire is becoming Normal now.

When kids are bought up in such a society with such morals, than you can’t expect them to listen to your preaching as they will view you having ‘old caveman ideas’.

Its all about your society,friends,family etc.. they are the people you are around all the time and you tend to follow them.

Than you have the Media portraying sex all the time.

So what can you expect from the innocent young men/women to do when all this is just normal to them?

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
the OT says it would be beter to spill your seed in the belly of a whore than t waste it.

You're just making up stuff to fit your agenda. I challenge you to show me where the Bible says it's better to have sex with a whore than to masturbate. The Bible I read has many, many warnings about prostitutes. Sad that you would stoop to fabricated lies.

There's only one story in the Bible that addresses "spilt seed" and that didn't involve masturbation. You can read about it here. Onan was killed because he wouldn't give his dead brother's wife a son. That was a widow's only means of supporting herself in her older age. Judah (his father) told him to go give Tamar an heir. Onan mocked him by having sex with her while attempting to not get her pregnant. He was killed for his disobedience. Not for spilling seed.

Later, we see that Moses even puts into law the practice of giving your dead brother's childless widow a son.

Deuteronomy 25:5
If brothers are living together and one of them dies without a son, his widow must not marry outside the family. Her husband's brother shall take her and marry her and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her.

Keep reading after that and you'll see that if he refuses to give her a child she's prompted to take his shoes and spit in his face. His actions are repulsive. He's actually considered a scum for not having sex with her. The story in Genesis 8 results in the death of Onan because he lied to his father about helping his brother's widow. Also, Tamar was only pretending to be a prostitue so she could have a child.

The only other reference to male emissions is in Leviticus 15 which only says that you should clean up after sex or if you get ejaculate on your clothes.

"the OT says it would be beter to spill your seed in the belly of a whore than t waste it."

Indeed! Better to let people believe you're a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Your ignorance of the Bible is showing. I could handle that, but the flat out lies you tell are astounding.

[edit on 23-1-2008 by dbates]

Lot of evil comes out of the lust of the flesh. Men are weak, but so are women. They want to be attractive, they put out the bait for the men to fall for. Everything and anything is done by women to look attractive. It's all worthless.

Seed in the Bible

Etymologically, the word Semen comes from the Latin word for seed.

From Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Semen
Etymology: Middle English, from Latin, seed, semen; akin to Old High German sāmo seed, Latin serere to sow — more at sow

In the following Bible verses, the word seed, appears numerous times. It is translated from the Greek word sperma, meaning seed (sperm).

G4690
σπέρμα
sperma
sper'-mah
From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male “sperm”); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): - issue, seed.

Galatians 3:15-16
Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”who is Christ.

1 John 3:9
Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

Inverencial Peace,
Akashic

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Its precious. If you waste it, your wasting precious seed God commanded you to wait until you find a women, this is a fact,

So, if you've already had a vasectomy is it wrong to "spill your seed"? You're not wasting any sperm so that should be fine right?

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
Its precious. If you waste it, your wasting precious seed God commanded you to wait until you find a women, this is a fact,

So, if you've already had a vasectomy is it wrong to "spill your seed"? You're not wasting any sperm so that should be fine right?

Exactly.. if you shoot blanks you can leave it wherever you want and it it's not considered a sin. You just are not alloud to enjoy it if it doesn't create pregnancy... or is that only within a marriage? hang on.. is it that you are alloud to enjoy it.. but you have to pretend not to? it's confusing these days..

Woah! Heh.

I don't agree much with db, but I likee your stylee here.

Never quite understood the focus on the 'evils' of sex by some theists. It's as natural as eating, as you point out well. As long as we keep these natural motivations under control, what's the problem?

ABE: I just had to find this, as this is the expression that came to mind over the last few posts:



The famous Kenneth Williams, of course.

[edit on 24-1-2008 by melatonin]

While we're on the subject. Why hasn't anyone mentioned this song from Monty Python's The Meaning of Life yet? You know the one I'm speaking of.

Every Sperm is Sacred.

reply to post by melatonin




The problem would be keeping them under control. Far too many in this world have proven they're incapable of doing so.

My solution would be legalized prostitution. Never quite hear the feminists fight for that right though, do you? But the benefits would be great. First of all you could get keep tabs on the workers, making sure they aren't sex slaves. It'd also lower the number of rapes dramatically.

Hell, it just might be able to get us out of this recession.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
the OT says it would be beter to spill your seed in the belly of a whore than t waste it.

So it's better to be promiscuous, and have sex with someone you don't have any emotional connection with at all?

