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Pope Says, "Christian Churches not real Churches."

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posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 05:53 PM
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After thinking about what would transpire in this thread if I were to "Dispell" the notions presented by FlyersFan, I concluded that it would collapse into a "that's not how I see it" debate, which is what it literally boils down to when the verses start flying left and right and the thing takes on its own personality. That's really not the topic of the thread. I don't hold any personal anomosity against FlyersFan. I can see by the "Jack Chick" comments that this subject is very sensitive issue. which means it's not an edifying conversation, whatsoever. Just a spitting contest.

So rather than list off a volley of verses in contradiction to FF's, I'm going to take it on the chin, and walk away.




posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 06:23 PM
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I can sum up my entire feeling about God in one sentence:



You ain't gotta go to church to get to know your God.





No matter what religion tells you, preachers, rabbis...

God is WITHIN, always has been. You do not need to look at holy books in your search for truth.

There will always be truth outside of organized religion.



In my opinion, whenever God is used as a political or social manipulation tool, I just shut off.

Believers in God, keep your faith. Just know you don't need a fallible man such as the Pope to tell you what/what not to do.

Nor do you need a book where parts were written up to 5000 years ago.


Use your own good judgment and morals.


Look within, you may find something surprising...your own divinity!


You can decide on your own, use your own conscience that God gave you to use.




A God given right is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Where do you think the founding fathers got this idea from?



Just to reiterate:






YOU AIN'T GOTTA GO TO CHURCH TO GET TO KNOW YOUR GOD!

[edit on 12-7-2007 by biggie smalls]



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 06:26 PM
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Originally posted by biggie smalls
You ain't gotta go to church to get to know your God.


To bad the religions do not know this fact... they might stop killing each other in the name of God...




posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 06:31 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

To bad the religions do not know this fact... they might stop killing each other in the name of God...


Yes I am well aware of that fact. I am not sure humanity in general is intelligent enough to listen to their own inner voice as they've neglected it for so long.


I have always listened to my self before anything else. I may act without thinking on occasion, but I listen to my gut and my conscience during the event.


I do not need a book to dictate morals for me. I happen to be a very moral person if you will without a set of written laws. I find that just distracts people.


For instance, we have many silly laws in the US as well as the Church. Two men cannot be married under the Catholic jurisdiction, yet there are priests molesting small children (boys mainly). This contradiction strikes me right in the heart. How can this be?


The Church has ignored human instinct for too long now, as well as Mosque's and Temple's, etc etc ad infinity. Humans are INFALLIBLE. Any book written will be INFALLIBLE. That is reality. We must come to terms with that.


Once we realize we must change our ways, great things will happen for us.


Heck, for you bible thumpers, maybe even Christ will return!

That is, after everyone truly repents each and every last sin...whether to themselves or their 'priest' they so strongly believe in.


Note: I am not attacking religion here. I am merely pointing out the obvious hypocrisy of certain behaviors and wish you all to question your own beliefs.


Why look to a stone building for guidance (or a piece of paper) when you can find it within a living testament to God's love and grace? Yourself. Do it, I dare you.


There was a thread on bts, still may be circulating called 'biblebookdead' and something about this book is living. 'Som' (Son of Man) was looking for truth and found it in the most random places. He did not need to look into a book or a priests' heart to find it.

He found it within.

I can't find the thread now, but I found another equally interesting one about the Dead Sea Scrolls:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

These books are considered 'Apocrypha' in the Catholic faith as it was not included in the bible. Does this mean they are false? No. It means the authors of the bible not include them because the truth would be too perverse and unknown to many 'simpletons' they were trying to preach to.




[edit on 12-7-2007 by biggie smalls]



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 07:17 PM
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I agree with you for the most part biggie smalls, but you are generalizing the wants for some individuals that like to attend church. Realistically speaking, people are still going to attend church even if you want them to or not, it's too embedded into the ideology of established religion, which is therefore adhered by religious followers. Some people feel that they "need" to go to church to find god, and I won't argue with them, if that helps that person come closer to god, that's good for them.

I see your point regarding the spiritual connection an individual has with god should be a preceding factor before any established religion, but after thousands of years of religious establishments, it would be a very long time before your suggested philosophy would become the majority.

Maybe it is that "stone building" that keeps some people from acting immorally. Maybe it is that "book" that keeps people from acting out violently...etc. My point is not that your philosophy is wrong, I for the most part agree with you, but that civilization is slow to adapt to what you suggested, and perhaps that individual is slow to adapt as well.

