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Pope Says, "Christian Churches not real Churches."

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posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 01:48 AM
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Originally posted by Leyla
If thats not organized religion I don't know what is!!


Empire


Yeah yeah I know no one liners... but how else do you say it?

Oh and they have their own "Homeland Security" too

The Jesuits...


The Society of Jesus is a religious order founded by Saint Ignatius Loyola. Designated by him "The Company of Jesus" to indicate its true leader and its soldier spirit, the title was Latinized into "Societas Jesu" in the Bull of Paul III approving its formation and the first formula of its Institute ("Regimini militantis ecclesia", 27 Sept., 1540).


Source

Then add the Knights of Malta (Not the St John's Hospitalers headed by the Queen of England) but the Roman chapter...


The Order of St John of Jerusalem is one of the oldest institutions of Western and Christian civilisation. Present in Palestine in around 1050, it is a lay religious Order, traditionally of military, chivalrous, noble nature...

The Order of Malta remains true to its inspiring principles, summarised in the motto "Tuitio Fidei et Obsequium Pauperum", defence of the Faith and assistance to the poor and the suffering...

Order of Malta, Rome



I see the word "Military" a lot...

As I said 'Empire"





[edit on 13-7-2007 by zorgon]




posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Leyla you gave me a idea,instead of reacting to the Pope's remarks, say people don't give the statement any energy, the negative energy keeps the drama going,


Oh now I like that idea! Maybe like storm clouds if we all wish hard enough it will just go away...


PS We almost had rain the day after I mentioned that.. felt a few drops but it never quite made it.. must try harder next time



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by dbates


Matt 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.”

The pope is no more the head of Christianity than I am. His words mean nothing. Otherwise we would probably call it Popeianity instead of Christianity.

You are so right. He isn't the head of Christianity and i doubt very much he thinks he is. What is is, though, is the head of the CATHOLIC church. hat's quite a difference if you ask me. Though Catholics can be Christians, Christians are not necessarily Catholic. BUT, what i will say is that there are a lot of "Christian" churches out there only in the business of milking money out of their followers. This is something the Catholic church does NOT do. They ask for donations and that's all - you give or you don't - up to you.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by timeless test
The basic concept of Christianity is faith in an omnipresent God. Quite how the Catholic Church can translate this into meaning that God can only be properly worshipped in their special buildings and according to their special rules is something of a mystery.

Mad as a bucket of frogs the lot of them...


Oh brother! another (Mod Edit) - obvious from your post. NOWHERE does it say you have to go into a special building to worship anyone. "as long as three or more are gathered in his name" is all it takes to worship him. YOUR body, not a building, is the temple of the lord. He is in us - (Mod Edit).

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Edited to remove 2 personal attacks

[edit on 13/7/07 by masqua]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 02:17 AM
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Originally posted by dbates
For over a 1,000 years the Roman Catholic Church held it's members hostage by not letting common folk read the Bible in their own language. Thank God for "rebels" like Martin Luther who kicked down some of these barriers.

That was due to PEOPLE and THEIR agendas, not the CATHOLICS. So i guess it would be an intelligent move on anyone's part to try and think in pictures now, The Catholic Church has PEOPLE running the show and did have a thousand years ago, and they had "The Power" and USED it to THEIR own advantage to the DISADVANTAGE of CATHOLICS who ARE normal people. CATHOLICS are NOT the "bad people" that seem to make a lot of people pee in their pants when the word is mentioned, as it so seems due to the amount people that hate Catholics - why? God alone knows cos i doubt they even know themselves.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 02:22 AM
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Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
I agree with what you guys are saying. What I would like to know is what Catholic members think of such an unneccesary bold statement.

I guess the old, "Give them an inch of the truth, and then condition them to guard that inch with thier life and never let anything else in" tactic is still working.


Again i hold up the "Deny Ignorance" banner because it has shown itself so much in this thread. The Pope does not ALWAYS have the best interests of Catholics at heart or in his head. Catholics do NOT follow the POPE, they follow CHRIST just like any other Christian. Catholics are sometimes just as mucgh victims of what the head of the church decides, as the past has proven, as anyone else.