What about couples who cannot conceive a child because one of them is infertile? So, prior to learning that they are unable to conceive, are their attempts "sinful" because the "seed is wasted"? I guess the answer will be no, because the intent was to create a life. Well, what about after they learn that they will not be able to have children? Should they not express their love for each other in a physical way, because they know that a child won't be the result?

It doesn't count as spilled seed, I guess, if the man is infertile. But what about the woman? If a man has sex with his barren wife, he is technically spilling his seed. I guess he'd be better off putting it into "the belly of a whore."

As a woman, I have found this whole topic offensive from the beginning. If you can't handle your lustful thoughts about me... that is your problem with own self control. As for this other part of the topic regarding "spilling seed"... Sorry. Just because I have the body parts to carry and give birth to a baby, it doesn't mean that that's all I'm good for. I am damn glad that I chose to put my shoes on and go to law school, rather than be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

I just prefer to believe in a God who, when I die, will judge me on the basis of my character and how I treated others. Not on whether I took birth control pills (for medical reasons and not for controlling birth!), or got it on with my husband.

Originally posted by TheHypnoToad
If a man has sex with his barren wife, he is technically spilling his seed. I guess he'd be better off putting it into "the belly of a whore."

Nice. Yes, the Roman Catholic attitude towards sex leads to several ridiculious scenarios. Obviously there's something completely wrong with this line of thought.

I think we all know, and that God knows, that it's the combination of the egg and sperm that creates a new life. Each one on it's own is only potential life. Not life. Did I mention that intercourse results in the release of 200 million to 300 million sperm? Yes, on page 2 of this thread. It would be sad to think that sex resulted in the death of 200 million individuals since only one makes it at best.

reply to post by dbates


Your knowledge of the Bible and Theological concerns is...Impecable.

Well done.

Stared and Flagged

~Ducky~

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
First of all Dbates your wrong, your just trying to justify your sins.

dbates has good, sound theological reasoning here. as well as simple logic. women really don't need any demonic help to look absolutely gorgeous.


Thats true, but those faces are literal demons in a women. And if mr Dbates is going to use scripture, let him use the passages about possesion which are everywhere. They are inticing looks not of themselves. Satan can work on the facilities of the soul.

Not only did God institue a church 2000 years ago, from which the hiearchy was taught by God what manner sins were. masturbation was one of them.

actually, it would have to be 1960ish years...
and can you show me where god set all this up?

The bible madness said God would make a church founded on the rock of peter that would last until the end.

Its an act of lust to (someone you are not lawfully married to) for a simply selfish gratification.

sex outside of marriage is selfish gratification as well?
clearly someone doesn't understand that you can care for a person without marriage...

Yes... true... But that tie of two souls is bonded by Gods grace, infidelity and cheating breaks that and its not of God

your wrong.

see, you really don't have an argument when you just say a statement like "you're wrong"

neither do you when you say the same.

secondly, for the arrogance runs wild, but the OT says it would be beter to spill your seed in the belly of a whore than t waste it.

it also says not to eat shellfish, pork or meat and dairy at the same time...

I was wrong the OT does not say that, I made mistake.... No the ot says you can eat meats..

Its precious. If you waste it, your wasting precious seed God commanded you to wait until you find a women, this is a fact, I will not listen to you, and any sincere soul is not going to listen to you over God himself and his church.

nocturnal emissions... they're a natural mechanism by which "seed" is "spilled"
now, you believe god made humanity, why would god create something so sinful?

Yea bot God commaned a cleaning of several days after that natural spilling. God made it good to make people have sex to creat kids, but its got to be confined to marriage.

Now I am guilty of sin, and I will pay, and God makes me pay everyday by severe anxiety, I dont like what I have done.

well, so much for that loving god of yours...

No is called a chastisement. My dad beat me when I was young, and I repsected him for it. God does the same fatherly deeds.

" its flipping awesome "

Yea so. if I said its ok, does that mean my enthusiasm is laking? I knows its great, its just sex son, just sex.

"son"?
wow... i wouldn't talk like that to dbates. i've got too much respect there

and it's not "just sex"
sex is quite the connection to someone.

I know I say son out of habit. when I say its just sex I mean in moderation. Its good, but flippin awesome sounds like the words of a horny teen

I know its great Dbates, but God gives some people his grace to view women as he does, not throw human needs.

it's really bothering me because it's making some of your posts a bit on the unreadable side, work on your writing skills.

anyway...
women are beautiful...well, some more than others
if it's wrong to look at them like that, your deity did something wrong in making them that way.

No its not wrong. He told women to cover because of the sin of eve.

some of the saints stayed virgings and aquired the angelic virtue.

male saints still spilled seed through nocturnal emissions. i guess it would have been better for them to bed whores instead...

