Pope Says, "Christian Churches not real Churches."

Benedict is a hardliner, and his conservative views are becoming more conservative Catholic behavior.

When I was a kind, pre-Vaticann II, only Catholics were of the true religion. Non-Christians went to hell. Non-Catholics had to go to purgatory first, before they got to heaven. Catholics couldn't marry non-Catholics. Suicides couldn't be buried in the Church. Mass was said only in Latin.
Most, if not all of these things went away.

Now, this Catholic, non-Catholic non-Christain thing rears it ugly head. :shk:

And this:
Pope revives old Latin Mass in concession to tradition; denies rollback of Vatican II

How far is he willing to go with "tradition" before it becomes something negative and restrictive.



Organized religion, I think I'll pass.......

Originally posted by johnsky
This is one of the things I love about having come to the realization that made me atheist... I can step back, look at all the religions of the world, and realize just how childish and vicious they are at the same time.

Organized religions claim they preach peace... meanwhile condoning attacks on each other.

Organized religions love to take a chunk out of other religions, regardless of how closely related they are.

Organized religion is one of the best sources of really stupid quotes.

I don't have to do a thing, religion attacks itself.

Too true my friend. Events at the Red Mosque in Pakistan say pretty well all that needs to be said about these crazies - wether they be muslim, christian or whatever. Organised religion is a sham, and extremism is the inevitable end result. Personally, I'm all for outlawing all organised religions....but then, maybe that's just me. Although I think a great number of educated people around the world would agree with me....if only it could be done...

J.

Originally posted by BugZyZuncle

His biggest enemies, and the ones whom had him crucified, were the established religious orders of the day; pharisees, saducees, and scribes.

Bingo!!!! That is exactly what most "Christians" don't understand. I am glad to see that I am not the only one that sees.

Just because the Catholic Church was put into place to keep order in mid century Rome and so forth. Doesn't mean that all Organized Religion is of such consequence. I mean ... SHOW ME one other religion that has ever said this is what to believe and this is what to do because we read it here ... and you are not allowed to read it from there yourself. ... BEATS anything I have ever heard .... NO wonder there were so many Travesties whenever Catholicism was FULL FLEDGED ...

Gee, I read all of this, and I see G. W. Bush. with his whole "do as I say, not as I do" attitude.

Thankfully, I am a Native American, and to me the concept of organized worship is as idiotic as the idea of tap dancing fish. How some people ever came to the idea, and others accepted it, that any relationship between man and a Creator could be other than totally personal is beyond me.

But then, I realize that the Catholic church has confession, where people feel the need to discuss their sex lives, so I guess nothing is too personal for some folks.

Well you could outlaw organized religion but then again what constitutes organized religion. A building, a certain number or attendees, a certain dogma?

Outlawing thought or belief is fraught with peril.

I have never personally had a problem with any person of faith, I have my belief system and I leave them to thiers.

I think the small churches are best, the mega churches have become money making exercises and involved themselves to much into the political realm, I am not saying people fo faith should not vote thier conscience I expect them to do so. I dont believe that Pastors Priests Imams or Rabbis should be telling thier flocks how to vote and keep thier advice in the faith and spiritual realm.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Bingo!!!! That is exactly what most "Christians" don't understand. I am glad to see that I am not the only one that sees.

The order of the day were not Christians.

There are many, many differences between Christian and Catholic.

Statues and Idols, praying to saints, working to salvation as apposed to simple crosses or nothing, praying directly to the Father and working from salvation.

Jesus is different in that he was the only sin free man to live on the planet and yes we are directed to assemble in groups. However, some groups are misguided and this usually happens when a person is held in too high regard.

A good Christian church is truly a great place to be but unfortunately there are plenty that teach wrongly. This is where many people get jaded and abandon the church altogether. I simply know that they are not teaching scripture as they should and move on until I find one that is.

I could never understand why the Catholic church runs the way it does.

I watched a Program a bit back and then another one on how the Christians Believe in the Rapture, But the rapture was a vision froma lil girl in Ireland, and she saw jesus comming two times, One to Sweep up the faithful and then again to Judge, this one guy who was a Adulterer and embezzeler took these visions and made it into the rapture. He then got to published in the bible thru "unorthodox" methods so that it would be on the same page as actual scripture, and this is the bible most christians believe in,

The Left behind series and all those HUGE churches full of young teenie christians ( who push their views and ideals apon all who walk their path) keep saying they are going to be Swept up when jesus comes down and they will goto heaven.

The Pope well actually another guy in the vactican was writting a document stating the exact opposite, saying that even the most wicked have a chance to be redeemed.

This is just another tactic to force or SCARE people into believing one religion over another.

God is a spiritual being like biggie said, he cares nothing of material things, and deffinetly wouldnt just Shoot up to heaven all those people leaving their Planes, cars, homes and whatever to Kill all those millions of people in horrific accidents.

God cares, and many will understand that Your heart, body and mind are yer temple. Your Actions are to be judged rather then your beliefs.

I really hope he continues his tirade against other religions and denominations of Christianity...it will be interesting to see how it develops.

:shk: ya'll didn't bother to read the entire article ... or put the words into context. It's just fun to bash the Catholics ... eh?

He said - other faiths don't have APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION - therefore they are not true 'churches' in that sense.... IN THAT SENSE.

Jeeeeeeeeeze .... :shk:

To be a 'true church' in Catholicism one must have apostolic succession. Without it you are 'a church' but not 'a true church'.