I live in the U.S., and I'm thankful that we do have religious freedom, for if not, we would have a singular religious monopoly over the country. Talk about taking away your freedom of speech...



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 07:21 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by biggie smalls
You ain't gotta go to church to get to know your God.


To bad the religions do not know this fact... they might stop killing each other in the name of God...


Regretably, I think you'll find that quite a few folk have endeavoured to pont this out over the years. I think Biggie would have been labelled a gnostic heretic and burnt at the stake, in ages past. Noawadays the label woud probably be something demeaning involving the words new and age, and just get you flamed at the post (geddit?).

www.gnosis.org...



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 07:27 PM
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Originally posted by Karilla
I think Biggie would have been labelled a gnostic heretic and burnt at the stake, in ages past.

www.gnosis.org...


So would I most likely.
If I lived during the time of the inquisition, i doubt if I would have ever lived to of seen the age of twenty, and certainly not my current age of thirty. I would have long since been charcoal.



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 07:34 PM
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The original christians were followers of the "way."

Jesus is the way I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh to the Father but by me."

Plain and simple you will know a true christian because they LOVE.



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by biggie smalls

Yes I am well aware of that fact. I am not sure humanity in general is intelligent enough to listen to their own inner voice as they've neglected it for so long.


Personally I don't think its a question of humanity being intelligent enough, more that most are not yet ready to understand. My favorite analogy is that the Earth is a Kindergarten for the soul, and only a very few each year "graduate to the next level.

So rather than try to win the battle over which Church is right, or which version of God is the correct one... simply take on one soul at a time and teach what you can...

The rest will follow eventually..... or not


Fortunately today greater numbers are beginning to see the path today than in the past, and they will then realize that all the bickering and killing is pointless, that each one has their own path to follow



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by zorgon
Fortunately today greater numbers are beginning to see the path today than in the past, and they will then realize that all the bickering and killing is pointless, that each one has their own path to follow


Unless, of course, others stand in the way of your own personal growth and development, in which case a staunch defensive stance would be necessary!



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 08:40 PM
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Fortunately today greater numbers are beginning to see the path today than in the past, and they will then realize that all the bickering and killing is pointless, that each one has their own path to follow


that can't happen soon enough, we will always find something to argue about, maybe that is what Jesus meant by turn the other check, more like Live and let live, why we must impose on one another I don't understand.

can't we all just accept that perhaps all paths lead to the same source?

[edit on 12-7-2007 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by Stormdancer777
can't we all just accept that perhaps all paths lead to the same source?


To simple... Humans hate simplicity

Also if we did not have strife and bad times to help us get to the truth, the prize would have little substance. When the fighting is done, we will appreciate the peace



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 10:05 PM
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Originally posted by douglas2k4
Realistically speaking, people are still going to attend church even if you want them to or not, it's too embedded into the ideology of established religion, which is therefore adhered by religious followers. Some people feel that they "need" to go to church to find god, and I won't argue with them, if that helps that person come closer to god, that's good for them.

But after thousands of years of religious establishments, it would be a very long time before your suggested philosophy would become the majority.

Maybe it is that "stone building" that keeps some people from acting immorally. Maybe it is that "book" that keeps people from acting out violently...etc. My point is not that your philosophy is wrong, I for the most part agree with you, but that civilization is slow to adapt to what you suggested, and perhaps that individual is slow to adapt as well.



Thanks for the response. I feel your sentiment. That's why I stay far away from organized religions. There are too many pitfalls and traps that one can fall into.

While there are countless ignorant atheists, there are an equal number of theists. To blindly follow a religious order that has murdered thousands if not millions of people (Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism...none are scot free, they all have killed in the name of their 'God' or lack of God) for me is wrong.

I follow what I think is right. I use my own intuition and heart to do my thinking for me.

Spirit connects all. We must try to commune with our true nature more readily. Maybe then we'll be able to see divinity in everyone.




Originally posted by Karilla
Regretably, I think you'll find that quite a few folk have endeavoured to pont this out over the years. I think Biggie would have been labelled a gnostic heretic and burnt at the stake, in ages past. Noawadays the label woud probably be something demeaning involving the words new and age, and just get you flamed at the post (geddit?).

www.gnosis.org...


Thank you Karilla for reminding me of the gnostic texts. I just quickly surfed through that website and found some useful information for my own evolution.

I guess I am a gnostic after all...Nothing 'new age' about that
.

I've already been burned at the stake in this life (figuratively speaking). I can definitely see a past life where I suffered greatly because of my views. #, I suffer now because of how I view reality on occasion
. I suffer due to my own ignorance. Other's ignorance does not harm as much as it does traps me in my ego even more.