No, they were not aware of it. Its about the will to choose to look at a women and masturbate to someone you dont know

seriously, its a special thing God created for two souls who are legally joined together forever. Its not a bad thing in the right circumstances.

can you actually give me reasoning as to why two consenting adults of legal age who love and care about each other outside of the context of a legal contract having sex is wrong?
i'm talking logic here. separate it from your religion for a second
give me some sort of objectivity as to why it is wrong

Because God institued it. he made us. If you love each other so much, then why not bindit with God for eternity, unless of course the love is more of a scratch my back, ill do yours.


peace.

Originally posted by TheHypnoToad

So it's better to be promiscuous, and have sex with someone you don't have any emotional connection with at all?

I was wrong, that passage is not in the OT or NT... And I do believe that God would rather you not waste any seed by your own will to someone your not married to....



What about couples who cannot conceive a child because one of them is infertile? So, prior to learning that they are unable to conceive, are their attempts "sinful" because the "seed is wasted"?

Thats right the answer is no. If they cant concieve, they can still express their attraction to each other physically, as I think God would allow that..

its just when we wasted seed over some 10 second rush or thrill to a women whose posed in a magazine that is someone we dont know... there is no bond their. Its just gratification...

Now I know hormones are bad, trust me I know, but we need to exppand our faith and ask God for help instead of sinning....




I guess the answer will be no, because the intent was to create a life. Well, what about after they learn that they will not be able to have children? Should they not express their love for each other in a physical way, because they know that a child won't be the result?

It doesn't count as spilled seed, I guess, if the man is infertile. But what about the woman? If a man has sex with his barren wife, he is technically spilling his seed. I guess he'd be better off putting it into "the belly of a whore."

As a woman, I have found this whole topic offensive from the beginning. If you can't handle your lustful thoughts about me... that is your problem with own self control. As for this other part of the topic regarding "spilling seed"... Sorry. Just because I have the body parts to carry and give birth to a baby, it doesn't mean that that's all I'm good for. I am damn glad that I chose to put my shoes on and go to law school, rather than be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.


yea so, that doesnt mean anything. I have no problem with Law school, I can hear femism coming out in that qoute.

I just prefer to believe in a God who, when I die, will judge me on the basis of my character and how I treated others. Not on whether I took birth control pills (for medical reasons and not for controlling birth!), or got it on with my husband.

Women, the basis of your character i Gods grace. All goodness is from him. So your good works are not you driven, God placed it in you. You were baptised so I believe you carry that character around with you which doesnt leave.

And about getting it on with your husband. Yea this sounds about right. Its the age of hech yea speech...

You do love him right? ofcourse... but some people treat sex as a (get it on) ONLY attitude and they creat kids out of wedlock and destroy lives...


God has no problem with sex, or how many times ou get it on, he just has a problem with sin..


peace.

sorry

My responses were in Hypos qoute. I dont know how to work this computer still..

peace.

Dbates..

That qoute is not in the bible, I thoguht it was but it wasnt... The fact is is that not just masturbation is a sin, but even looking at a women with lust is....

Jesus himself said that.

1. You cant prove hat masturbation is approved by God in scripture.

The fact is, is the 2000 years before your time Dbates, God made a church, and te church has taught about sins for 2000 years, as he gave the apostles to (loose) and (bind) on earth.

furthermore he gave them the ability to interpret scripture by an organized head....


2. The fact Jesus said to not even look at a women with lust or think about one, is sinful and equal to adultury.

this is a fact... you can deny all you want, but its true from Christ himself and any Christian can see this... Just as long as they speak the truth and donttry and deny things to promote their sins...


So im sorry about saying that wasin the nT, but the fact is its been a sin for 2000 years and still is, and is baised on Christ words..


peace.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth

yea so, that doesnt mean anything. I have no problem with Law school, I can hear femism coming out in that qoute.

What I said doesn't mean anything? This whole thread is basically about how it's women that need to cover up, and not men that need to control themselves. That's how the whole thing started. You can hear feminism coming out in that quote? I hear sexism coming out all over this damn thread. I wouldn't characterize myself as a feminist. Call me whatever you feel like, though.

Originally posted by JesusisTruth
And about getting it on with your husband. Yea this sounds about right. Its the age of hech yea speech...

Can you explain how "this sounds about right"? Maybe I just prefer the term "getting it on" to "exchange of seed." I'll refer to my relations with my husband in whatever terms I wish. And yes, I do love him. No matter what I call it, it's still a physical act that I engage in because I love him. Not that I have to explain myself and my relationship to anyone.