Use a little common sense people. Think a little further than your noses by which a lot seem to be led.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by BugZyZuncle
Also, I am a christian who observes the sabbath on saturday's (actually, Friday sundown to Saturday sundown), because I believe, after reading the Bible, that God never changed the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day!

That is the spirit of the antichrist that chooses to change the times, laws and season's!


Source

"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."


Catholics did NOT change the Sabbath to be a Sunday just because they had nothing better to do or, as per your uneducated comment, due to the antichrist. Dude you need to do some serious research to back up your claims!!!!!!!

Source

Sunday (Day of the Sun), as the name of the first day of the week, is derived from Egyptian astrology. The seven planets, known to us as Saturn, Jupiter, Mars, the Sun, Venus, Mercury, and the Moon, each had an hour of the day assigned to them, and the planet which was regent during the first hour of any day of the week gave its name to that day (see CALENDAR). During the first and second century the week of seven days was introduced into Rome from Egypt, and the Roman names of the planets were given to each successive day. The Teutonic nations seem to have adopted the week as a division of time from the Romans, but they changed the Roman names into those of corresponding Teutonic deities. Hence the dies Solis became Sunday (German, Sonntag). Sunday was the first day of the week according to the Jewish method of reckoning, but for Christians it began to take the place of the Jewish Sabbath in Apostolic times as the day set apart for the public and solemn worship of God. The practice of meeting together on the first day of the week for the celebration of the Eucharistic Sacrifice is indicated in Acts, xx 7; I Cor., xvi, 2; in Apoc., i, 10, it is called the Lord's day. In the Didache (xiv) the injunction is given: "On the Lord's Day come together and break bread. And give thanks...


I shortened the above! There is more you can read if you wish to "Deny Ignorance".



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by NGC2736
But then, I realize that the Catholic church has confession, where people feel the need to discuss their sex lives, so I guess nothing is too personal for some folks.


Now who says they discuss their sex lives? Perhaps you have first hand info or experience? No one is forced to go to confession and one can very well ask God directly for absolution for sins committed. "Deny Ignorance"



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by jbondo
Statues and Idols, praying to saints, working to salvation as apposed to simple crosses or nothing, praying directly to the Father and working from salvation.


PHEW... Lots for work to be done to Deny Ignorance in this thread...

Source

Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate certain people and events, much as Protestant churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas.


Catholics do NOT worship statues. Statues are for remembrance. Praying to the saints - again, ignorance abounds!

Source

in Revelation 5:8, where John depicts the saints in heaven offering our prayers to God under the form of "golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints." But if the saints in heaven are offering our prayers to God, then they must be aware of our prayers. They are aware of our petitions and present them to God by interceding for us.


Kind of like you asking mommy to ask daddy if you can go to the movies. He will MORE likely say yes to her than you. See the idea? Perhaps a bad example but one none the less.

I sometimes wonder about replying for fear that the blatant show of ignorance may impede SOME readers' hopes of gaining anything from the post/source.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 04:20 AM
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Originally posted by shearder

PHEW... Lots for work to be done to Deny Ignorance in this thread...


And your qualified to "straighten us out" because...?

:shk:



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 04:39 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Even if the Pope didn't mean or didn't said that Christian Churches are not real Churches, I find that to be actually with some truth to it.

Just my opinion.

Sadly we see how the Catholic church becomes the target of bashing by none Catholic followers the same way we bash Islam or any other religion in the world that is not like ours regardless what denomination of Christian church we may follow.


marg6043 and flyersfan, I think this catholic bashing is usually always based on ignorance to the truth. I have agreed with what you have both stated ad many will always find a way to discredit the facts and replace with their versions of the truth. I also believe that many so called "churches" will use these tactics as a method to try and strengthen their twisted sense of christianity while at the same time milking people for their hard earned $s



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 04:47 AM
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Originally posted by Equinox99
This is just an excuse for the churches to be united together.
More money for the pope.


How is it you think the pope has money? I can tell you why the church has money - because priests and bishops etc do not get paid huge sums of money and money that is DONATED to the church is not squandered on Mercedes and BMWs and huge houses in LA.

If YOUR church is not rich, tough, the way some operate they soon will be.