The worse things I see sometimes, the deeper in depression I become. That doesn't help me out a bit...

Haha, I liked your analogy 'flamed at the post.' Good one
.




Speaker, we would have been hung next to each other in the castle square
.




Originally posted by zorgon
Most are not yet ready to understand. My favorite analogy is that the Earth is a Kindergarten for the soul, and only a very few each year "graduate to the next level.

So rather than try to win the battle over which Church is right, or which version of God is the correct one... simply take on one soul at a time and teach what you can...

Fortunately today greater numbers are beginning to see the path today than in the past, and they will then realize that all the bickering and killing is pointless, that each one has their own path to follow


I agree with you. I think we may be graduating high school now though (some of us anyway). We are still picking our battles unwisely, but there are a lot of resurgence of spirituality in the past hundred years.

We are reconnecting with Spirit and it feels great!!!

I bolded the part of your post that I feel most strongly with. Thanks for the incite
.




Originally posted by Stormdancer777
can't we all just accept that perhaps all paths lead to the same source?



Amen brother. Well said.

'All paths lead to Rome...' Or salvation from ignorance and hate...

LOVE is the answer.

No, its not a new age thing
.



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 10:13 PM
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Sorry if this sounds like a rant- Do you know what makes me mad?
These popes who think their all high and mighty with their fancy garbs and 24 carat gold robes pretending to be holier then thou. Their getting a bit too big for their own good. When a church group has their own city and government thats asking for nothing but trouble!! If thats not organized religion I don't know what is!!



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 11:01 PM
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Originally posted by Leyla
Sorry if this sounds like a rant- Do you know what makes me mad?
These popes who think their all high and mighty with their fancy garbs and 24 carat gold robes pretending to be holier then thou. Their getting a bit too big for their own good. When a church group has their own city and government thats asking for nothing but trouble!! If thats not organized religion I don't know what is!!


I don't understand why you are mad. As I stated in an earlier thread there are many ways to worship God. There are many religions and also many believers who choose not to belong to an organized relegion. There is pleanty of room for all of them. Nobody has a franchise on God....Do it whatever way feels right to you.

Nobody says you have to agree with the Catholic church. I may not like some thing about other churces....so what.

Let your conscience be your guide. I just don't see any reason for the anger you have. All the robes, glitter and Vatican city don't have any impact on you.

There is more than enough hate in this world. Let's not argue about how we choose to worship God.

Let it go and just enjoy life.



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 11:06 PM
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To simple... Humans hate simplicity


Yes I have noticed that?


>>Also if we did not have strife and bad times to help us get to the truth, the prize would have little substance. When the fighting is done, we will appreciate the peace

OH I will have to think about this one, I am tired of fighting.

[edit on 12-7-2007 by Stormdancer777]



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 11:23 PM
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Originally posted by duster


I don't understand why you are mad. As I stated in an earlier thread there are many ways to worship God. There are many religions and also many believers who choose not to belong to an organized relegion. There is pleanty of room for all of them. Nobody has a franchise on God....Do it whatever way feels right to you.

Nobody says you have to agree with the Catholic church. I may not like some thing about other churces....so what.

Let your conscience be your guide. I just don't see any reason for the anger you have. All the robes, glitter and Vatican city don't have any impact on you.

There is more than enough hate in this world. Let's not argue about how we choose to worship God.

Let it go and just enjoy life.


Oh I'm not arguing on how people worship God- I'm mad about the fancy pants in Rome.

Who are they to tell us that the Catholic church is the only true church.

God want us to be true not to be corrupted by power and riches..

But Duster your are right- this world is has enough hate- Thanks for the advice.


Never mind the catholic church- it only matters whats in your heart.



posted on Jul, 12 2007 @ 11:35 PM
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>Never mind the catholic church- it only matters whats in your heart.

Leyla you gave me a idea,instead of reacting to the Pope's remarks, say people don't give the statement any energy, the negative energy keeps the drama going,



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 01:19 AM
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Originally posted by KarillaI think Biggie would have been labelled a gnostic heretic and burnt at the stake, in ages past.


No with ideas like that he would have been part of a Secret Order
Gnostics did quite well at keeping hidden



Noawadays the label woud probably be something demeaning involving the words new and age, and just get you flamed at the post (geddit?).


Now THAT was hilarious



posted on Jul, 13 2007 @ 01:24 AM
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Originally posted by uberarcanist
Unless, of course, others stand in the way of your own personal growth and development, in which case a staunch defensive stance would be necessary!


True enough... a thus began the Crusades and the Jihads



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