The Catholic Catechism says that ALL CHRISTIAN FAITHS have some truth, to varying degrees, in them. The Catholic Catechism also says that only the Catholic faith has it all correct and is therefore 'THE church'.

Every faith believes they are the ones to have it right and that all others have only part - or none- of it right.

What the Church says about the Apostolic Church - EWTN Library



[edit on 7/10/2007 by FlyersFan]

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe

Organized religion, I think I'll pass.......

Touche my friend. What I liked about Jesus is he said things like, "Ye without sin cast the first stone." And, "Whatever you see me do, you can do and more."

"Open your eyes, look past the disguise, realize that you need to find the answers inside." -Kleverone



[edit on 10-7-2007 by kleverone]

So what this means when the king of the Vatican said to its faithfully followers that Christian Churches are not real churches?

He is declaring the war against other denomination churches actually he may be right on one point, that is the one showing that after the birth of the Christian Church in Rome all other denominations are bastard child of the original.

That is because most of the secondary branches of Christianity were born because independent groups felt that the original church did not cater to their own needs.

After that it was just a game of religion for the grabs.

I don't like they way one church preaches I always can make my own church.

Freedom of Religion is what we call it.

So what should we do now start the New war against churches

No a chance too much money already involved.

Originally posted by Deus_Brandon
Just because the Catholic Church was put into place to keep order in mid century Rome and so forth. Doesn't mean that all Organized Religion is of such consequence. I mean ... SHOW ME one other religion that has ever said this is what to believe and this is what to do because we read it here ... and you are not allowed to read it from there yourself. ... BEATS anything I have ever heard .... NO wonder there were so many Travesties whenever Catholicism was FULL FLEDGED ...

We have enough organized religion to start wars, but not enough to stop them. ENOUGH SAID!

AAC

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
And this:
Pope revives old Latin Mass in concession to tradition; denies rollback of Vatican II

So what? This is fantastic. A subsection of Catholics prefer the St. Pius V Mass to the Novus Ordo. Now if enough of them are in a parish the priest can have the St. Pius V Mass and not need the Bishops permission to do so. This will bring back the disgruntled 'latin massers' and will perhaps educate the Novus Ordo-ers to better understand what the Mass is supposed to be. Allowing the Latin Mass without the approval of the bishop in no way brings back any of the 'suicides can't be buried in consecrated ground' or 'noncatholics go to hell' thoughts. It's just a way to worship God ... and the prayers are MUCH more reverant and beautiful.

Originally posted by DarkStormCrow
I think what was to make Jesus different from other humans, (without getting into a trinity arguement) is that he is supposed to be the only human without sin and there for the only human that could pay for humanitys sins as a perfect sacrifice upon the cross.

not sure on that havent studied the bible in a while

I always wondered why God was so bloodthirsty that he needed a sacrifice for atonement. I can't wrap my brain around that one

So I choose not to believe it

"Jesus" is the perfect form of "man" a random ordered being that is 1 in a trillion ? in probability.

This gave him a perfect inner connection to GOD and thus the universe.

He could manipulate anything in the universe at will.

He could also time shift and co-locate at will, appearing simultaneously in more then one location, in more then one form and in more then one "time".

"time" is merely a constructed frame of reference used by humans and is not a limitation in the universe.

GOD is the totality of everything in the universe thus can not take a singular shape, however GOD can by the order of probabilities create a being or object that could have perfect enlightenment to become a channel of GOD's expression.

Thus GOD could create a "perfect" beast or bird or human etc. Even lacking any form of communication it may merely be used to view into the world as an observer and as GOD is omni-potent and omni-present may have 1 or a trillion or a limitless number of creatures connected with a "perfect" pathway back to itself providing data and insight into the world.

In fact you and me are also a part of this whether knowingly or not

Originally posted by FlyersFan


Jeeeeeeeeeze .... :shk:

To be a 'true church' in Catholicism one must have apostolic succession. Without it you are 'a church' but not 'a true church'.

The Catholic Catechism says that ALL CHRISTIAN FAITHS have some truth, to varying degrees, in them. The Catholic Catechism also says that only the Catholic faith has it all correct and is therefore 'THE church'.


[edit on 7/10/2007 by FlyersFan]

FF, you never cease to amaze me. Oh, the big powerful pope admits that others have some of the truth? Jeeeeeeeeze.... :shk:

btw, it's very easy to defend the position you're standing on top of.

btw, FF, nice try on trying to edit that ingnorant remark. TO ALL, you can see his IGNORANT REMARK HERE!

Thanks SteveR

AAC

[edit on 10-7-2007 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

Originally posted by jbondo

The order of the day were not Christians.

Christ was against organized religion, period. That is what I was saying that "Christians" don't understand.

Originally posted by marg6043
the king of the Vatican said to its faithfully followers that Christian Churches are not real churches... He is declaring the war ...

You didn't read my post, did you?

Like i said, it's more fun to bash the pope and/or the Catholic faith then to understand the CONTEXT that the statement was made in. Go back and read the entire article. .... and my post.

In Roman Catholicism Apostolic church = THE true church.
Other churches are churches but not 'true churches' ... as in - not apostolic.

It's not that hard to understand ... if you really wanted to understand what he said.

:shk:

Originally posted by FlyersFan
:shk: ya'll didn't bother to read the entire article ... or put the words into context. It's just fun to bash the Catholics ... eh?

It's rather unfortunate, Flyers. While I certainly am not Catholic, my father was Roman Catholic and it pains me to see a once great religion being mocked. Although, I can't say that it didn't bring much of it upon itself, because it did.