[edit on 13/7/2007 by shearder]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 05:00 AM
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Originally posted by uberarcanist
Even as a member of the fundamentalist Church of Christ, I don't think Catholics are going to hell. Why isn't the feeling mutual?

BTW, I don't think the Pope speaks for all Catholics.


BANG!!! Hit the nail on the head. He is like the US President, just because he says something is so DOES NOT mean you have to believe that and you will still follow your OWN beliefs and in turn praising God is NOT praising the Pope. In believing in God (whoever he is to anyone) you do NOT need a bible to believe in a higher, more mighty, power. Your need your own fath and THAt is what will get you in to heaven, not the bible or the pope.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 05:20 AM
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Originally posted by Echo3Foxtrot
How do we know what is written in the bible hasn't been altered in the many times translated? How do we know that it even tells any truth at all?


We already know true meanings of what was written has been lost in translation. It happens everyday when we speak a different language that is not out mother tongue. I can speak Zulu as a language i learned but you also learn that the Zulu word for "put" and "look" are VERY similar and easy mixed up. Something as simple as a one word example should indicate the problems one can face when translating a whole book.

Also, you go ahead with what you believe dude, no one will stop you. Hell if you believe in anything at all that's your prerogative - I for one will not stop you believing or not believing. My feelings and comments in this thread are not to make people catholics or christians.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 05:31 AM
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Originally posted by knows_but_doesnt
I LOVE the Catholic church! Hell, every year we all walk up to the local catholic church and get WASTED at their summer bash thing. Beer, wine, margaritas, and some great barbeque!

Anyone that takes the Catholic church seriously should go back and study history and see how many people they killed and tourtured through the years. I'm not anti-religion by any means, but you would be safe in calling me "anti-catholic" for sure.

A religion built on fear, hatred, racism and MONEY, oh, almost forgot homosexuality, hmm, where do I join? NOT!


Oh here we go again - another (Mod Edit):
You need to understand that things have changed dude, look out the window. It was the order of the day for the church to "run" things and SOME used the power OR rather ABUSED the power. I believe any other faith would have done the SAME at the time had it been them. It was a personal gain thing - it had NOTHING to do with how Catholics believed or believe in God. Racism? Now again, I am assuming you have at least the intelligence of an apple to know that is not one of the teachings of Catholicism. Money? All the money the church gets these days is from donations etc. They do not FORCE you, like some "churches" to tithe! That is a personal thing. I am also, personally against homosexuality but hey, if you have experienced first hand and can support your statement that the church is built on that then i hope it didn't hurt.

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Edit to remove personal attack - U2U sent

[edit on 13/7/07 by masqua]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 05:49 AM
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Hmm... I remember reading that according to the biblical prophecys the vatican would get it's old powers back and together with one or two other major powers reak havock on our world.
I guess what I've been brought up to believe is unfolding in front of our eyes!

I hate it when I can say "told you so!".
Sometimes I wish I was wrong... Would make life nicer!



Sammy

p.s. NWO will be the next step: please not another "told you so!" Please!
(Here how I think it's already nearly in place!)



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 05:53 AM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by shearder

PHEW... Lots for work to be done to Deny Ignorance in this thread...


And your qualified to "straighten us out" because...?

:shk:

Who said i was qualified - though I am Catholic. Certainly not I; nor did I say that I would be the one to "straighten" anyone out. What I have done though, in case you missed it, is add some info, from external where applicable, as to why some people's comments have no substance like the one about confession and sexual discussion - that's a personal swing on their part.

So again something read out of nothing? Do you feel you were being straightened out? Are you in fear of that possibility - that someone would want to straighten you out?

I have a little more intelligence than some who climb on the band wagon and bash a religion they actually know little or nothing about. I will defend what i can - that's logical (well to me) and it does not mean i had to study it at university to get a qualification. Like saying rape is wrong? Why do i think or know that - because i went to university to get a qualification so say that? Nope, it's just something i learned and believe - perhaps another bad example but you should get the jest of it.

[edit on 13/7/2007 by shearder]



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 07:11 AM
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An apology:

In all sincerity and in good faith, I did, as perhaps noticed, take a lot of comments personally and I should have not done so. Should I have made personal attacks - please accept my apologies, to any and all, for posting in haste and not considering my words used on a personal level.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Shadowflux
Flyers, You are a troll of the highest order ... Thanks for hijacking and derailing this thread.


Riiiiiiiiiight. I'm coming on here and proving the Catholic bashers wrong ... and that's being a 'troll' and 'derailing'? HA HA HA HA You just don't like that this isn't a mindless anti-Catholic free-for-all.


Originally posted by undo
So rather than list off a volley of verses in contradiction to FF's, I'm going to take it on the chin, and walk away.

I, too, hate scripture spitting contests. Anyone can find anything they want in Sacred Scripture to uphold ANY position. Scripture spitting becomes useless. Your response here is very mature, undo.



Originally posted by biggie smalls
Humans are INFALLIBLE. Any book written will be INFALLIBLE. That is reality.

I think you mean fallible. All humans and human created things are prone to error. AND the Catholic Church believes this as well.


Originally posted by Leyla
These popes who think their all high and mighty with ...

The pope was doing his job. He was stating the Catholic position and educating Catholics on the faith. If you don't like it ... don't listen.


Originally posted by Leyla
Who are they to tell us that the Catholic church is the only true church.

Again - the pope was doing his job. He is the head of the Catholic Church and he was stating the Catholic position - AS HE'S SUPPOSED TO. Also - every church on the planet thinks 'they are the true church' and that they have interpreted everything correctly. EVERY ONE.


Originally posted by dbates
For over a 1,000 years the Roman Catholic Church held it's members hostage by not letting common folk read the Bible in their own language.

Wrong. Common folks COULDN'T READ ANYTHING .. latin or their own language. The Catholic Church had bibles in the universities and libraries. Anyone who could read had access to them. The Catholic church didn't withhold books from the common folks - the problem was that common folks couldn't read at all.


Thank God for "rebels" like Martin Luther who kicked down some of these barriers.

Oh yeah .. thank God for Martin Luther
Here's a really great quote from the fella you are thanking God for - "If the wife is unwilling, then take the maid". Yep .. he said that if the wife didn't want to have sex then you should rape the house maid. The guy was a complete perv.



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 10:17 AM
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If you guys want to feel that my assessment of Flyers is wrong then you're allowed to feel that way. Contrary to a few posts on here I've actually been preaching the acceptance of all people's beliefs. I just don't like it when someone comes in and starts debating (read arguing) with every poster on the board using opinion and invalid information as "fact".

I should learn to stay out of the religious discussions. No matter how accepting of other's my posts are I always get labeled something. Here I'm being labeled a "Catholic Basher" even though I haven't bashed anyone. Last time, I was called a "Catholic Priest" as if it was some horrible sin. I think some people just go on the theory that if they yell loud enough for long enough they'll be right.

I stand by what I've said, I enjoy the fact that people feel the need to jump right on me but ignore Flyer's twisting of my words. Maybe it's my fault,I've recently lost a lot of patience with people who try and drag me into long protracted arguments over semantics and I tend to cut it off before it happens.

I'm not really going to say anything more because my words seem to be falling on deaf ears. I think people see a theological thread and start drooling for an argument.

I refuted Flyer's statements, the idea that a common man would be able to read the Bible before Luther, the idea that the Catholic Church is right due to Apostolic Succession, FF's statement that the Anglican Church was the first protestant church, everything FF said against me was refuted cordially and logically. I even showed how FF negated his/her own statements but apparently it wasn't enough that I was polite and patient.

FF just replied to my post by twisting my words and using yet more inaccuracies and poor logic. FF's best evidence against me is that I'm "A Catholic bashing Chick fan". I get handed Chick comics when I'm on the subway and they're freakin hilarious, I never said I follow what they say.

What part of FF's info was edifying and contributive? The lies about the availability of a Bible or the misinformation about the Anglican church?

How is it that I'm a "Catholic Basher" looking to fight with Catholics in this thread and a "Catholic Priest" pushing propaganda and dogma in another?

Oh well, I honestly don't care enough anymore at this point. The applause I received from the mods for my posts in this thread seems to indicate they appreciated my contributions.


The Pope is wrong, our relationship with the Creator is personal, I'm done.



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